Kylo Ren was the highlight of TFA SPOILERS

[The_Blue_Rider]

I kind of just thought Ren lost that battle because he took a fucking bowcaster shot to his midsection. The gun that was shown previously in the movies to propel guys off their feet when being hit with one of its shots. Plus Ren seemed to have an unhealthy interest in Rey so he likely didnt entirely want to kill her. Couple that with him being somewhat immature and having taken some damage as well in his fight with Finn, I feel theres enough evidence to explain away the fact that Rey won the encounter.

That all being said I wouldve vastly preferred it if they needed external help (such as chewie showing up in the falcon) to escape Kylo, wouldve just made him a bit more threatening for the net movie

 

[pookie101]

Kylo Ren's character was nothing short of incredible. I loved his strong/dark presence and that "do NOT mess with him" aura, absolutely loved it. He was a villain who could instill fear into everyone the moment he arrived on scene. That is how villains are done!

And then he took off his mask and everything went swiftly downhill. A lanky nerd with a long face and all I could think was "oh...okay..." and it was difficult to take him seriously. Then he proceeded to have trouble fighting one ex-stormtrooper and got his ass kicked by a scavenger who had never held a lightsaber in her life. At that point it also seems he completely forgot about force powers. Oh well.

But then again I guess Kylo was facing nobody other than Rey herself, who is basically Jesus. She instantly masters everything she sees and gets instantly befriended by everyone she meets (even someone like Han which is incredible). I tend to start giggling out loud whenever protagonists in any movie/anime/etc pull this trope.

IMO Kylo should have kept his mask on until the very end when Han confronted him, so we could get a brief glimpse at his more weak/human side. After killing Han he should've put his mask back on (murdered his father and gone further to the dark side) and proceeded to fight Rey/Finn, quickly making them realize how out-matched they are. Just as Kylo is about to finish them off, the ground splits and Rey/Finn make their lucky escape.

At least that way when Rey finds Luke you can feel a tone of "I need training to beat Kylo". But now all I can imagine is Luke saying "why did you come here with my lightsaber? Just find and kill Kylo, should be easy. You will master everything about the force in a day".

i agree with the helmet removal. i had the same reaction.. "oh okay"

i did wonder if the fight with rey and finn was foreshadowing that they will both become jedi

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Kylo Ren's character was nothing short of incredible. I loved his strong/dark presence and that "do NOT mess with him" aura, absolutely loved it. He was a villain who could instill fear into everyone the moment he arrived on scene. That is how villains are done!

And then he took off his mask and everything went swiftly downhill.

Congratulations! You understood the message the movie wanted to send. Kylo Ren is initially established as this menacing extension of the Grand Master's will, a powerful force user who's mere presence intimidates both those that oppose him and those that are on his side. And then TFA turns it on its' head and shows that Kylo Ren is not the Darth Vader of Episode IV-VI, he's much more similar to Anakin Skywalker in Episode III (but with better scripting, one might add). To his enemies he seems like a force of nature, but behind the mask is an insecure young man who desperately tries to live up to the image he's projecting and to the example set by his predecessor, Darth Vader.

Frankly, Kylo Ren is a marvelous character because of how he breaks the mold and how effectively the movie shows us all we need to know about him (see BloatedGuppy's post above yours). This isn't yet another masked, powerful villain with a personality mainly made up of "being menacing at all times", this is a villain-in-training who aspires to be that but is coming up woefully short much to his own chagrin.

 

[Zen Bard]

My impression of Ren is he's basically a Darth Vader fanboy who is trying (and failing) to emulate his idol.

At first he appears as an apparent successor; the mask, the cape, the voice and some pretty strong Force powers. But then it's slowly revealed that under the surface, he's nothing like Vader. He lacks discipline and throws a tantrums, he's frequently condescended to by Hux and is constantly asking for guidance from Snoke. He fails repeatedly to demonstrate the calm, cool control that made Vader so terrifying.

