Kotaku article re: Dragon Age 4

[Kerg3927]

https://kotaku.com/the-past-and-present-of-dragon-age-4-1833913351

Wow, what a total cluster f*ck of a company. Sounds like horrible leadership, constant indecision, inefficiency, wasted resources, talent bailing, all while EA prods them in directions they want to see things go (GAAS) to generate more cheap revenue. I can't imagine DA4 being anything more than another unmitigated disaster, if it even makes it to release.

It's a shame, because it sounds like at one point they were at least making an attempt to go back to their roots and make a new DA4 that was more like DAO or the original Mass Effect trilogy, smaller scale, fewer fetch quests, story-focused. But all of that apparently got scrapped, wasting 2 years of work, and now it's going to be... well, I don't even think they know what it's going to be. GAAS something, probably multiplayer, like the old RPG's but at the same time unlike them.... ugh. Just painful.

 

[CritialGaming]

RIP Bioware. Forget them they're are never gonna bounce back and be the studio they used to be. Everyone would be better off just forgetting about them and moving on.

 

[meiam]

I mean there is a reason why there's a image of EA killing all the studio they buy, it's not a surprise at this point.

It sounds like a lot of problem come from the idea that dragon age inquisition was some big success and that they should be able to do it again. But DA:I doesn't have that great a reputation, nothing near what DA:O has. I think the great score only comes from people being pleasantly surprised by it overcoming all the problem that DA2 had, but without looking at everything that's wrong about the game overall.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

so Bioware has been on a life-supported coma for the last few years and we haven't known? I mean can't EA just pull the plug? Let it leave this mortal coil with a little dignity

 

[Hawki]

I mean can't EA just pull the plug?

More like pulling the trigger.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I mean can't EA just pull the plug?

More like pulling the trigger.

Eh, yeah I guess. I was gonna say it'd be a mercy, but Of Mice and Men and all that. Just tell Bioware about the rabbits again and...you know...

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I said it before and I'll say it again - don't buy EA games. Any of them. Ever. Regardless of how cool you think they look. Publishers and devs have only one incentive to change, and it's their bottom line. That goes double for EA.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Disappointing. Dragon Age 4 was one of the last chances I was willing to give Bioware without simply dismissing any of their future games and sticking to pre-Andromeda games. This is not looking good for me having any interest.

 

[skywolfblue]

So for 4 years it was going along good, making smart decisions to revert to their RPG roots.

And then all that got completely thrown away for "Anthem, With Dragons"?

While I don't like it, I do understand that EA might have "games as a service" as it's motive...
But, A good game will make far more money then a bad game. Anthem may have all the stuff that makes EA happy, but nobody is buying. I think Anthem is losing EA a huge amount of money at this point. So why would they throw away a good game (Joplin) with one that's an Anthem clone of all things?? WHHYYYYYY?

It's Trump level of business mismanagement going on at EA and Bioware.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

I said it before and I'll say it again - don't buy EA games. Any of them. Ever. Regardless of how cool you think they look. Publishers and devs have only one incentive to change, and it's their bottom line. That goes double for EA.

"But, but, if we don't buy it, they might just not make any more of them" is what some people might reply to that.

Which might not be an entirely unwarranted fear because of how detached the people at the top, the Bobby Koticks, Andrew Wilsons and the shareholders they work for, are from what the consumer wants. The lesson they learn from "vote with you wallet" might not be:

"People didn't buy Battleduty Callzombies DD-cup because they didn't like our fuckery and it's affecting our bottom line, so let's not do that kind of fuckery anymore (note to r&d: research new methods of fuckery)"

But "People didn't buy Battleduty Callzombies DD-cup because they didn't like our fuckery and it's affecting our bottom line, so let's just can the franchise and redouble our fuckery elsewhere."

The latter is fine by me personally tho. I would happily sacrifice any franchise I like to eradicate just one of the multitude ways of fuckery the industry is so enamored with. But I guess many wouldn't.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

ugh...truly, a game for the shareholders

EA should change their vapid motto to accommodate: out with "for the players" in with "for the shareholders!"


wait, I think I'm confusing vapid mottos, they're all so interchangeable. nevermind, it still stands

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I imagine I'm the mutant here but I though DragonAge Origins was dogshit to look at and play. Its characters were its only redeeming features so I muddled through it as best I could. I felt DragonAge 2 was much more enjoyable game to play even if the edges has been sandblasted off quite visibly.

There are some interesting ideas in that article, like allowing Baldur's Gate style coop for the game. On the other hand I'm less than enthused for what sounds like Ocean's 11: Tevinter Heists. Mind, whatever they come out with instead could be equally asinine just for different reasons.

I'll take a chance on it, since its actually a continuation but I at least want Dorian and Feynriel in my party choices.

