Killzone 2

Uncompetative

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shadow skill said:
PC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Console for one reason and one reason only when it comes to FPS Bullshit like this is easily rectifiable [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.85920] in just about every PC shooter I have ever played. I don't have to deal with some crackhead's idea of what makes a good layout. I hope to god that what I talk about in the link turns out to be an error.
Are you sure you couldn't adjust to using:

ALTERNATE 2

L1 - Zoom, Hold not Toggle
L2 - Crouch, Hold not Toggle
L3 - Sprint

D-pad- L/R/Down - Inventory, D-pad-Up - Objectives

Left Analogue - Movement

R1 - Fire
R2 - Grenade
R3 - Close Combat

^ - Swap Weapon
[ ] - Reload/Pick up weapon (Hold)
O - Use
X - Jump

Right Analogue - Look, (Invert Y Axis).

But, I agree with your general complaint. I was hoping that the 360's NXE would let you customize the controls/settings for each game in a unified way. Maybe they will get this right with the next console as it may well need more liaison with the developers to get it to work. As to the game it seems to lack originality:


But then the exact same thing could be said about Halo - (Colonial Marines/Gun from Aliens, Invisible Elites from Predator, Hunters are Ice Hockey goalies, Grunts are Gonzo from the Muppets, Halo from Larry Niven's Ringworld, etc.). When are developers going to ditch WWII and come up with some genuinely new ideas? Bioshock was too easy, Mirror's Edge felt better without guns and Far Cry 2 was flawed...
 

shadow skill

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No my aim will be totally nonexistant. I never even used to play console shooters until Black came along. I tried playing COD4 with the broken southpaw layout and all I got for it was cramps.... I am not going to suffer through shit aim, or break my thumbs just to play a game. Especially not when only consoles have this problem. Hell I can buy real guns that are ambidexterous/left handed if I wanted to.
 

Uncompetative

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scnj said:
While I don't wanna add flames to the debate, I've always found FPS games easier to play with a controller than a mouse and keyboard setup. And I know all the PC elitists think I'm wrong, but I don't care because I like what I like.
I just wonder how many mouse and keyboard zealots have experienced the control scheme for Goldeneye 007 on the N64. Being able to hold the left shoulder button to Aim will make your targeting reticle (crosshair) float freely around the screen, much like a mouse. Also, in this mode the D-pad can be used to lean Left and Right from out of cover as in order to balance the increased speed and accuracy of Aim mode you were temporarily unable to move. I think the only advantage the mouse has is it is easier to 'spin around' by making big sweeps across your desk. Yet, that brings me to my final point... I don't like playing games at a desk. I work at a desktop computer, I don't want to relax in the same posture with all my unfinished work just a few clicks away. So, sofa and TV for me.

Also there is no risk of me spilling beer all over my keyboard.



When you get good you can turn the reticle off...
 

shadow skill

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Uncompetative said:
scnj said:
While I don't wanna add flames to the debate, I've always found FPS games easier to play with a controller than a mouse and keyboard setup. And I know all the PC elitists think I'm wrong, but I don't care because I like what I like.
I just wonder how many mouse and keyboard zealots have experienced the control scheme for Goldeneye 007 on the N64. Being able to hold the left shoulder button to Aim will make your targeting reticle (crosshair) float freely around the screen, much like a mouse. Also, in this mode the D-pad can be used to lean Left and Right from out of cover as in order to balance the increased speed and accuracy of Aim mode you were temporarily unable to move. I think the only advantage the mouse has is it is easier to 'spin around' by making big sweeps across your desk. Yet, that brings me to my final point... I don't like playing games at a desk. I work at a desktop computer, I don't want to relax in the same posture with all my unfinished work just a few clicks away. So, sofa and TV for me.

Also there is no risk of me spilling beer all over my keyboard.



When you get good you can turn the reticle off...
This is another layout that is all but forgotten in modern games (The Goldeneye layout is refered to as Legacy, and Legacy southpaw for the southpaw variant naturally.) though some people absolutely swear by it for shooters I think I only ever used it one time outside of Goldeneye. I honestly believe that this control scheme gets close to the difficulty of drawing a square with one hand and a circle with the other, something that most human beings cannot do. Incidentally this is the kind of layout that should have been used for Mirror's Edge since strafing is quite useless in that game since it slows you down so much. Turning should have been on the same stick as forward and backward motion. Then there is the fact that using this type of layout would make it possible to quickly turn hit slow mo, disarm without surrendering control of Faith's body.

