Killzone 3 Trailer Will Freeze Your Butt Off

[Treblaine]

This is starting to look strikingly similar to Gears of War.

You mean a shooter about space marines looks similar to a shooter about space marines? Preposterous!

Gears of War isn't about Marines.

beginning of gears 1 Dom welcomes Marcus back who replies "good to be back in the Army"

And as far as I know they never go into space, so they are more... land... army... guys. They they DO look and act a like like WarHammer 40'000's infamous "SPEHSS MAHREENZ!" who seem to be the prototype for most burly quasi-fascistic sci-fi infantry since 1987.


though I suppose Robert A. Heinlein is grandfather to them all, and set the template as Space Marines with fascistic undertones and legendary badassery.

ISA come from space, in and landing craft (very Marine like) and I heard several of them give the "Huuoo Auuurrgh" that US Marines always do.

BUT, I'd say they fit more of the "James Cameron's Aliens" type of Colonial Marines[/i], normal body proportions, more eccentric personalities, easier going, fly by the seat of their pants as the shit goes down while one of them yelling something like
"Game over, man, GAME OVER! They're coming through the fucking walls!"

While a Space Marine would just grunt and charge at it yelling "WE FAAAUUGHTT FUUR THAA EMPRAAA!!!"

So going by those trope-a-dopes:

The characters in Killzone are Colonial Marines going by the common trope.

The characters in Gears of War fit the Space Marine trope.

Even though space and/or colonies may not be directly related to either.

It's not ripping off each other, they're both riffing on a trope that dates back to 1939!

 

[DigitalSushi]

-snip-

That would explain why my stupidly expensive LG HDTV with a "gaming" setting has got no lag?, KillZone 2 also uses a lot of smoke and mirrors in its online to mask lag, like using momentum as a smokescreen to why your avatar isn't moving quite as fast as you think he should (thats what I meant by momentum).

Also the melee looks like the cool down animation will mask the input lag, much like in God of War.

I actually completed the single player campaign without the patches to see what all the fuss was about, sure there was input lag but the game was perfectly playable on the hardest setting, although I used to play online with dial up when everyone else was on broadband and I seemed to learn how to compensate for lag (with an old IR mouse too, I was young and thought they were cool).

Those VR things actually exasperates lag since your brain is trying to figure out where the fuck it is, its like every frame your mind goes "uncanny valley!" then process's the info, in real world with pneumatic instruments that suffer lag and mechanical problems, no such problems, although mechanical problems sometimes have a by product of people dying. The problem with those science shows is that its a weird beard type guy taking notes out of data, not assessing if the pilot's mind thought of the given situation.

Sorry to snip your comment, hope you don't think I was being obnoxious, I did a preview and it was getting crowded.

Also DigitalFoundry!, I love those articles! whoop whoop.

 

[Treblaine]

Being honest, I'm no way near as hyped as I was for Killzone 2 after seeing the original trailer. Sure, it looks good etc etc, but I just think as good as it'll probably be, it's not going to be doing anything different enough for me to get excited.
1, 2, shoot helghan, 3, 4 take cover, 5, 6, shoot another and so on.

Take cover? You're doing it wrong!

Killzone 2 has a crap cover mechanic and a VERY generous aim-lock and aim assist, just charge away or get flanking. Remember, you just have to get the reticule NEAR then then hold aim-down-sights and it snaps to centre mass. You get a good rhythm of tap-aim->shoot-burst, it's the key behind "quick-scoping".

And the one-hit-kill knife combined with how if you close in the helghast are more likely to try (and fail) to whack you with their rifle, means kicking ass in Killzone 2 is all about closing in to get up close and personal.

I love the grenades too. Lack of variety is compensated by excellent the sound and visual feedback makes it so easy to cook grenades, I couldn't do it well enough in COD4 but in Killzone 2 I got really good at tossing them just in the general direction of Helghast so they explode in mid air, no worried about bouncing or them diving away. Just remember to move in quick to melee any dazed-and-confused survivors. The stun radius of grenades is wide.

 

[Treblaine]

-snip-

That would explain why my stupidly expensive LG HDTV with a "gaming" setting has got no lag?, KillZone 2 also uses a lot of smoke and mirrors in its online to mask lag, like using momentum as a smokescreen to why your avatar isn't moving quite as fast as you think he should (thats what I meant by momentum).