His character made sense to me. Imagine learning that your grandfather was the most powerful man in the galaxy. His exploits are legendary and mythic. Yet growing up, you're constantly dissuaded from him. Then you get an opportunity to train with your uncle, a legend in his own right who took down the most powerful man in the galaxy. At last you get access to the world of your idol.

But the training and path is slow and boring. You thought this would bring you closer, but it only moves farther away. Soon, you begin to resent your family and anger seethes inside you. Until one day, a giant misshapen Andy Sirkus comes along and says "I can give you what you want. I can make you like Darth Vader..."

For the Star Wars universe, Ren is a fairly nuanced character that I thought worked well.

 

[Zen Bard]

Just FYI...the majority of this community is using the term "Mary Sue" incorrectly.

While it's come to represent the perfect, infallible character, the initial intent was to satirize author wish fulfillment. The Mary Sue, Marty Stu or Gary Stu is usually perfect because he/she is an author avatar existing in his/her own universe.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue


James Bond was said to be Ian Fleming's "Marty Stu", Wesley Crusher was definitely Gene Roddenberry's, Bella Swan was most definitely Stephanie Meyer's, and I'm starting to think the Clara Oswald is Steven Moffat's "Mary Who".

While the current use of the term isn't necessarily wrong, it's strayed from the original definition and focuses on the symptom (the perfect character) and not the cause (author fantasy).

Let's bring it back to its roots!

Just trying to be educational. But I await the flamethrowers with marshmallows and a cigarette...

 

[COMaestro]

Just FYI...the majority of this community is using the term "Mary Sue" incorrectly.

While it's come to represent the perfect, infallible character, the initial intent was to satirize author wish fulfillment. The Mary Sue, Marty Stu or Gary Stu is usually perfect because he/she is an author avatar existing in his/her own universe.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue


James Bond was said to be Ian Fleming's "Marty Stu", Wesley Crusher was definitely Gene Roddenberry's, Bella Swan was most definitely Stephanie Meyer's, and I'm starting to think the Clara Oswald is Steven Moffat's "Mary Who".

While the current use of the term isn't necessarily wrong, it's strayed from the original definition and focuses on the symptom (the perfect character) and not the cause (author fantasy).

Let's bring it back to its roots!

Just trying to be educational. But I await the flamethrowers with marshmallows and a cigarette...

"Literally" would like to have a word with you about the evolution of language.

But yeah, I feel "Mary Sue" has evolved over time to be describing a perfect, infallible character rather than an author avatar.

 

[Zen Bard]

Just FYI...the majority of this community is using the term "Mary Sue" incorrectly.

While it's come to represent the perfect, infallible character, the initial intent was to satirize author wish fulfillment. The Mary Sue, Marty Stu or Gary Stu is usually perfect because he/she is an author avatar existing in his/her own universe.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue


James Bond was said to be Ian Fleming's "Marty Stu", Wesley Crusher was definitely Gene Roddenberry's, Bella Swan was most definitely Stephanie Meyer's, and I'm starting to think the Clara Oswald is Steven Moffat's "Mary Who".

While the current use of the term isn't necessarily wrong, it's strayed from the original definition and focuses on the symptom (the perfect character) and not the cause (author fantasy).

Let's bring it back to its roots!

Just trying to be educational. But I await the flamethrowers with marshmallows and a cigarette...

"Literally" would like to have a word with you about the evolution of language.

Oh totally! The overuse of the word "literally" has literally made my head explode. I literally have no head anymore. How I'm typing this is literally beyond me. Literally!

To be fair, I think "literally" is today's "totally".

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Dont worry about the logic of him having more training... Ren clearly lost because of the will ofThe Force. Its the only way to explain her sudden burst of power. Remember God is real in Star Wars and miracles happen.

 

[Yuuki]

Dont worry about the logic of him having more training... Ren clearly lost because of the will of The Force. Its the only way to explain her sudden burst of power.

It's also the only way to explain how Ren completely forgot about force powers in his fight with Rey.

During that fight all I could think was "Hey Kylo, just force-push her into a tree again like you did a minute ago. You are physically injured you dumbass, just use the force!!".

