Snake with a chicken hat on can only improve the entertainment value. Just think of how dopey the bad guys are for missing this stealth action master while wearing the thing.
Kojima Trolls Metal Gear Solid Fans on Christmas With Chicken Hat
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
Well, a present is typically something you give someone without getting anything in return, so... I guess that's a matter of opinion.Gordon_4 said:
Harry Mason said:
It kinda seems like you just wanna complain about something without having actually played the game. "Gang"raped is just exaggerating (unless I missed some secret tapes), and Paz is not a teenager. Paz's life really sucked, but get your facts straight if you're gonna complain.
MGS traditionally has difficulty options. The easiest of which is usually REALLY frigging easy, usually giving you special weapons that make the game exponentially easier. The chicken hat is what happens when you jump into the game straight on the hardest difficulty thinking you're hot shit. Spoiler: You're not.Haru17 said:
"Teenage"? "Gang-rape"? Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you haven't played Ground Zeroes.Harry Mason said:
For anyone else in the same boat, there's only two difficulty settings - "Normal" and "Hard", the latter of which becomes available after completing the former. You can get certain achievements for completing a mission without any kills, but there's more due to the far less linear way the game is designed compared to prior games. Things like weather also influence visibility, which - by its very nature - influence difficulty pretty dramatically.
The chicken cap is an amusing answer to the White Tanuki Suit for those who want to "see" the game but suck at stealth mechanics. It's just not the mythical release date many hopefuls (ie: myself) were waiting for.
GamerKT said:
Well, goodness! I'm sorry I got her age wrong! I guess being in her 20s rather than her teens makes forcing her to have sex with a young boy and sewing a bomb into her vagina much less horrifying. And in the audio diaries, Skull Face encourages his soldiers to also rape Paz, which is where I got the "gang rape" thing from.UberGott said:
If y'all are quibbling over minutiae like her age and the definition of certain types of sexual assault, I think you may have missed my point.
Putting forced pedophilia into the same game as a wacky chicken hat is tone deaf as fuck. If you don't think so, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. That and I might want to make sure you're not standing outside my window right now with a mask and a hacksaw.
I'm going to say that you missed all the subtext...and I mean all of it. The entire point of Ground Zeroes is so that you as Big Boss feel like an ass. Start to finish that is the point. Before you ever play the game, there is an option to get caught up on the previous games. As you do this, it unlocks a set of tapes created by Paz. As you and by extension Big Boss listens to these tapes, it become more and more apparent that someone you thought simply had been a spy and a betrayer had a bit at a time come to love and trust you. You go into this with "She betrayed me and I hate her...I don't care what happens to her." And by the end you're left with "She was in a hard place and while I don't agree with what she did...I was wrong." The entire game is Big Boss admitting that he was wrong about Paz and things go from "I want revenge" to "I need to rescue her."Harry Mason said:
The rape mentioned, it may or may not have been rape in the conventional sense. I say this because when you talk to Chico, in his mind it is rape. They forced him to do it or they'd both die and so it is rape for him and of a girl that the tapes and the previous games inform you that he loves very much. At the time though Paz actually tries to comfort him, she says that it is alright and so on, she is giving permission under obvious duress, but again it is permission and most people aren't out trying to comfort their rapist and that is again a shot at Big Boss's idea of Paz vs the reality of Paz.
The solider rape thing, I got no idea. I didn't run across it, but it doesn't mean that it wasn't there. But even so, they are the bad guys. No one is surprised that the bad guys are rapist or that they put a bomb in someone's body. If anything they were there to kick all the puppies and twirl their mustaches so that it is more understandable for Big Boss to take his fall. Heck both Paz and Chico basically got fridged so that you the player are feeling more and more aggressive and that you want revenge and you don't care what you do to get it. In short they wanted you mad and they wanted you hurting and they did what they did so that you can be painted in a certain light and it all tastes that much more bitter because you as Boss and the player entered into things with rage in your heart directed at someone that you should have been caring for. The whole thing plays like Hamlet and Ophelia.
As for tone deaf...This is MGS. The game series in which you have victims of horrific war trauma turn into J-pop models when you point a camera at them or you have a guy getting diarrhea and running off in the middle of a cutscene between two characters' dialoging about the horrors of war and technology imprisoning people in the current century. In short, it doesn't take itself too seriously in some regards and loves to parody the self-importance of action movies and the associated tropes while still pointing a finger at the human condition.
No, I think the biggest burn is a damn Copper Star for Super Mario Galaxy 2 or that damned pig from the newer Donkey Kong Country games. For the Copper Star, it never goes away, even when you get the star yourself. So it's a belmish that's forever on the file that can only be purged by purging the file itself. The pig on the other hand, you die 3 times and then that bastard shows up and doesn't go away, which annoys me when he's in the temples or Rocket Barrel missions because some of those are legitimately difficult! >.<Sonicron said:
Double points if you hide in the box after, just so that their last sight is your "master disguise." XDFalloutJack said:
Repeated rape, forced pedophilia, and genital mutilation elevates a character above the status of "meany-pants." It's grave, adult content, and Kojima handled it in a tone-deaf way.GamerKT said:
I understand "the point." I just don't think it was a strong enough point to support the content. James Bond villains didn't have to perform female circumcisions with pockets knives in order for people to understand they they were bad news.