Also the melee looks like the cool down animation will mask the input lag, much like in God of War.

I actually completed the single player campaign without the patches to see what all the fuss was about, sure there was input lag but the game was perfectly playable on the hardest setting, although I used to play online with dial up when everyone else was on broadband and I seemed to learn how to compensate for lag (with an old IR mouse too, I was young and thought they were cool).

Those VR things actually exasperates lag since your brain is trying to figure out where the fuck it is, its like every frame your mind goes "uncanny valley!" then process's the info, in real world with pneumatic instruments that suffer lag and mechanical problems, no such problems, although mechanical problems sometimes have a by product of people dying. The problem with those science shows is that its a weird beard type guy taking notes out of data, not assessing if the pilot's mind thought of the given situation.

Sorry to snip your comment, hope you don't think I was being obnoxious, I did a preview and it was getting crowded.

Also DigitalFoundry!, I love those articles! whoop whoop.

LG HDTV in "gaming mode" probably turns off all image processing (which is pointless most of the time anyway), that is the cause of input lag on most HDTVs, fucking around with the colour and sharpness, also trying fancy shit with the scaling.

Don't know what you mean by Melee cool down animation, lag would be noticeable in how it take longer than expected to start. Also I am not sure how lag works with online, peer-to-peer networks are notoriously hard to analyse.

When I said VR, I meant just like a flight simulator on a computer but a custom built program. It shouldn't matter what is going on in their head, the point is measuring how much lag MOST people can compensate for. There are exceptions to the rule, some are more sensitive, some are more resistant. iIt's an objective measurement and uncanny valley didn't come into it.

 

[DigitalSushi]

-snip-

That would explain why my stupidly expensive LG HDTV with a "gaming" setting has got no lag?, KillZone 2 also uses a lot of smoke and mirrors in its online to mask lag, like using momentum as a smokescreen to why your avatar isn't moving quite as fast as you think he should (thats what I meant by momentum).

Also the melee looks like the cool down animation will mask the input lag, much like in God of War.

I actually completed the single player campaign without the patches to see what all the fuss was about, sure there was input lag but the game was perfectly playable on the hardest setting, although I used to play online with dial up when everyone else was on broadband and I seemed to learn how to compensate for lag (with an old IR mouse too, I was young and thought they were cool).

Those VR things actually exasperates lag since your brain is trying to figure out where the fuck it is, its like every frame your mind goes "uncanny valley!" then process's the info, in real world with pneumatic instruments that suffer lag and mechanical problems, no such problems, although mechanical problems sometimes have a by product of people dying. The problem with those science shows is that its a weird beard type guy taking notes out of data, not assessing if the pilot's mind thought of the given situation.

Sorry to snip your comment, hope you don't think I was being obnoxious, I did a preview and it was getting crowded.

Also DigitalFoundry!, I love those articles! whoop whoop.

LG HDTV in "gaming mode" probably turns off all image processing (which is pointless most of the time anyway), that is the cause of input lag on most HDTVs, fucking around with the colour and sharpness, also trying fancy shit with the scaling.

Don't know what you mean by Melee cool down animation, lag would be noticeable in how it take longer than expected to start. Also I am not sure how lag works with online, peer-to-peer networks are notoriously hard to analyse.

When I said VR, I meant just like a flight simulator on a computer but a custom built program. It shouldn't matter what is going on in their head, the point is measuring how much lag MOST people can compensate for. There are exceptions to the rule, some are more sensitive, some are more resistant. iIt's an objective measurement and uncanny valley didn't come into it.

Cool down animation, God of War of the PS2 lets you start a combo but not finish it, the reason is that Kratos isn't that responsive, you know when he starts spinning furiously but you can't stop him, thats the cool down period. The devs take away your control to hide the fact there is input lag.

Gene from God Hand and Dante from DMC are two of the few characters that do whatever you want them to whenever you want.

Those VR sims, yes I know what you was talking about, huge problems with them, like your eyeballs telling your brain your flying at an angle, but your ears tell your brain your perfectly upright so your mind gets confused and has to decide as to which sensory organ is correct before allowing you to react, thats brain lag (cos were thicko's).

F1 drivers and top gun pilots have no problems with it because they're actually ninja's, us mere mortals do have a problem though.