 

[Bilious Green_v1legacy]

Disappointing but hardly surprising. All the Dragon Age games post Origins have been varying degrees of disappointing, so my hopes for DA4 were low to begin with. With the latest reboot, the departure of Gaider and Laidlaw, and the general chaos within Bioware, the chances of DA4 being an improvement on the dismal Inquisition seem astronomical, if the game ever even sees the light of day. RIP in pepperoni, Bioware.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

RIP Bioware. Forget them they're are never gonna bounce back and be the studio they used to be. Everyone would be better off just forgetting about them and moving on.

This is the sad truth of the matter. This comes from the biggest ex-BW fanboy bar none. Between Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect 1 approaching 2, everything they did was magic. I practically lived on their old forums, particularly in the NWN years. The fandom surrounding their D&D games was one I loved being a part of (matched perhaps by Elder Scrolls/Skyrim modding community). It extended to KotOR and JE, despite the leap to console-first. (Their PC ports were at least well made with UIs designed for KBM.)

I did make the leap to BW Social in the DA:O to DA2 era, around the same time I would have found this site. The first DA included a toolset, and would also be the last BW game that ever would include a toolset. Player made mods were a part of BioWare's games, just as they were Bethesda's (NWN is still played today because of player made content), but no EA game will ever include a toolset. BW Social was fine for DA:O/ME2 mods, registering DLC but it wasn't elegant and the community feel of the old forums was gone.

The BW Points thing for those 2007-2010 games is still an issue for downloading DLC. Outside of Origin, on PC, getting the content is a bit of an adventure. But ignoring that, BW Social wasn't a nice place to be. By the time Andromeda rolled around in 2016 the site was so toxic BW shut it down entirely. (Not unlike our own R&P forums on this site).

But the magic from the games is gone too. All the old talent has left. David Gaider and Drew Karpshyn are the main names along with the good Doctors obviously. BioWare also caught a major case of the social-justice illness and its infected all games since, even arguably ME3, but certainly Inquisition and Andromeda. I don't know how Inquisition supposedly got "critical acclaim", it was awful with some of the blandest gameplay I'd experienced. The "Ubisofting" of DA made it awful and to this day I can't name a single character from that game that wasn't returning from Origins or 2. Andromeda was simply awful and doesn't deserve any more words than that and Anthem will be the first BW game I won't even pick up. It's a disaster so monumental I can't believe the gall they have to charge actual cash money for it, let alone offer a real money store in game.

BW died a decade ago and was replaced by EA Canada. BW will be remembered fondly for exceptional PC roleplaying games, the "cinematic storytelling" of KotOR, JE and ME and the most famous phrase in all of gaming to any RPG fan over 30, "You must gather your party before venturing forth." The tragedy is that the ME and DA franchises were allowed to shamble on under EA, rather than being allowed to die quietly like Sim City and Dead Space. EA Canada will reanimate the zombified corpses of the franchises to try and pass their awful games off under the guise of an older, better thing we have fond memories of.

I said it before and I'll say it again - don't buy EA games. Any of them. Ever. Regardless of how cool you think they look. Publishers and devs have only one incentive to change, and it's their bottom line. That goes double for EA.

I said it before and I'll say it again - don't buy EA games. Any of them. Ever. Regardless of how cool you think they look. Publishers and devs have only one incentive to change, and it's their bottom line. That goes double for EA.

"But, but, if we don't buy it, they might just not make any more of them" is what some people might reply to that.

That's precisely the point he was making. The only thing corps understand is the bottom line. If games flop financially (Dead Space 3 and "5 million units" for example), then execs will realise there's a problem with their products. Or at least that's the theory. The biggest takeaway from that article from a player's point of view is the following:

By 2017, EA had not been secret about its desire to make all of its major products into ?games as a service,? best defined as games that can be played?and monetized?for months and years after their release. Traditional Dragon Age games did not fit into that category.

A tiny team stuck around to work on a brand new Dragon Age 4, code-named Morrison, that would be built on Anthem?s tools and codebase. It?s the game being made now. Unlike Joplin, this new version of the fourth Dragon Age is planned with a live service component, built for long-term gameplay and revenue.

This is what EA games are. We'll never see a deep, rich, offline single player RPG from them again. Only live-services with long-term monetisation. I have no need for that and will be picking up CP2077 when it's announced, and we already have Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2, Pillars of Eternity and of course DA:Origins and the Mass Effect OT still exist.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

On the other hand I'm less than enthused for what sounds like Ocean's 11: Tevinter Heists. Mind, whatever they come out with instead could be equally asinine just for different reasons.

I'm just going to quote this, as we should always take anything that came out of pre-production with a massive scoop of salt. The ideas pushed for DA: The Tevinter Job sounds really cool in theory (Choosing how to do the heist! Choosing who comes with! Emergent gameplay!) it would undoubtedly have been a much more rigid and watered down version that would have become a finished game.