Nope

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I felt that Adam Driver did a superb job of playing Kylo/Ben. There's a lot of unanswered questions but my take on the whole argument of "how could Rey beat him" comes down to her being immensely strong in the Force but unrefined and him having taken the easier path, the Dark Side which is outwardly strong but weak inside. Add to it him being wounded by the bowcaster, and Rey fighting in defense of Finn, and also taking up her destiny gives her enough plot armor to "win" out against Ren. I feel the next contest may indeed be wholly different.
I also feel that while Ren is strong, he's terribly undertrained and hasn't had much in the way of opponents near his power level, refined or not, since whatever happened between him, Luke and the Jedi prospects/students/whatever. Recall too that Luke's training was extremely rushed, horribly skewed and broken by him running off in Empire instead of completing his training, and though he called himself a Master, I don't think he ever quite reached that point so any training he did with Kylo/Ben had to have been incomplete at best.
Plus there aren't any lightsaber duelists left to teach proper combat techniques and Rey seems to have already had some melee experience whereas Ren may not have had much beyond Luke's experience which is comparably poor (and Anakin/Vader was a shit duelist which was the only other person Luke had fought).
So what do we have? Two untrained or undertrained Force users, one who is powerful but weakened by wounds and possibly overconfident and also filled with conflict, the other is a determined unrefined and untrained but apparently naturally powerful and skilled combatant. It makes sense if you really think about it.

 

[springheeljack]

I think the reason Kylo Ren didn't just go ahead and use his force powers against Rey and Finn was out of shear prideful anger. They were both using his grandfathers lightsaber the lightsaber that by all rights(in his mind)should belong to him. His pride was on the line he had to defeat both of them in a duel. I think the reason Ren also lost against Rey was because he was hurt,bleeding,still in a funk about killing his dad and he was up against Rey who was no slouch in combat and was steadfastidly determined and driven by anger at the fact that she had seen both a potential father figure murdered and her only real friend in the galaxy lying facedown in the snow. I think both of those things would have amplified her force/combat powers greatly. Plus as it is mentioned you really dont know how experienced Ren is with a lightsaber because it seems that the only times he seems to use it at least in the movie is when he is executing people or chopping up technology

 

[stormtrooper9091]

I think it works as intended. Kylo is all sorts of a brooding emo kid that just happens to have super powers which he uses only to prove stuff to himself. He's trained but he ignores it, or forgets some of the points. Rey seems like an unbalanced character though, either she was aware of her sensitivities but didn't know it was the Force until she was explained, or she has even a higher concentration of midichlorians than Anakin did.

At this point, I can only wonder how strong Luke is since (obviously) a good part of Ep8 would be Rey training with Luke, often showing impatience and you know, the kind of stuff we already saw a million times when Luke was training with Yoda.

The climax would probably be Rey and Ren dueling against Snoke

 

[helwyr]

So random facts thrown out lets consider this point of the movie.
- Ren is not yet fully trained.
- He has been injured and is bleeding out (he would die without medical intervention) and to get through the battle he punches himself in the wound. BAD. ASS.
- He just made it out of a building that was exploding so he probably used a lot of the force and adrenaline to escape that bridge as the explosion was not long after and he was still trapped on that middle platform.
- He'd just killed his father who it was clear he still loved.

The fight with Finn? He kicked his ass.
The first time I saw the fight I thought it was even, it's not. Watch it again and watch how easily Finn get's cornered. Backs him off through being the larger/stronger guy and get's a lucky shot but then get's cut down quickly.
We've already seen how strong Ren is with Push/Pull force powers so when the lightsaber goes straight to Rey that probably instills a lot of doubt.
The next fight with Rey is split in to two parts.
The first part is before Rey's force power up moment.
Ren ruins her. Literally there is not a moment where she isn't falling backwards or desperately trying to backpedal.
At this point Ren has taken a shot to the stomach that is killing him, tired from force sprinting to catch up, taken a lucky shot to the arm and had a force power used against him that's probably given him a lot of doubt. He still kicks her ass.