I've really enjoyed this conversation, its been enlightening with regards to my past time and my HDTV, I didn't buy it because I knew it would sort out a bit of lag, I bought it because its pretty and sparkly, and I like pretty sparkly things.

Right I'm off to play KillZone 2, any dodgy lag inputs I find I shall report back!, I know the jumping lags hugely, but jumping isn't an intergral part of KZ2's online.

 

[Supraliminal]

In order to look cool and differ themselves from the well equipped spacenazis, the troops of USA ISA wear t-shirts and don't use protective or warm headgear, although
it's minus 25 degrees Celsius outside.

 

[Treblaine]

-snip-

That would explain why my stupidly expensive LG HDTV with a "gaming" setting has got no lag?, KillZone 2 also uses a lot of smoke and mirrors in its online to mask lag, like using momentum as a smokescreen to why your avatar isn't moving quite as fast as you think he should (thats what I meant by momentum).

Also the melee looks like the cool down animation will mask the input lag, much like in God of War.

I actually completed the single player campaign without the patches to see what all the fuss was about, sure there was input lag but the game was perfectly playable on the hardest setting, although I used to play online with dial up when everyone else was on broadband and I seemed to learn how to compensate for lag (with an old IR mouse too, I was young and thought they were cool).

Those VR things actually exasperates lag since your brain is trying to figure out where the fuck it is, its like every frame your mind goes "uncanny valley!" then process's the info, in real world with pneumatic instruments that suffer lag and mechanical problems, no such problems, although mechanical problems sometimes have a by product of people dying. The problem with those science shows is that its a weird beard type guy taking notes out of data, not assessing if the pilot's mind thought of the given situation.

Sorry to snip your comment, hope you don't think I was being obnoxious, I did a preview and it was getting crowded.

Also DigitalFoundry!, I love those articles! whoop whoop.

LG HDTV in "gaming mode" probably turns off all image processing (which is pointless most of the time anyway), that is the cause of input lag on most HDTVs, fucking around with the colour and sharpness, also trying fancy shit with the scaling.

Don't know what you mean by Melee cool down animation, lag would be noticeable in how it take longer than expected to start. Also I am not sure how lag works with online, peer-to-peer networks are notoriously hard to analyse.

When I said VR, I meant just like a flight simulator on a computer but a custom built program. It shouldn't matter what is going on in their head, the point is measuring how much lag MOST people can compensate for. There are exceptions to the rule, some are more sensitive, some are more resistant. iIt's an objective measurement and uncanny valley didn't come into it.

Cool down animation, God of War of the PS2 lets you start a combo but not finish it, the reason is that Kratos isn't that responsive, you know when he starts spinning furiously but you can't stop him, thats the cool down period. The devs take away your control to hide the fact there is input lag.

Gene from God Hand and Dante from DMC are two of the few characters that do whatever you want them to whenever you want.

Those VR sims, yes I know what you was talking about, huge problems with them, like your eyeballs telling your brain your flying at an angle, but your ears tell your brain your perfectly upright so your mind gets confused and has to decide as to which sensory organ is correct before allowing you to react, thats brain lag (cos were thicko's).

F1 drivers and top gun pilots have no problems with it because they're actually ninja's, us mere mortals do have a problem though.

I've really enjoyed this conversation, its been enlightening with regards to my past time and my HDTV, I didn't buy it because I knew it would sort out a bit of lag, I bought it because its pretty and sparkly, and I like pretty sparkly things.

Right I'm off to play KillZone 2, any dodgy lag inputs I find I shall report back!, I know the jumping lags hugely, but jumping isn't an intergral part of KZ2's online.

No, all the God of War games have very good (i.e. low) input lag and with a high framerate, I think that is just a peculiarity of the controls. After all, you are swinging a long chain, you can't stop that like a sword. God of War like Ninja gaiden are fighting games, and tend to hold to the same standards as tournament fighters like Tekken or Street Fighter.

That is NOT "brain lag", even sitting calmly in a chair with the aim of pressing a button the moment you see a light turn on most people cannot press it faster than 200 milliseconds after the light turns on. The light turns on at random with no warning but even with incredible mental training, absolute focus and completely ideal conditions only a few are able to respond as quick as about 175 milliseconds. The secret to "ninja" reflexes is anticipating actions before they have happened, like reading body language.
Oh and the VR sim was from the third person perspective, the "camera" perspective always stayed straight and level. TRUST ME when I say uncanny valley or signal input conflict have nothing to do with it, it was called a controlled experiment for a reason. Sheesh.