EA obviously doesn't really know what to do with Bioware and never really has. However, the management issues at Bioware are still all on Bioware. It was Bioware who failed to create a learning a organization that made lower level managers and gifted artists and coders ready for higher level management roles and who didn't codify what the core values of a Bioware game were. The decision to depart from what Bioware did well, fairly linear RPGs, to much more ambitious projects (DA:I, ME: A, Anthem) under a management that failed to make the necessary decisions is what got Bioware in trouble.

For all the shit that EA is getting, it is not as if "Games as a Service" hasn't been proven to work with heavily story reliant content. In fact, it was what Telltale did from TWD onwards. That Bioware seems unable to see its own strengths while trying to break into wildly different genres is not on anyone but Bioware.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Andromeda not exciting even bioware staff is understandable but good to hear all the same. Anthem killing da4 and causing people to leave, including some of the top da guys is pretty devastating though. That's the one series from bioware I genuinely like (and I was fine with Inquisition) but it sounds like it will struggle moving forward.

Why couldn't they just let ME end with 3 like it should and just make DA4.

 

[laggyteabag]

I don't feel like a Live Service model is inherently bad: have a game be continually updated with free extra content from time to time, including free maps for multiplayer modes/games, in exchange for minor microtransations - and then maybe offer larger pieces of content for an additional purchase. Sounds fine to me.

But with EA being EA, their efforts so far have been... disappointing, to say the least.

So, lets look at EA's track record:

Battlefront 2 has been out for over a year, had pay-to-win microtransations, but since these have been removed, the game has been on life-support. The game has seen a total of 3 new original maps, no new weapons, a handful of heroes and skins, and a couple of new modes.

Battlefield 5 has been out for five months, and its live service has so far yielded a handful of weapons, one new map, and a Battle Royale mode that seems to be DOA seeing as a literal marble game has more viewers on Twitch (at the time of this comment), and the next major Battle Royale game - Call of Duty Black Ops 4's Blackout mode, is enjoying 4x the viewers.

The only new content that Anthem has seen since release is the ability to replay story missions, and a new in-game currency.

And EA's other new Battle Royale experience this year - Apex Legends - has come out sprinting with... one new weapon, and one new character...

Even though Microtransactions seem to be raking in multitudes more money than traditional DLC ever did, it feels like EA isn't exactly giving back to the game what the live service model promised.

So no, im not really titillated by the concept of a live-service for DA4 - especially seeing as BioWare's track record this generation has been disappointing, and the last time that a BioWare game received generally great reception from fans was, what? Mass Effect 2?

BioWare will be joining Visceral soon, I bet.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I said it before and I'll say it again - don't buy EA games. Any of them. Ever. Regardless of how cool you think they look. Publishers and devs have only one incentive to change, and it's their bottom line. That goes double for EA.

Except the only people who know enough about how shitty E.A. is to not want to give them anymore money wouldn't even be able to put a scratch on their earnings by boycotting them. And even then, all they have to do is buy up another pedigree studio and a lot of those people will end up buying their products again anyway.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

That's precisely the point he was making. The only thing corps understand is the bottom line. If games flop financially (Dead Space 3 and "5 million units" for example), then execs will realise there's a problem with their products. Or at least that's the theory. The biggest takeaway from that article from a player's point of view is the following:

By 2017, EA had not been secret about its desire to make all of its major products into ?games as a service,? best defined as games that can be played?and monetized?for months and years after their release. Traditional Dragon Age games did not fit into that category.

A tiny team stuck around to work on a brand new Dragon Age 4, code-named Morrison, that would be built on Anthem?s tools and codebase. It?s the game being made now. Unlike Joplin, this new version of the fourth Dragon Age is planned with a live service component, built for long-term gameplay and revenue.

This is what EA games are. We'll never see a deep, rich, offline single player RPG from them again. Only live-services with long-term monetisation. I have no need for that and will be picking up CP2077 when it's announced, and we already have Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2, Pillars of Eternity and of course DA:Origins and the Mass Effect OT still exist.

Fair enough. Generally, when people post "vote with your wallet", their line of thinking is that if enough people don't buy a fuckery-filled game to harm the bottom line and are vocal enough about said fuckery being the reason, then publishers will learn a lesson.

Tho I suppose no one here really subscibes to that line of thinking anymore. Recent years have made it evidently clear that publishers learn lots of lessons. Just not any that benefit the consumer.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Monster Hunter I guess also fits the game service bill too but that's a franchise that is inherently compatible with it. The issue is when they try to squeeze games that don't into that mold and are left with mismatched results. Like, I genuinely ever understood why they thought games like mass effect needed multiplayer. It's kinda like the random beach volleyball mode in tekken 3 , only with way too much attention put on it.