Killzone series: who's the "bad guy"?

Kollega

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So i haven't played Killzone myself, but i have read about it. And from what i can see, the Helghast are not as evil as their uniforms blatantly ripping off the fashions of Wehrmacht might suggest. Let me do a small historical excursion first, to better explain why Helghast' actions may (or may not) be justified a bit more than those of the Nazi Germany. Be wary: my opinion is very, very uninformed. Also be wary of spoilers which may be posted in this thread.


Back in the Stone Age, in the mythical era before the advent of computers and even television, Imperial Germany has lost World War I. It's economy went completely down the drain as a result, with the value of it's national currency plummeting. Germany was also forced to give up a large amount of it's territory, "demoted" from an empire to a mere country. How do you think Adolf Hitler has risen to power? He has promised the restoration and revenge to German people, and was elected - yes, democratically elected - to lead the nation. But of course the Nazis also had their hidden agenda of mass-murdering innocent Jews who didn't do anything wrong (now known as the Holocaust), and that's what we really hate them for.

The backstory of the Helghast, meanwhile, goes thusly: back when they were normal humans, the Helghast wanted to declare independence (for the selfish reason of money-grabbing, admittedly). For that the ISA and UCN, allegedly the "good guys", have exiled them to a planet where poisonous air and thunderstorms of gigantic magnitude are considered "normal weather". Scolar Visari, who is based on Hitler, has also promised the restoration and revenge to his people, resulting in the military campaign you have to stop in games. The most important part, however, is that Visari didn't commit anything as objectionable as the Holocaust - not anything that we know of, at least. Sure, he did quite a lot of extremely nasty things like establishing a brutal authoritarian dictatorship or trying to occupy Vekta in the first game, which probably entailed a lot of civilian casualties. But considering that ISA have started it all in the first place, the Helghast have a perfect excuse to fight back - and as long as they're not murdering babies and stomping on kittens, this excuse will remain valid in many fans' eyes.

Here's the official backstory / timeline, just so you'll be sure i am not talking out of my ass.

To summarize: on one side we have ISA and the UCN, who basically went "fuck off to a death-planet while we keep all the nice one for ourselves". On the other side we have the revenge-obsessed, fascist Helghast who would either enslave or just kill all the "vanilla" humans if given the chance. My opinion on the subject is that both are equally unpleasant regimes causing a whole lot of suffering to average people not deserving of it in the slightest - but who do you think is less evil?
 

Korey Von Doom

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All I have to say is the Nazi's had style. And I don't think they were really ripping off the Nazis, I think it was more of a futuristic WW2.
 

Kollega

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KoreyGM said:
All I have to say is the Nazi's had style. And I don't think they were really ripping off the Nazis, I think it was more of a futuristic WW2.
Well... yes. That wall-o-text i wrote is about the similarities between Nazis and Helghast going deeper than just uniform design. As Yahtzee has eloquently put it, it's basically "Gears Of World War 2". What i'm asking is "are Helghast justified in their revenge or not?"

And SS uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss, just so you know.
 

IamSofaKingRaw

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I thought that the Helghast were from another planet and sough to capture Vekta. After failing ISA brought the fight to them.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Kollega said:
KoreyGM said:
All I have to say is the Nazi's had style. And I don't think they were really ripping off the Nazis, I think it was more of a futuristic WW2.
Well... yes. That wall-o-text i wrote is about the similarities between Nazis and Helghast going deeper than just uniform design. As Yahtzee has eloquently put it, it's basically "Gears Of World War 2". What i'm asking is "are Helghast justified in their revenge or not?"

And SS uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss, just so you know.
They are hardly justified in their revenge. Their campaign resulted in the death of millions who had no part in their current predicament. This is precisely the problem with waging a war for emotional reasons.

I don't think that the Helghast are necessarily the bad guys either. Both sides have plenty of sins to atone for but of the two the ISA at least puts a friendly face on atrocity.
 

Hawk of Battle

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Vekta was their planet. It was robbed from them and they were left to rot on a shithole of a rock with no resources and no help from anyone. From their veiwpoint they were simply taking back what was theirs they only way that they could, the only way that was left to them.

If earth hadn't screwed them over in the first place, they wouldn't have created the Helghan people, and wouldn't be paying for it now.
 

Spacewolf

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not sure if there right but ill be damned if i didnt want to defect after hearing visaris speeches compared to the idiocy that is rico.
 

