Kojima Wants To Work With Western Devs

[Medic Heavy]

Jesus...i've never realised how much on this forum just utterly hates MGS4. I personaly thought MGS4 was fantastic considering it was my only MGS and konami ame I was pretty dam impressed.

Can you imagine him working on half life...oh i cringe at the thought of Gordon Freemans needlessly complicated and overtly dramatic back story...

And pausing for cutscenes explaining the origins of the crowbar, the hazard suit, the G-man, the combine. And the 1 minute of gameplay later, another 6 cutscenes.

......For some sick reason I really wanna see that happen.

 

[Woe Is You]

Can you imagine him working on half life...oh i cringe at the thought of Gordon Freemans needlessly complicated and overtly dramatic back story...

And pausing for cutscenes explaining the origins of the crowbar, the hazard suit, the G-man, the combine. And the 1 minute of gameplay later, another 6 cutscenes.

God, can you imagine the mess Valve would make of Metal Gear Solid? They'd delay it for a period well outside normal limits, then when it was actually released it woulc contain precisely jack shit of innovation, make sure the cutscenes are set up so that they're both unskippable and just long enough to break the flow and ruin the mood without being long enough to go do something else, all the while never moving the plot along, without ever looking well done enough to be enjoyed from any perspective, and making you do annoying physics puzzles that lack any creativity, and single fetch quests that take up half the damn game.

You obviously don't realize that Half-Life was really the first FPS to integrate the story as part of the damn game. Show, don't tell. It's something Kojima really should learn to do more. HL2 on the other hand basically succeeded in making a good game out of what Trespasser was trying to do.

The importance of HL as a series might be hard to see now if you weren't there, when just about every FPS since has been taking cues from it. But the leap in storytelling from games like Quake to Half-Life is immense, really.

 

[letsnoobtehpwns]

Lol. That's a funny picture they posted of Kojima.

 

[Woe Is You]

You act as if thats a good thing.

It's certainly a better way of doing it than making more than half your game a cutscene. Just about every game with Kojima involved after the first MGS just shows how desperately he needs an editor.

Meanwhile, Kojima invented a genre, and holds half the list of the best boss fights ever. And no storyline has ever come close to matching Metal Gear Solid

Castle Wolfenstein for the first claim and Planescape: Torment for the last. The second, well... highly subjective I'd say.

 

[jboking]

You act as if thats a good thing.

It's certainly a better way of doing it than making more than half your game a cutscene. Just about every game with Kojima involved after the first MGS just shows how desperately he needs an editor.

I've been biting my tongue about this for a really long time, but isn't how long the cutscenes are in comparison to the length of gameplay all in how you play the game?

I keep hearing, "MGS!? HOPE YOU LIKE TO WATCH YOUR GAMES! LOLOL!", I guarantee you I spent far, far more time playing than I did watching in any Metal Gear Solid. Why you ask? Because I play MGS as though I was Solid(or naked) Snake.

"I am just one guy, one soldier. My job is not to be a killing machine. It is to not let my enemies know I'm there. That way I can sneak by, or if need be, take out my enemy one at a time and hide the bodies so I don't alert any more enemies."

Not to mention, the only way in MGS4 that your cutscene time should run longer than your gamplay time is if you are playing on liquid easy(very easy mode) or are trying really hard to treat a stealth game like a TPS.

I also enjoy the story quite a bit, especially MGS3. I'm sorry if MGS3 was ruined for some of you because it had cutscenes, but I cannot see where you are coming from. The backstory behind Big Boss was epic and saddening all at the same time.

Also...psycho mantis...that is all.

 

[Erana]

For some reason, I want to fence agianst Kojima and Suda51. Sounds like it would be mindlessly drawn out, over-the-top, and tons of fun.

 

[jboking]

You talk big, but....

A group of striders fighting a Metal Gear

O_O...amazing. One question though. Which Metal Gear? Rex, Ray, Gekko, D, TX-55, or Arsenal?

 

[Doug]

Can you imagine him working on half life...oh i cringe at the thought of Gordon Freemans needlessly complicated and overtly dramatic back story...

And pausing for cutscenes explaining the origins of the crowbar, the hazard suit, the G-man, the combine. And the 1 minute of gameplay later, another 6 cutscenes.

God, can you imagine the mess Valve would make of Metal Gear Solid? They'd delay it for a period well outside normal limits, then when it was actually released it woulc contain precisely jack shit of innovation, make sure the cutscenes are set up so that they're both unskippable and just long enough to break the flow and ruin the mood without being long enough to go do something else, all the while never moving the plot along, without ever looking well done enough to be enjoyed from any perspective, and making you do annoying physics puzzles that lack any creativity, and single fetch quests that take up half the damn game.

You obviously don't realize that Half-Life was really the first FPS to integrate the story as part of the damn game. Show, don't tell. It's something Kojima really should learn to do more. HL2 on the other hand basically succeeded in making a good game out of what Trespasser was trying to do.

The importance of HL as a series might be hard to see now if you weren't there, when just about every FPS since has been taking cues from it. But the leap in storytelling from games like Quake to Half-Life is immense, really.

Trust me, there ain't alot of point arguing with Indigo about a Sony thing. He REALLY likes them, heh.

 

[Doug]

You act as if thats a good thing.

It's certainly a better way of doing it than making more than half your game a cutscene. Just about every game with Kojima involved after the first MGS just shows how desperately he needs an editor.

I've been biting my tongue about this for a really long time, but isn't how long the cutscenes are in comparison to the length of gameplay all in how you play the game?

I keep hearing, "MGS!? HOPE YOU LIKE TO WATCH YOUR GAMES! LOLOL!", I guarantee you I spent far, far more time playing than I did watching in any Metal Gear Solid. Why you ask? Because I play MGS as though I was Solid(or naked) Snake.

