Kojima Wants To Work With Western Devs

[John Funk]

...MGS's story the best in games?

Uh, okay then. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[jboking]

Should I point out that Half-Life and MGS bet their money on a different kind and level of immersion and comparing them is unbased and pointless, or will bringing logic into this cock the whole thread up?

However, comparing their types of immersion and how successful they are at imerging the player into the story can actually have an unbiased basis. It just wont stay that way, because in order for it to stay that way we have to admit that both Half-life 2 and MGS4 do an excellent job in their own way.

So you're telling me the mission briefings in MGS 4 are entertaining?

If you were smart enough to get a hold on the MK.II then the mission briefings were fun as hell. Otherwise, it's just information regarding your next big objective.

Anyway, half-life is a traditional FPS game. Of course it's not going to have over-done camera angles.

...Halo is a traditional FPS...

 

[jboking]

First, I suggest you try Planescape: Torment before saying anything. Second, well, just because it's on Old Wizard doesn't make it fact. Here's the subjectivity thing I mentioned: some of Radiant Silvergun's bosses were some of the most amazing things I experienced. Same goes for Rez, really. Far more impressive than The End or The Sorrow was.

I have a question. Would you say that the majority of people believe that some of the metal gear solid bosses were among the best bosses ever? Would you even say that some of them have become Iconic? After all, I see you like to play Castlevania.

 

[Doug]

...MGS's story the best in games?

Uh, okay then. Whatever floats your boat.

What, you don't want a 20 minute cutscene on what VR training is, and that it is used by whatever wierd organization that employees those guys?

Nah, nor me

 

[Woe Is You]

Hey um, cutscene haters... you DO know they are skippable right?

Oh thats right your just spouting the misinformed babblings of incompetent critics, reviewers and that OTHER guy who never played the game. And whenever anyone who played the game on more than it's simplest setting tries to tell you otherwise, FUCK THAT! Don't ruin my precious illusion.

That really isn't the point I was making at all. The point I was making was that the game should tell as much of the story through the game as is possible (since it's a game after all, not a movie). Kojima hasn't really even tried that since Metal Gear Solid 2 and the games really suffer from that. You're basically wasting a chance to tell the story through the medium itself and relying on a crutch. You don't have to ape western developers but you could at least try to approach the story from the game standpoint.

But speaking of cutscenes, I did skip most of GTAIV's cutscenes since they were boring, irrelevant and really didn't feel like they were worth my time. The difference is, the story really isn't considered the main part of the GTA.

I'm going to apply a comment I heard about something else to this. "Fans think they all have the magical bullet to how to 'fix' the industry, these games need to be developed, these games shouldn't be developed, this company should go out of buisness. They seem to forget that THEY are the fans"

So being a fan means that you can't criticize what game designers do? If that's the case, then it should be extended to Silicon Knights, Rare, 2DBoy, Bit-Blot and to me too (Take that, high school math teacher. My old DOS games made in Pascal are awesome after all!).

First, I suggest you try Planescape: Torment before saying anything. Second, well, just because it's on Old Wizard doesn't make it fact. Here's the subjectivity thing I mentioned: some of Radiant Silvergun's bosses were some of the most amazing things I experienced. Same goes for Rez, really. Far more impressive than The End or The Sorrow was.

I have a question. Would you say that the majority of people believe that some of the metal gear solid bosses were among the best bosses ever? Would you even say that some of them have become Iconic? After all, I see you like to play Castlevania.

Speaking of the majority of people, they also think Titanic is an awesome movie. That's the reason why I won't speak for the majority.

But I can concede that the first Metal Gear Solid has some memorable characters, mostly because they were different while still (mostly) being normal. And hey, the gameplay to cutscene ratio in the first game actually works. At some point it seems Kojima decided that his character roster didn't have enough freaks in it, so we got a boatload of them that I can remember just about as well as I can remember the inhabitants of Gensokyo.

 

[jboking]

First, I suggest you try Planescape: Torment before saying anything. Second, well, just because it's on Old Wizard doesn't make it fact. Here's the subjectivity thing I mentioned: some of Radiant Silvergun's bosses were some of the most amazing things I experienced. Same goes for Rez, really. Far more impressive than The End or The Sorrow was.

I have a question. Would you say that the majority of people believe that some of the metal gear solid bosses were among the best bosses ever? Would you even say that some of them have become Iconic? After all, I see you like to play Castlevania.