Korey Von Doom

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Kollega said:
KoreyGM said:
All I have to say is the Nazi's had style. And I don't think they were really ripping off the Nazis, I think it was more of a futuristic WW2.
Well... yes. That wall-o-text i wrote is about the similarities between Nazis and Helghast going deeper than just uniform design. As Yahtzee has eloquently put it, it's basically "Gears Of World War 2". What i'm asking is "are Helghast justified in their revenge or not?"

And SS uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss, just so you know.
Don't really know I've only played the second game.
 

ultrachicken

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They do touch on this in the end of Killzone 2.

And didn't the Hellghast start it by picking a fight with the ISA in the first place?
 
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Eclectic Dreck said:
They are hardly justified in their revenge. Their campaign resulted in the death of millions who had no part in their current predicament. This is precisely the problem with waging a war for emotional reasons.

I don't think that the Helghast are necessarily the bad guys either. Both sides have plenty of sins to atone for but of the two the ISA at least puts a friendly face on atrocity.
So being absolutely fucked over by the rest of Europe and having their territory split into other countries doesn't justify getting back at everyone else?
 

rockingnic

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ultrachicken said:
They do touch on this in the end of Killzone 2.

And didn't the Hellghast start it by picking a fight with the ISA in the first place?
Kind of but the Helghast were human once until they got infected with something that made them require those gas-masks they wear and they were forced onto a different planet. The Helghast really just want to live on other planets.
 

ultrachicken

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rockingnic said:
ultrachicken said:
They do touch on this in the end of Killzone 2.

And didn't the Hellghast start it by picking a fight with the ISA in the first place?
Kind of but the Helghast were human once until they got infected with something that made them require those gas-masks they wear and they were forced onto a different planet. The Helghast really just want to live on other planets.
I haven't played the first Killzone, so my argument is weak, but it's been mentioned that the Hellghast were formed when they tried to split off from the ISA because they wanted money or something.
 

bubba145

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They are inspired by the Nazi but there Symbols and accents are from the AWB a south african white resistance movement. but i never considered them evil i just considered them trying to better themselves by fighting for a better tommorow. Genocide was not the right choice though.
 

Drexlor

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Throughout the entire second game I couldn't help but feel kind of sorry for Visari and the Helghast.
 

rockingnic

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ultrachicken said:
rockingnic said:
ultrachicken said:
They do touch on this in the end of Killzone 2.

And didn't the Hellghast start it by picking a fight with the ISA in the first place?
Kind of but the Helghast were human once until they got infected with something that made them require those gas-masks they wear and they were forced onto a different planet. The Helghast really just want to live on other planets.
I haven't played the first Killzone, so my argument is weak, but it's been mentioned that the Hellghast were formed when they tried to split off from the ISA because they wanted money or something.
Well the Helghast split and fought to get back their rights to be called humans again and don't want to be limited to just the planet Helgan. It's basically racism that is the main cause for the war.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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xRagnarok19 said:
Eclectic Dreck said:
They are hardly justified in their revenge. Their campaign resulted in the death of millions who had no part in their current predicament. This is precisely the problem with waging a war for emotional reasons.

I don't think that the Helghast are necessarily the bad guys either. Both sides have plenty of sins to atone for but of the two the ISA at least puts a friendly face on atrocity.
So being absolutely fucked over by the rest of Europe and having their territory split into other countries doesn't justify getting back at everyone else?
If you asking if I think starting the bloodiest conflict in human history was somehow the right thing to do because of injustices of the past, then the answer is a no. If your asking if I can understand how the war came about, then certainly.
 

Kollega

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ultrachicken said:
I haven't played the first Killzone, so my argument is weak, but it's been mentioned that the Hellghast were formed when they tried to split off from the ISA because they wanted money or something.
I dunno... sure, their leaders were greedy exploitative fucks out for money, but confining them AND all the regular people under their rule to a planet where breathing eventually kills you is still very cruel and disproportionate.

I guess the ultimate lesson is simple: "greed is bad, war is hell". Does anyone disagree?
 

Sniper Team 4

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Killzone's story always bothered me. You, however, have touched on a main point that I noticed in the game. The Helghast were evil the first game because they invaded your planet and started killing everyone. However, from a non-involved party point of view (like ourselves), the ISA seem to be bullies as well. No one's really striking the "moral high ground" in this series, which I suppose is closer to real life, but it makes getting behind these characters a bit difficult.