Have a good time with Killzone 2, maybe look into input lag on your HDTV/monitor, see how it can help.

 

[Hargrimm]

The trailer looks pretty cool.
Getting to play as a Helghast for once would be pretty cool, though I won't hold my breath.(If you actually read up on the backstory of the game the Helghast seem a lot more sympathetic, at least in my opinion)

Some complaints about the close combat:
If you look closely, when the main character kicks a Helghast in the gut, blood flies out. wtf? That guy has a mask and is covered head to toe in heavy armor and sev doesn't seem to have a knife on his boot, so how did that blood come out?

Secondly, that neckbreaker was just stupid. He just lightly twists it. Do the developers have any idea how far you have to twist someones neck to actually break it? I know I'm incredibly nitpicky here, but if you're gonna go through the trouble of making these smooth melee animations, is it really too much effort to have them make sense?

... and secondly he's not wearing winter clothes because it wasn't winter when he was sent in, so it's not as ridiculously "look how badass he is!" as it's coming across. He's been stuck on the planet as he is since Killzone 2. Sorry to seem like a killjoy, but hey, someone has to get the facts out.

Good point, but that still raises the question why he didn't just scavenge a coat from one of the many, many, many Helghast he shot in the KZ2.(You could argue that wearing your enemies clothes is a bad idea, but there are still a lot of dead ISA soldiers lying around. Or he could just cut them up and wrap something around his arms. The clothes I mean, not the bodies.)

 

[Treblaine]

You can't get away with Rambo tactics if you are playing on the harder settings because of the vantage points of troops out of CC range.
Plus as I said, it's absolutely nothing new to the genre. It's damn good, but not enough to get hyped over. I mean, christ, I've had the health regen since Halo: CE and the same general combat since the first damn CoD, with grenade cooking having been introduced on the PS2 if I recall rightly.
Sadly, it's just polish to a genre which has been done to death. Sure, it will look great, play great etc, but it's not different enough to be breath taking or utterly immersive e.g. Shadow of the Colossus.

Well they don't call it Hard Mode because it is easy, it is Hard. The way I see it there is no point playing Hard Mode creeping forward creeping forward cautiously spending most of your time in cover. I hate this cover-based fad, didn't use it at all in Killzone 2, I force THEM into cover then run over and Stab Em in the Neck >

It ain't Rambo tactics, it's Blitzkrieg tactics, focus all you got to overwhelm your enemy to burst through and attack along their flank yelling "You Magnificent Bastard, I READ YOUR BOOK!"

I don't mind that it doesn't bring much new, I still enjoy the classic Quake and Doom as should we all, not every game has to be a revolution, they just have to be GOOD! I mean yeah, grenade cooking is old, but no game has done it this WELL, I can't believe it has taken so long for developer to realise the subtle but significant difference leaving a very high profile timer.

But yeah, KZ2 is far from perfect, it should have scored in the mid-80's rather than low 90's as most score aggregates call it.

 

[The Hairminator]

Was it just me, or did some of the animations look a bit... shaky?

In order to look cool and differ themselves from the well equipped spacenazis, the troops of USA ISA wear t-shirts and don't use protective or warm headgear, although
it's minus 25 degrees Celsius outside.

Well, it worked for Hitler.

Oh wait...

 

[bue519]

This is starting to look strikingly similar to Gears of War.

You mean a shooter about space marines looks similar to a shooter about space marines? Preposterous!

Gears of War isn't about Marines.

beginning of gears 1 Dom welcomes Marcus back who replies "good to be back in the Army"

And as far as I know they never go into space, so they are more... land... army... guys. They they DO look and act a like like WarHammer 40'000's infamous "SPEHSS MAHREENZ!" who seem to be the prototype for most burly quasi-fascistic sci-fi infantry since 1987.


though I suppose Robert A. Heinlein is grandfather to them all, and set the template as Space Marines with fascistic undertones and legendary badassery.

ISA come from space, in and landing craft (very Marine like) and I heard several of them give the "Huuoo Auuurrgh" that US Marines always do.