I didn't know you could lean in that game...Certainly seems like an efficient use of the Dpad.
 

Uncompetative

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shadow skill said:
Uncompetative said:
scnj said:
While I don't wanna add flames to the debate, I've always found FPS games easier to play with a controller than a mouse and keyboard setup. And I know all the PC elitists think I'm wrong, but I don't care because I like what I like.
I just wonder how many mouse and keyboard zealots have experienced the control scheme for Goldeneye 007 on the N64. Being able to hold the left shoulder button to Aim will make your targeting reticle (crosshair) float freely around the screen, much like a mouse. Also, in this mode the D-pad can be used to lean Left and Right from out of cover as in order to balance the increased speed and accuracy of Aim mode you were temporarily unable to move. I think the only advantage the mouse has is it is easier to 'spin around' by making big sweeps across your desk. Yet, that brings me to my final point... I don't like playing games at a desk. I work at a desktop computer, I don't want to relax in the same posture with all my unfinished work just a few clicks away. So, sofa and TV for me.

Also there is no risk of me spilling beer all over my keyboard.



When you get good you can turn the reticle off...
This is another layout that is all but forgotten in modern games (The Goldeneye layout is refered to as Legacy, and Legacy southpaw for the southpaw variant naturally.) though some people absolutely swear by it for shooters I think I only ever used it one time outside of Goldeneye. I honestly believe that this control scheme gets close to the difficulty of drawing a square with one hand and a circle with the other, something that most human beings cannot do. Incidentally this is the kind of layout that should have been used for Mirror's Edge since strafing is quite useless in that game since it slows you down so much. Turning should have been on the same stick as forward and backward motion. Then there is the fact that using this type of layout would make it possible to quickly turn hit slow mo, disarm without surrendering control of Faith's body.

I didn't know you could lean in that game...Certainly seems like an efficient use of the Dpad.
Yes, I forgot that the default control scheme was weird like that. Everyone I know switches to 1.2 Solitaire almost immediately, or uses two controllers so that you actually have dual analog sticks. So, Solitaire would be:

D-pad - Move/Strafe (although you can use the yellow C-buttons on the Right Hand Side)
Stick - Look/Turn (and when the left shoulder button is held: floating Aiming reticle, etc.)

More details on this than you would ever care to know follow...

http://uk.gamespot.com/n64/action/goldeneye007/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-43662582&pid=197462

By the way, the developers forgot what they had got when they made Timesplitters. Although, it seems similar, the fact that it allows you to move whilst aiming ruins the scheme in my opinion. The original scheme came about because Rare doubted they could only do it "on-rails" like Time-Crisis. So, they implemented a Stick as Lightgun scheme. Then when they found that they could freely move the viewpoint, they kept this "pick targets off the screen" headshots mode as something for the player to uncover once they had tired of "run & gun" antics.

You make a very good point about Mirror's Edge. I had wondered about a dual thumbstick scheme where you had:

Left Stick: Move/Turn feet
Right Stick: Look/Turn head

Holding the Left Trigger part way would make the Left Stick Strafe (instead of Turn), holding it all the way down would make you stand still and temporarily enter a Goldeneye-style Aiming mode with any movement of the Left Stick now translating to a Lean; including a lean forward & back (so you wouldn't necessarily look down over a railing at a low target, but bend the top half of your avatar's body forward so the floor was brought up into your field of view.

Although, it sounds complicated, it does mean that vehicles steer with the Left Stick, so there is no adjustment to make there.
 

shadow skill

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harhol said:
Goldeneye has the most unintuitive control setup of any game I've ever played...

...Actually, come to think of it, the N64 controller was just a nightmare all round.
There is a perverse kind of logic to Goldeneye's controls really.


Uncompetative said:
shadow skill said:
Uncompetative said:
scnj said:
While I don't wanna add flames to the debate, I've always found FPS games easier to play with a controller than a mouse and keyboard setup. And I know all the PC elitists think I'm wrong, but I don't care because I like what I like.
I just wonder how many mouse and keyboard zealots have experienced the control scheme for Goldeneye 007 on the N64. Being able to hold the left shoulder button to Aim will make your targeting reticle (crosshair) float freely around the screen, much like a mouse. Also, in this mode the D-pad can be used to lean Left and Right from out of cover as in order to balance the increased speed and accuracy of Aim mode you were temporarily unable to move. I think the only advantage the mouse has is it is easier to 'spin around' by making big sweeps across your desk. Yet, that brings me to my final point... I don't like playing games at a desk. I work at a desktop computer, I don't want to relax in the same posture with all my unfinished work just a few clicks away. So, sofa and TV for me.