THEN.

He stops trying to kill her. Why have so many people missed this point? He offers to teach her. He corners her and could kill her easily but it's clear he doesn't want too. Rey start's trying to kill him and combined with her force boost, confidence and well, relative lack of injury, she manages to come out on top in this battle.

So go watch it again and ask yourself one question. Before he stops to offer her the opportunity to join him, if he wanted her dead, would she be? Your answer will be yes.

Other factors: Snoke wanted her alive so he could train her. Ren was probably trying to not damage her and take her in one piece. She was trying to kill him.

And did I mention the wookie shooting him, escaping an exploding building, running a great distance to catch up to two uninjured people, punching himself in a wound that was killing him and likely untreated in any way and still kicking two people in the ass with ease?

Yeah Ren's a bad ass.

 

[Mastemat]

Kylo Ren was the worst.

Movies, ESPECIALLY multi-movie works like trilogies, NEED a good villain.

And emo crybaby, tantrum throwing, cosplay!Vader... Yeah... no.
He's a shit villain. He's a bleh character. He's easily the second worse thing about this movie. (the worst was all the bullshit "LOOK IT'S A REFERENCE!" that plagued this movie... not as bad as Into Darkness and Khan... but it's still 80% of the movie and was time better spent on developing characters...)
Just think of how much a massive improvement the first OMGLOOKREFERENCE would have been if instead of crybaby, pissant tantrum... he has ripped apart the messenger.
The scene was meant to remind you of that time when Vader got bad news and killed the messenger for disagreeing on the import. Which established Vader as a pure "evil" character. (Really an evil bureaucrat. Gives no fucks about the tiny wheels.)
Kylo Ren on the other hand... That scene is supposed to make us afraid of him... like the original that it was referencing did with Vader... but all it did was show how much of a baby he was. (Didn't help that the second tantrum scene included two Stormtroopers turning around in their patrols with blatant "oh no, master Theodore is throwing another of his crybaby tantrums... sigh...")

And babies aren't scary.
Unless they're the Time Baby.
And that guy killed a dude BECAUSE HE WAS CHEERING AND PRAISING HIM.
When a literal baby is not only a better villain than you... but also more mature than you are.
You're not a good villain and should go home.

 

[stormtrooper9091]

I really want to see a DBZ style super power battle between Kylo and Rey at this point, after Kylo kills Luke, naturally

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Dont worry about the logic of him having more training... Ren clearly lost because of the will of The Force. Its the only way to explain her sudden burst of power.

It's also the only way to explain how Ren completely forgot about force powers in his fight with Rey.

During that fight all I could think was "Hey Kylo, just force-push her into a tree again like you did a minute ago. You are physically injured you dumbass, just use the force!!".

Nope

Prehaps it also has to do with the psychological element. Kylo Ren is terrified he is secretly weak despite being seemingly rather powerful in the force. Ironically enough prehaps that moment where Rei outdid him by taking the lightsaber he was trying to summon, and then facing him despite just being an untrained scavenger, made Kylo start doubting his own ability in the force, Add to that the fact he just killed his father to reaffirm his devotion to the dark side which more than likely had the opposite effect of making him doubt himself... Not a strong mindset for any warrior to fight and its far worse for a Force user.

So doubt makes his force too weak for him to be confident in a force push.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

The best part of Kylo has to be the fact he's an inoverhishead Darth Vader fanboy.

His temper tantrums amused me greatly.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

For me Kylo wasn't THE highlight of TFA simply cause

I personally prefered Finn over Kylo eventhought he got defeated by him.

Finn's the best character in the movie.

Yeah, that. Finn the human bein' was the real hero of this movie.