Again, context doesn't help if you take extreme, traumatizing, adult subject matter and contextualize it within a pulpy premise with goofy villains. Forcing two people to have sex at gunpoint is sexual assault. The interaction that begins at around 4:20 in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYrnW2xB5bA) is not consensual. There is no "conventional" sense of rape. There is sexual abuse and violence, or... Not those things.Lupine said:
I am in no way against adult subject matter. I mean, look at my avatar (that isn't to say there aren't some wildly mishandled things in the Silent Hill series). But adult subject matter has to earn its place in a work of art, or it comes across as mean-spirited and nasty. It has to be treated with the reverence and tone it deserves. And it ESPECIALLY has to be necessary, which the level that Ground Zeros took it to was not, in my mind.
We can argue over plot points and context all day (I love the Metal Gear series, so I love talking about it).
But genital mutilation, violent rape, and chicken hats do not belong in the same game. Period. You can feel that way and still love the art. It's okay to criticize the things you love. But, c'mon man, let's be real...
Chicken hats and rape. Not cool.
There is very much a convention to rape. Rape is engaging in a sexual act or intimate contact with an unwilling participant, but in this context Chico is every bit as much a victim of this as Paz is. They are both being victimized and no one said that it wasn't sexual assault, just that you might not be able to call it rape seeing as Paz convinces Chico to go along with it so that he can live. I'm not saying, "Oh I approve of this action" I'm saying that in the end, this is Paz being selfless in order to save the life of another human being with the sexual contact being secondary as an offensive act meant to emotionally wound everyone involved (Paz, Chico, Big Boss, and the player).Harry Mason said:
The thing is, all of that is your opinion and while you're entitled to it, my point is that this isn't new. Every Metal Gear does this sort of thing. I wasn't joking about the J-Pop model thing. The B&B Corps, if you listen to their back stories from Drebin have some of the most horrifying war atrocities you can think of in their backgrounds, every single one of them is a victim, no two shakes about it and even so you are forced to put them down. The entire point is that they don't deserve what you're doing to them and that you are a bit of a monster for doing it. They even lampshade this stuff through out the series...when Meryl calls Snake a hero, he immediately shuts her down.
"All the heroes I know are dead..."
All of this happens while you are also able to get the B&B members to pose for photos with J-Pop music blaring. Then again, there is the conversation between Raiden and Solidus, they are discussing child soldiers and technology leading to the downfall of human civilization while at the same time you can focus your view on Johnny getting diarrhea and running around with his head cut off. Kojima slips in silly anywhere he feels like it and it has long since gone against the more serious and grim tone of things. At this point I feel like I've seen so many people talking about it in the positive or the negative that it should be expected either way you feel about it.
Maybe this one just highlights it for you when you had been ignoring it before?
As far as I'm aware, nobody worth listening to has ever defended Hideo Kojima as anything but potentially bipolar. You can dislike it, mind, but there's a rather marked difference between accidentally giving off inappropriate vibes and going out of your way to drizzle ghost pepper puree into a chocolate sauce.
But that's kind of the appeal in the first place, isn't it? The bizarre, immature humor next to the deathly serious threat of nuclear annihilation. The inherently grim, sad reality of war next to the fetishistic gunporn and mech fantasy. The fact that breaking the fourth wall has existed since the original 8-bit game is as much a part of this franchise as lengthy torture scene that end with the hero literally getting their eye shot out and pissing themselves. Kojima's a nut, but anyone legitimately upset about Ground Zeroes should be no less angered by the suffering Eva went through in MGS3. (And heck, maybe you are - but at least you can't say Kojima's been inconsistent!)
You're aware that Ground Zeroes =/= Phantom Pain, I'm quite sure. Fultoned sheep, cardboard boxes, eye-patch wearing dogs, burning phantoms, super-powered invisible snipers and inflatable decoys are all trademarked Metal Gear absurdity, but they're not included in Ground Zeroes. Sure the villain is literally a faceless snake with the theatricality of Skeletor in a John Wayne costume, but he isn't doing any of it for laughs; aside from the hidden "Extra Ops" missions, Ground Zeroes is quite a dour affair - unusual for the franchise, but since it's being used to literally destroy the tone of Peace Walker and create a grim template for PP to build from, perhaps not without reason?
Ignoring Ground Zeroes as a stand-alone slice of grim espionage flavored character drama just because the rest of the franchise is wacky seems unfair to me, but, whatever floats your boat. Ground Zeroes is a small part of the larger whole, and since Metal Gear is one of the damned few franchises where a short demo doesn't necessarily summarize the whole experience (see: MGS2) I'm trying not to cast judgment on Phantom Pain based on the extended preview thereof. Yes, it's difficult to do so, because it isn't a complete f'ing game - but that has far more to do with the mechanics and character development than it does the specific treatment of any one subject*. Even a controversial one like sexual assault.