Speaking of the majority of people, they also think Titanic is an awesome movie. That's the reason why I won't speak for the majority.

But I can concede that the first Metal Gear Solid has some memorable characters, mostly because they were different while still (mostly) being normal.

In the case of the boss I referenced and other bosses like say, the end or the sorrow, I don't believe they are remembered for being different while still being normal. Psycho Mantis was familiar because of how you had to fight him and because of his intro. If you didn't have to switch controller ports and figure out how to find him as he disappeared, then the fight would have been boring and forgettable. Same goes for the end and the sorrow, they were memorable for how you played against them. This seems to contradict the idea that Kojima focuses on his cutscenes instead of his gameplay(not saying you made the assertion, just ranting).

And hey, the gameplay to cutscene ratio in the first game actually works. At some point it seems Kojima decided that his character roster didn't have enough freaks in it, so we got a boatload of them that I can remember just about as well as I can remember the inhabitants of Gensokyo.

Honestly, in metal gear solid 2, none of the enemies were all that unbelievable or freakish. They were all still people. Yet, most of the boss fights from MGS2 were nothing compared to the fights you have with the "Freaks" of MGS3. I'm telling you, remembering most bosses isn't based around their character, but rather the fight you had with them.

I get the point about not being able to remember all of the freaks, but can you remember all of the normal enemies? I feel you not remembering the "Freaks" has nothing to do with them being "Freaks".

 

[rayman 101]

Should I point out that Half-Life and MGS bet their money on a different kind and level of immersion and comparing them is unbased and pointless, or will bringing logic into this cock the whole thread up?

However, comparing their types of immersion and how successful they are at imerging the player into the story can actually have an unbiased basis. It just wont stay that way, because in order for it to stay that way we have to admit that both Half-life 2 and MGS4 do an excellent job in their own way.

So you're telling me the mission briefings in MGS 4 are entertaining?

If you were smart enough to get a hold on the MK.II then the mission briefings were fun as hell. Otherwise, it's just information regarding your next big objective.
...

Yes I did discover the MK II and that didn't make it any more entertaining. My point was that the scene drags on much longer than it should, and you already understand what you have to do for the next mission right begginning of the scene. And when it keeps on going nothing that interesting happens. (Probably the most entertaining one was before act 4 and that got boring at certain point too.) Once you're fooled around with the cameras and MK. II a couple of times in the first mission briefing, it got pretty boring with the rest of them. (Don't get me wrong, I loved the rest of the game.)

 

[jboking]

Should I point out that Half-Life and MGS bet their money on a different kind and level of immersion and comparing them is unbased and pointless, or will bringing logic into this cock the whole thread up?

However, comparing their types of immersion and how successful they are at imerging the player into the story can actually have an unbiased basis. It just wont stay that way, because in order for it to stay that way we have to admit that both Half-life 2 and MGS4 do an excellent job in their own way.

So you're telling me the mission briefings in MGS 4 are entertaining?

If you were smart enough to get a hold on the MK.II then the mission briefings were fun as hell. Otherwise, it's just information regarding your next big objective.
...

Yes I did discover the MK II and that didn't make it any more entertaining. My point was that the scene drags on much longer than it should, and you already understand what you have to do for the next mission right begginning of the scene. And when it keeps on going nothing that interesting happens. (Probably the most entertaining one was before act 4 and that got boring at certain point too.) Once you're fooled around with the cameras and MK. II a couple of times in the first mission briefing, it got pretty boring with the rest of them. (Don't get me wrong, I loved the rest of the game.)

Wait, let me go check something...Yup, you can still skip scenes. While the briefings were all in direct regard to the next mission, each one offered quite a bit of character development and if you had grown attached to any of the characters then you wanted to see every second. I mean hell, if you didn't want to watch the briefings then you would have no clue who sunny was. However, if you weren't interested in how the mission related to the rest of their world and if you didn't care to see the bits of character development, then you can easily skip the damn scenes. Don't complain about something when it is optional. As far as the scenes dragging go...the only one that truly dragged for me was the first briefing. I don't know if it's that I felt a connection to the characters or that I knew the story well enough that everything they were saying had subtle connections to the past(and the return to shadow Moses became obvious if you pick up on those cues), but I truly enjoyed the cutscenes.