That being said, i think... Kylo Ren has actually grew on me. At the beginning he appeared to me almost as Anakin2.0, but that almost makes a difference. Sure, his shit fits were kinda pathetic and funny(and movie has noted this with that shot of two stormtroopers), but these flaws paired with rest of his traits atleast turned him into believable if not affable villain. Ultimately there are two things that sold this character for me:
1st is motivation: Anakin seemed like he was following the path of the dark side by accident. He lets his emotions take over, does something evil/stupid and then regrets it and mopes about it around Obi-Wan or Padme, or Palpatine. Ren is conflicted, but he tries to stay on track, that may not even ever lead him to his goal. He doesn't run crying to his girlfriend or put blame on his master(s) after killing his father.
2nd is performance: Christensen's acting was wooden as fuck. Hardly any line he uttered made him a believable character. Driver was soooo much better in that regard.
So yeah, Kylo Ren doesn't fall far from his gramps. They both share impressive Force potential and are angsty, emotionally wrecked mess of a sith apprentice. But those small touches that different themnwere enough for me to consider the former Anakin-done-right.

As for the looks... okay, i get that seeing a sickly looking teenager(?) under that mask might've been underwhelming(although his appearance was revealed early in promotional shots, i wasn't sure we'll end up seeing him without the mask by that point). Personally, i take "bastard son of Snape and David Schwimmer" over pretty-boy Hayden in my Star Wars any day.

 

[Chris Mosher]

For me Kylo wasn't THE highlight of TFA simply cause

I personally prefered Finn over Kylo eventhought he got defeated by him.

Finn's the best character in the movie.

Yeah, that. Finn the human bein' was the real hero of this movie.

That being said, i think... Kylo Ren has actually grew on me. At the beginning he appeared to me almost as Anakin2.0, but that almost makes a difference. Sure, his shit fits were kinda pathetic and funny(and movie has noted this with that shot of two stormtroopers), but these flaws paired with rest of his traits atleast turned him into believable if not affable villain. Ultimately there are two things that sold this character for me:
1st is motivation: Anakin seemed like he was following the path of the dark side by accident. He lets his emotions take over, does something evil/stupid and then regrets it and mopes about it around Obi-Wan or Padme, or Palpatine. Ren is conflicted, but he tries to stay on track, that may not even ever lead him to his goal. He doesn't run crying to his girlfriend or put blame on his master(s) after killing his father.
2nd is performance: Christensen's acting was wooden as fuck. Hardly any line he uttered made him a believable character. Driver was soooo much better in that regard.
So yeah, Kylo Ren doesn't fall far from his gramps. They both share impressive Force potential and are angsty, emotionally wrecked mess of a sith apprentice. But those small touches that different themnwere enough for me to consider the former Anakin-done-right.

As for the looks... okay, i get that seeing a sickly looking teenager(?) under that mask might've been underwhelming(although his appearance was revealed early in promotional shots, i wasn't sure we'll end up seeing him without the mask by that point). Personally, i take "bastard son of Snape and David Schwimmer" over pretty-boy Hayden in my Star Wars any day.

I really liked Finn's story as well but was Kylo who I kept thinking about. It seems like Rey should be the new Luke for this generation but the more that in think about it the more i sees Luke's journey in Kylo.

I wonder if people want to see him redeemed or remain on the dark side?

 

[rosac]

The next fight with Rey is split in to two parts.
The first part is before Rey's force power up moment.
Ren ruins her. Literally there is not a moment where she isn't falling backwards or desperately trying to backpedal.
At this point Ren has taken a shot to the stomach that is killing him, tired from force sprinting to catch up, taken a lucky shot to the arm and had a force power used against him that's probably given him a lot of doubt. He still kicks her ass.

THEN.

He stops trying to kill her. Why have so many people missed this point? He offers to teach her. He corners her and could kill her easily but it's clear he doesn't want too. Rey start's trying to kill him and combined with her force boost, confidence and well, relative lack of injury, she manages to come out on top in this battle.

Yeah I don't get why people ignore this. Even if he did best her, he wasn't going to kill her, and a lightsabre can;t exactly knock someone out so he can drag her back to the base. Add in that she's resistant to force tricks (mind based anyway) and you have an issue. Most obvious way out is trying to mess her up then try to convince her to join the dark side.

Also, he did chop Finn up pretty bad and would more than likely have killed him given the chance.