BUT, I'd say they fit more of the "James Cameron's Aliens" type of Colonial Marines[/i], normal body proportions, more eccentric personalities, easier going, fly by the seat of their pants as the shit goes down while one of them yelling something like
"Game over, man, GAME OVER! They're coming through the fucking walls!"

While a Space Marine would just grunt and charge at it yelling "WE FAAAUUGHTT FUUR THAA EMPRAAA!!!"

So going by those trope-a-dopes:

The characters in Killzone are Colonial Marines going by the common trope.

The characters in Gears of War fit the Space Marine trope.

Even though space and/or colonies may not be directly related to either.

It's not ripping off each other, they're both riffing on a trope that dates back to 1939!

Well that was a very nice rant. However all I was pointing out is that both games are similar in that they are about manly men with guns fighting Nazi like opponents. I didn't say either was ripping of each other, I don't really care. All I was trying to point out is that the of course the games a similar any one with brain cells could see that. But, I'm glad you had time for a half page dissertation on complete nonsense.
EDIT: Now please you don't need to dedicate another page detailing the differences between Nazis from space and Nazis that pop out of the ground.

 

[Marik2]

The first 2 games both had gorgeous screenshots plastered all over the internet, and incredible jaw dropping trailers to go with. Unfortunately the end games always just seemed to be a bit lacking in comparison. Maybe this 3rd game will break that mould? Can hope.

Got to say though, I do love the look of that CQC.

Agreed and hopefully they make the controls more fluid and they need to make the characters more interesting.

 

[DigitalSushi]

Have a good time with Killzone 2, maybe look into input lag on your HDTV/monitor, see how it can help.

There's definite lag when using your secondary weapon or class abilities, class abilities aren't a reactionary necessary though so its not too bad, they are used when no one is about.

I use the Scout class which is mildly annoying thats his spot and mark ability takes 2 seconds of standing still to complete, but thats not lag, thats a bad design choice since it puts you at the mercy of the other teams Scout "thanks for standing still wanker".

Movement doesn't seem lag, but like I said, its all smoke and mirrors on KZ.

 

[Jumplion]

In order to look cool and differ themselves from the well equipped spacenazis, the troops of USA ISA wear t-shirts and don't use protective or warm headgear, although
it's minus 25 degrees Celsius outside.

Just so the other guy doesn't have to repeat himself, it's most likely a Nuclear Winter since some nuke went off in KZ2 (from what I remember or whatever), hence the ill-prepare garments.

 

[DigitalSushi]

In order to look cool and differ themselves from the well equipped spacenazis, the troops of USA ISA wear t-shirts and don't use protective or warm headgear, although
it's minus 25 degrees Celsius outside.

Just so the other guy doesn't have to repeat himself, it's most likely a Nuclear Winter since some nuke went off in KZ2 (from what I remember or whatever), hence the ill-prepare garments.

Thanks for calling me "the other guy", I'm really feeling the love.

Although seriously thanks for telling "that dude over there" about the Nuke going off, I'm probably this sites biggest KZ fan so I'm combing through every comment I come across and dealing swift retribution.

FOR HELGHAST!

 

[Jumplion]

In order to look cool and differ themselves from the well equipped spacenazis, the troops of USA ISA wear t-shirts and don't use protective or warm headgear, although
it's minus 25 degrees Celsius outside.

Just so the other guy doesn't have to repeat himself, it's most likely a Nuclear Winter since some nuke went off in KZ2 (from what I remember or whatever), hence the ill-prepare garments.

Thanks for calling me "the other guy", I'm really feeling the love.

Although seriously thanks for telling "that dude over there" about the Nuke going off, I'm probably this sites biggest KZ fan so I'm combing through every comment I come across and dealing swift retribution.

FOR HELGHAST!

Heh, sorry, I have problem with names and I didn't want to sift through posts to find the first one who said it.

See ya in Killzone 3! Add me if you haven't, PSN ID = Jumplion, just say you're from the Escapist and I'll gladly add you.

And yes, FOR VISARI!

 

[zombays]

Oh look, Gears of Duty Zone 7. I can't wait.

More like "Gears of Halo Duty Zone 8; The Been There Done That Sequel EVERYONE has been waiting for!" Yeah, nothing new, just neat water effects which you can't interact with.

 

[Smokescreen]

Looks good. But: 1) I hope they improve/contiue on the things that were great 2)realize that one of their main characters was an asshole and give him comeuppance and 3) don't overextend.