It's already been confirmed that Paz will return in some form in the full game; maybe it'll be more tapes telling us what we've already guessed, and maybe it'll be something that changes a lot of things about how an outside viewer interprets Ground Zeroes. For all we know, Ground Zeroes was just a propaganda film made by The Patriots, or half-true memories from Big Boss' coma-induced fever dreams, or maybe that VR simulation that fans have been theorizing ever since the Virtuous Mission. I'm not suggesting it all is fake, only that complaining about how goofy The Phantom Pain is going to be becomes pointless until we've SEEN The Phantom Pain.
Not to say I disagree with your broad assessment; "tone deaf" isn't something I'd even bring up when discussing Metal Gear, but it's all rather insensitive, which is a new trick. But we can't discuss MGSV as a whole, because the whole simply doesn't yet exist.
Besides, at least this one bit of nonsense is completely optional. Can't really say that about Vamp's immortality, or The Cobra Unit having blatant supernatural powers, or... whatever the hell was supposed to be going on in MGS4. It's clear that PP will have a sense of humor, but I wouldn't be surprised if much of that is accessed only as the player wants to. Choosing your own comfort level of abject stupidity? I think that's a fine idea for any franchise that delves in nuking child soldiers.
[* Seriously, no wall-knocking? No guard dogs, as shown in the opening cut scene? No boss fight? No CODEC conversations? Dumpsters EVERYWHERE to hide bodies with no actual functionality? To say nothing of all the guard-shift changes and mortar-combat bits they've pulled out of the EXE file of the PC release... Ground Zeroes is a great little thing, but the things that weren't finished but should have been are so obvious at times that it hurts.]
But that's kind of the appeal in the first place, isn't it? The bizarre, immature humor next to the deathly serious threat of nuclear annihilation. The inherently grim, sad reality of war next to the fetishistic gunporn and mech fantasy. The fact that breaking the fourth wall has existed since the original 8-bit game is as much a part of this franchise as lengthy torture scene that end with the hero literally getting their eye shot out and pissing themselves. Kojima's a nut, but anyone legitimately upset about Ground Zeroes should be no less angered by the suffering Eva went through in MGS3. (And heck, maybe you are - but at least you can't say Kojima's been inconsistent!)
You're aware that Ground Zeroes =/= Phantom Pain, I'm quite sure. Fultoned sheep, cardboard boxes, eye-patch wearing dogs, burning phantoms, super-powered invisible snipers and inflatable decoys are all trademarked Metal Gear absurdity, but they're not included in Ground Zeroes. Sure the villain is literally a faceless snake with the theatricality of Skeletor in a John Wayne costume, but he isn't doing any of it for laughs; aside from the hidden "Extra Ops" missions, Ground Zeroes is quite a dour affair - unusual for the franchise, but since it's being used to literally destroy the tone of Peace Walker and create a grim template for PP to build from, perhaps not without reason?
Ignoring Ground Zeroes as a stand-alone slice of grim espionage flavored character drama just because the rest of the franchise is wacky seems unfair to me, but, whatever floats your boat. Ground Zeroes is a small part of the larger whole, and since Metal Gear is one of the damned few franchises where a short demo doesn't necessarily summarize the whole experience (see: MGS2) I'm trying not to cast judgment on Phantom Pain based on the extended preview thereof. Yes, it's difficult to do so, because it isn't a complete f'ing game - but that has far more to do with the mechanics and character development than it does the specific treatment of any one subject*. Even a controversial one like sexual assault.
It's already been confirmed that Paz will return in some form in the full game; maybe it'll be more tapes telling us what we've already guessed, and maybe it'll be something that changes a lot of things about how an outside viewer interprets Ground Zeroes. For all we know, Ground Zeroes was just a propaganda film made by The Patriots, or half-true memories from Big Boss' coma-induced fever dreams, or maybe that VR simulation that fans have been theorizing ever since the Virtuous Mission. I'm not suggesting it all is fake, only that complaining about how goofy The Phantom Pain is going to be becomes pointless until we've SEEN The Phantom Pain.
Not to say I disagree with your broad assessment; "tone deaf" isn't something I'd even bring up when discussing Metal Gear, but it's all rather insensitive, which is a new trick. But we can't discuss MGSV as a whole, because the whole simply doesn't yet exist.
Besides, at least this one bit of nonsense is completely optional. Can't really say that about Vamp's immortality, or The Cobra Unit having blatant supernatural powers, or... whatever the hell was supposed to be going on in MGS4. It's clear that PP will have a sense of humor, but I wouldn't be surprised if much of that is accessed only as the player wants to. Choosing your own comfort level of abject stupidity? I think that's a fine idea for any franchise that delves in nuking child soldiers.
[* Seriously, no wall-knocking? No guard dogs, as shown in the opening cut scene? No boss fight? No CODEC conversations? Dumpsters EVERYWHERE to hide bodies with no actual functionality? To say nothing of all the guard-shift changes and mortar-combat bits they've pulled out of the EXE file of the PC release... Ground Zeroes is a great little thing, but the things that weren't finished but should have been are so obvious at times that it hurts.]