"I am just one guy, one soldier. My job is not to be a killing machine. It is to not let my enemies know I'm there. That way I can sneak by, or if need be, take out my enemy one at a time and hide the bodies so I don't alert any more enemies."

Not to mention, the only way in MGS4 that your cutscene time should run longer than your gamplay time is if you are playing on liquid easy(very easy mode) or are trying really hard to treat a stealth game like a TPS.

I also enjoy the story quite a bit, especially MGS3. I'm sorry if MGS3 was ruined for some of you because it had cutscenes, but I cannot see where you are coming from. The backstory behind Big Boss was epic and saddening all at the same time.

Also...psycho mantis...that is all.

Okey, fair enough. I just feel that he goes way over the top with the cutscenes. I played the second one (with the offshore oil platform?) and virtually every minute there was another cutscene, including one about what Virtual Reality Training is. Call me snobby, but that just breaks flow with a thump to the head by effectively saying 'Well, you obviously can't work out what VR is, so I'll have to explain it to you like a child'.

Jesus...i've never realised how much on this forum just utterly hates MGS4. I personaly thought MGS4 was fantastic considering it was my only MGS and konami ame I was pretty dam impressed.

Really? Because whenever anyone 'hates on' MGS, the Sony Defence Force is on them faster than you can blink.

 

[Stewie Plisken]

Good for him. As long as it's not about the Metal Gear franchise. If MGS4 suffered from something, it was a curious tendency to "westernize" some of its aspects.

And if the Silent Hill franchise is any indication, something defined by the Japanese and their idiosyncrasy is most likely not going to be handled properly by someone else.

Something completely new though? Go for it.

 

[rayman 101]

You act as if thats a good thing.

It's certainly a better way of doing it than making more than half your game a cutscene. Just about every game with Kojima involved after the first MGS just shows how desperately he needs an editor.

No it isn't. The Cutscenes are comparatively long, but they're brilliantly done, and always entertaining, to the point where I find myself trying to find the videos of Laughing Octopus online. You are give the option to skip them if you want in Kojimas games, and yet never once in any of Valves games. Whose the more self indulgent, the guy whose making a masterpiece to watch if you wish, or the guys making crap and forcing yout to sit through it, then not bothering to make the camera work right?

So you're telling me the mission briefings in MGS 4 are entertaining? Anyway, half-life is a traditional FPS game. Of course it's not going to have over-done camera angles. That would ruin the immersion of the game. The whole point is to experience it through the eyes of Gordon Freeman, and I think Valve do a great job with that. Also there's not that many cutscenes in the game (unlike MGS) and most of the time you can be crow-barring Alex's ass instead of listening to what she has to say. Instead of cinematic cutscenes, the game offers interactive cutscenes. (I do realize this exists in MGS too, but its no where near the level of what Half-life offers) I can understand why you're attacking Half-life, since MGS has been getting quite a lot of unfair hatred lately. (I personally blame Yahtzee's biased review)

 

[Stewie Plisken]

Should I point out that Half-Life and MGS bet their money on a different kind and level of immersion and comparing them is unbased and pointless, or will bringing logic into this cock the whole thread up?

 

[KDR_11k]

You can usually smell a Japanese game from 10 miles away and yes, often I get the impression that Japanese developers fail to look outside their own country for ideas that work and botch things that were standard in the west for years (of course not in high profile games since a game with botched basic stuff usually fails to get much of a profile). Kojima probably noticed that and now wants to get some more mingling done. Japan has been losing relevance in many parts of the market, possibly as a result of westerners learning from both sides while the Japanese live inside their box.

Though I do recall them having Silicon Knights (Canada, IIRC?) develop a remake of MGS1.

 

[rayman 101]

Um..... They both start with a cutscene.

 

[Woe Is You]

Meanwhile, Kojima invented a genre, and holds half the list of the best boss fights ever. And no storyline has ever come close to matching Metal Gear Solid

Castle Wolfenstein for the first claim and Planescape: Torment for the last. The second, well... highly subjective I'd say.

Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game in the same way Space Invaders is a tower defence game. It lacks any active tennents of keeping a low profile, instead having some actions that trigger enemy spam and instant death.

Nope. And the last sentence is either you being clueless or purposefully just making shit up (Either is plausible here, really).

Castle Wolfenstein (and especially Beyond Castle Wolfenstein) has most of the elements Metal Gear has. You avoid guards by making sure you don't go right past them or do anything loud in their vicinity. You can loot nazi officers for their uniforms and items to pass as a normal guard, you have relatively few bullets, so you spend most of your time trying to slip past the guards.

The only huge difference is that the graphics on Castle Wolfenstein are barebones and that Metal Gear has boss fights... but really, the core gameplay isn't really that much more complex in Metal Gear than it is in Castle Wolfenstein. The relevance of Metal Gear to stealth games is huge, that I won't deny, but so is the relevance of Half-Life to FPS games. The foundations of the stealth genre were already there before Kojima came along.

If you honestly think Planescape Torment holds a candle to Metal Gear Solids storyline....

Go on, find me a list of the best boss fights that isn't from Old Wizard that doesn't include The End, Psycho Mantis, Laughing Octopus, or any of them.

And if its integrating story into an FPS, Goldeneye beats it to the punch.

First, I suggest you try Planescape: Torment before saying anything. Second, well, just because it's on Old Wizard doesn't make it fact. Here's the subjectivity thing I mentioned: some of Radiant Silvergun's bosses were some of the most amazing things I experienced. Same goes for Rez, really. Far more impressive than The End or The Sorrow was.

The "story" in Goldeneye on the N64 really wasn't a story as much as it was a bunch of random scenarios from the movie cobbled together. If that's story integration then Marathon was miles ahead of that. In 1994.