 

[dragonnewby]

Umm... The cutscenes make up most of the game: Actual gamepley is 30-60 mins long... Last time I checked, half-life 2's goes up to 20 hours...

 

[rayman 101]

Should I point out that Half-Life and MGS bet their money on a different kind and level of immersion and comparing them is unbased and pointless, or will bringing logic into this cock the whole thread up?

However, comparing their types of immersion and how successful they are at imerging the player into the story can actually have an unbiased basis. It just wont stay that way, because in order for it to stay that way we have to admit that both Half-life 2 and MGS4 do an excellent job in their own way.

So you're telling me the mission briefings in MGS 4 are entertaining?

If you were smart enough to get a hold on the MK.II then the mission briefings were fun as hell. Otherwise, it's just information regarding your next big objective.
...

Yes I did discover the MK II and that didn't make it any more entertaining. My point was that the scene drags on much longer than it should, and you already understand what you have to do for the next mission right begginning of the scene. And when it keeps on going nothing that interesting happens. (Probably the most entertaining one was before act 4 and that got boring at certain point too.) Once you're fooled around with the cameras and MK. II a couple of times in the first mission briefing, it got pretty boring with the rest of them. (Don't get me wrong, I loved the rest of the game.)

Wait, let me go check something...Yup, you can still skip scenes. While the briefings were all in direct regard to the next mission, each one offered quite a bit of character development and if you had grown attached to any of the characters then you wanted to see every second. I mean hell, if you didn't want to watch the briefings then you would have no clue who sunny was. However, if you weren't interested in how the mission related to the rest of their world and if you didn't care to see the bits of character development, then you can easily skip the damn scenes. Don't complain about something when it is optional. As far as the scenes dragging go...the only one that truly dragged for me was the first briefing. I don't know if it's that I felt a connection to the characters or that I knew the story well enough that everything they were saying had subtle connections to the past(and the return to shadow Moses became obvious if you pick up o
n those cues), but I truly enjoyed the cutscenes.

I watched all of them from the beginning to end. There are some interesting plot and character developments, but to me, most of the time it was just telling us what the main objective is for the next mission is, over and over again in really slow pace. Maybe that's why it doesn't appeal to me so much. The pace is just too slow. (

 

[jboking]

Should I point out that Half-Life and MGS bet their money on a different kind and level of immersion and comparing them is unbased and pointless, or will bringing logic into this cock the whole thread up?

However, comparing their types of immersion and how successful they are at imerging the player into the story can actually have an unbiased basis. It just wont stay that way, because in order for it to stay that way we have to admit that both Half-life 2 and MGS4 do an excellent job in their own way.

So you're telling me the mission briefings in MGS 4 are entertaining?

If you were smart enough to get a hold on the MK.II then the mission briefings were fun as hell. Otherwise, it's just information regarding your next big objective.
...

Yes I did discover the MK II and that didn't make it any more entertaining. My point was that the scene drags on much longer than it should, and you already understand what you have to do for the next mission right begginning of the scene. And when it keeps on going nothing that interesting happens. (Probably the most entertaining one was before act 4 and that got boring at certain point too.) Once you're fooled around with the cameras and MK. II a couple of times in the first mission briefing, it got pretty boring with the rest of them. (Don't get me wrong, I loved the rest of the game.)

Wait, let me go check something...Yup, you can still skip scenes. While the briefings were all in direct regard to the next mission, each one offered quite a bit of character development and if you had grown attached to any of the characters then you wanted to see every second. I mean hell, if you didn't want to watch the briefings then you would have no clue who sunny was. However, if you weren't interested in how the mission related to the rest of their world and if you didn't care to see the bits of character development, then you can easily skip the damn scenes. Don't complain about something when it is optional. As far as the scenes dragging go...the only one that truly dragged for me was the first briefing. I don't know if it's that I felt a connection to the characters or that I knew the story well enough that everything they were saying had subtle connections to the past(and the return to shadow Moses became obvious if you pick up o
n those cues), but I truly enjoyed the cutscenes.

I watched all of them from the beginning to end. There are some interesting plot and character developments, but to me, most of the time it was just telling us what the main objective is for the next mission is, over and over again in really slow pace. Maybe that's why it doesn't appeal to me so much. The pace is just too slow. (

It's probably because of sunny and the other new characters that I found the briefings entertaining. No big deal though, after all, it is personal opinion.