Also there is no risk of me spilling beer all over my keyboard.



When you get good you can turn the reticle off...
This is another layout that is all but forgotten in modern games (The Goldeneye layout is refered to as Legacy, and Legacy southpaw for the southpaw variant naturally.) though some people absolutely swear by it for shooters I think I only ever used it one time outside of Goldeneye. I honestly believe that this control scheme gets close to the difficulty of drawing a square with one hand and a circle with the other, something that most human beings cannot do. Incidentally this is the kind of layout that should have been used for Mirror's Edge since strafing is quite useless in that game since it slows you down so much. Turning should have been on the same stick as forward and backward motion. Then there is the fact that using this type of layout would make it possible to quickly turn hit slow mo, disarm without surrendering control of Faith's body.

I didn't know you could lean in that game...Certainly seems like an efficient use of the Dpad.
Yes, I forgot that the default control scheme was weird like that. Everyone I know switches to 1.2 Solitaire almost immediately, or uses two controllers so that you actually have dual analog sticks. So, Solitaire would be:

D-pad - Move/Strafe (although you can use the yellow C-buttons on the Right Hand Side)
Stick - Look/Turn (and when the left shoulder button is held: floating Aiming reticle, etc.)

More details on this than you would ever care to know follow...

http://uk.gamespot.com/n64/action/goldeneye007/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-43662582&pid=197462

By the way, the developers forgot what they had got when they made Timesplitters. Although, it seems similar, the fact that it allows you to move whilst aiming ruins the scheme in my opinion. The original scheme came about because Rare doubted they could only do it "on-rails" like Time-Crisis. So, they implemented a Stick as Lightgun scheme. Then when they found that they could freely move the viewpoint, they kept this "pick targets off the screen" headshots mode as something for the player to uncover once they had tired of "run & gun" antics.

You make a very good point about Mirror's Edge. I had wondered about a dual thumbstick scheme where you had:

Left Stick: Move/Turn feet
Right Stick: Look/Turn head

Holding the Left Trigger part way would make the Left Stick Strafe (instead of Turn), holding it all the way down would make you stand still and temporarily enter a Goldeneye-style Aiming mode with any movement of the Left Stick now translating to a Lean; including a lean forward & back (so you wouldn't necessarily look down over a railing at a low target, but bend the top half of your avatar's body forward so the floor was brought up into your field of view.

Although, it sounds complicated, it does mean that vehicles steer with the Left Stick, so there is no adjustment to make there.
I made the point in another thread that Mirror's Edge should have had a way for you to stretch your arms to judge the height of objects in the world your pressure sensitive lean system could be adapted to allow such functionality. One could even pull it off and preserve your suggeted mechanism for leaning by sticking the arm stretch action on to a thumbstick button. I also never got the lack of a centre camera button in Mirror's Edge, the game pretty much required that you position the camera perfectly, besides the human head will always naturally square itself when in motion.

I honestly do not think game developers are human given what they do to us sometimes.
 

Uncompetative

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shadow skill said:
I made the point in another thread that Mirror's Edge should have had a way for you to stretch your arms to judge the height of objects in the world your pressure sensitive lean system could be adapted to allow such functionality. One could even pull it off and preserve your suggeted mechanism for leaning by sticking the arm stretch action on to a thumbstick button. I also never got the lack of a centre camera button in Mirror's Edge, the game pretty much required that you position the camera perfectly, besides the human head will always naturally square itself when in motion.

I honestly do not think game developers are human given what they do to us sometimes.
Sounds interesting. I'm hopeful they do a Mirror's Edge 2 with an open-world package-delivery mini game and GTA style wanted level - i.e. you could take it slow and avoid security, or get noticed (or get physical) and get the cops onto you. Points would be collected Kudos style for smooth Parkour (like in Project Gotham Racing), but you could also play it roughly (and violently) in order to get a low delivery time on the leaderboard. Kills would aid your forward progress, but would not be added to your score.

This may even work in Multiplayer, with rival delivery firms trying to get the best times - i.e. clan play.