LA Noire Dev Denies Poor Working Condition Accusations

Squiggers

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May 10, 2008
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PxDn Ninja said:
I believe the company over the individual in this case. I work in the industry and there are a lot of primadonnas who get let go or leave a company because they don't feel like they are being treated like the rockstars they think they are. Or maybe they just are new and didn't realize that you actually have to put in overtime in this industry.

I have worked the long hours, did the weekends, and never had issue with a company not compensating me for it. Ten years ago it might have been the case, but our industry has too much spotlight to play these games anymore. Maybe if this was some minor indy company, but this is a major company with a large publisher behind it.

Granted, maybe the investigation will prove the individual right and the company to be a lying dirtbag of a place, but until I see that I won't believe it.
I totally disagree with your first paragraph - Under no circumstances should anyone have to work 100 hours as a standard week, including 7 day working weeks. Deciding that you're not wanting to put up with that - as there are many companies that don't do this that i'm aware of - is common sense if you value your health, not being a primadonna.

The rest, i agree with. But i'll take the statements and evidence from the ex-employees over the management here.
 

6SteW6

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Mar 25, 2011
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Wait...wait...wait the production of L.A Noire is filled with lies, deceit and intrigue? Why are we complaining? this is practically free DLC!

*Grabs Fedore and Notebook*

Out of my way people I have another case to solve! Beedely beedely beedely bee!
 

gphjr14

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We're not in a authoritarian regime here you can quit whenever you want and if they were not being compensated time and a half they should use their pay check stubs (usually online if you have direct deposit) and they could've prove R* wrong. They're willing to admit employees worked long ass hours so the complainers can really tell too much beyond that.
 

rapidoud

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Feb 1, 2008
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It's:

reMuNeration
paid
Australian, although the fact that we're a harder working country than the US statistically doesn't mean we can be treated worse.
 

CM156_v1legacy

Revelation 9:6
Mar 23, 2011
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6SteW6 said:
Wait...wait...wait the production of L.A Noire is filled with lies, deceit and intrigue? Why are we complaining? this is practically free DLC!

*Grabs Fedore and Notebook*

Out of my way people I have another case to solve! Beedely beedely beedely bee!
As for what he's saying: I choose lie and present Employe E-Mails! I got em now

OT: A shame. L.A. Noire is a fun game. Too bad it looks like everything that is wrong in the industry now.
 

Mechanix

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Dec 12, 2009
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While I doubt the allegations are 100% true, I don't doubt that Team Bondi had some serious issues, because Rockstar has even said how bad they were.
 

duchaked

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Dec 25, 2008
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I couldn't help but think "so this one was paid to speak out!" but who knows lol
 

Jake Martinez

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Apr 2, 2010
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Jumwa said:
I for one believe the guy in management who no doubt received a pat on the back for this.

In all seriousness, I've never worked at a place before that didn't try to sleazily squeeze extra work hours out of employees, that didn't guilt trip, pressure and subtly imply repercussions if they didn't do x for y amount of hours more. And from my own personal experience I've always known people to make gutless employees who never speak out until they are pushed dramatically too far.

So I'm very doubtful it's as clear cut as it's being made out to be here, to put it lightly.
Look, I've been doing software for probably about 20 years now. I have never worked at a place where we did not have crunch time. It's known. It's expected. Hell, some of us even sort of enjoy it (so long as it's not perpetual, there is a certain rush to going all balls out on something over a 24 hour period).

That being said, of course there is a line that you try not to cross. There is a difference between "Dammit, we're massively behind because we screwed up [fill in the blank]" and "I'm going to try to put a bunch of guys on salary to make them work 70 hour weeks forever."

And honestly, with the exception of new features for software, the biggest problem with development is usually the planning estimates. I let my developers score their own story points on features and yeah, sometimes they fuck it up and our SLA's go all to hell. As far as I'm concerned, if you screw up that badly, then you man up (er... or woman up, I actually do have some female developers) and fix your mess. The worst case scenario here is when you keep your head down and hide the fact that you're missing your targets, because almost always that forces the entire team to chip in and try to save your story.

Also, we don't really know what the work environment was like here. These people are Australians (I work and run my team in Australia actually...) and Australian developers are pretty fucking newb. Most of them (and their managers) don't understand how to use agile software methodologies to constrain risk on projects, or to keep work effort under control. Most of them also don't know what it's like to work on commercial products, since the vast majority of work in this country for developers is government contract work, which for a lack of better term, is cruisy as all hell. I wouldn't be surprised if the people complaining have very little industry experience and probably forced the work hours on themselves by being shitty at managing their workload. In fact, not only would that not surprise me, that would pretty much fall in line with every major software project that I've witnessed or heard about in the last 5 years of being down here.

I shit you not, I have "senior developers" in my team, good coders with lots of experience, who until recently didn't understand the value of relative weighting of user stories by story points vs. hour estimates. They didn't get concepts like "minimal marketable features" or have ever heard of lean manufacturing techniques for software engineering like Kanban (something which has been around for decades, and applied to software for at least the last 10 years or so). I have had to get consultants in from the UK and USA down here to do enough workshopping and training with my guys just so that they are up on techniques and methodologies that are easily a decade old in the rest of the world.

So, all that being said, when some anonymous game developer in one of the few commercial software shops in the entire bloody country, decides to prarie dog his head up and complain about his work environment, I'm going to take it with a truckload of salt. If they want to blame the company, or the ceo, or some upper management guy, then so be it, but maybe the thing they're really guilty of is hiring a bunch of fucktards that don't know how to develop software.
 

Spaec

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Oct 23, 2009
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Investigations are rarely a guarantee when one side in the conflict sits on all the money. WikiLeak every e-mail between everyone in the organisation during development and there'll be as clear a picture as you can get.
 

BabyRaptor

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I work 7 night weeks at least once a month...Wish I could whine to a website about it and get attention. Most people are just worried about keeping their paychecks right now...
 

ImprovizoR

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Dec 6, 2009
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Of course they're gonna deny it. It's not like they're gonna say something along the lines of "Yeah, we tortured them a little bit. It seemed like a good idea at the time"
 

Svenparty

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Jan 13, 2009
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intheweeds said:
This just in - An accused employer denies wrong doing!!!



"In fact none of the accusers ever even worked here!" says Bossy McEveryboss, District Manager of Everywork's North American offices, "They are all sub-contractors of the freelancers who do work with us. Further, I couldn't have abused them as they are saying. As anyone who works with me knows, I rarely come into the office unless it is to borrow a bit of money from the petty cash.

These accusations are ludicrous. Please direct any further attention to our highly-paid lawyers, they're the ones who came up with my previous statement, so you might as well.".

McEveryboss went on to say that all other employees were, in fact, freelancers, and that is why they haven't payed taxes to the government.
BabyRaptor said:
I work 7 night weeks at least once a month...Wish I could whine to a website about it and get attention. Most people are just worried about keeping their paychecks right now...
Cannot believe nobody commended you for this soggy gusset of humor great stuff!

So the developers based Monroe on this guy huh? The way I see it internships and other systems are far more exploitive of their workers for literally no pay. I imagine these game developers aren't exactly poor or anything
 

Svenparty

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Jan 13, 2009
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Svenparty said:
intheweeds said:
This just in - An accused employer denies wrong doing!!!



"In fact none of the accusers ever even worked here!" says Bossy McEveryboss, District Manager of Everywork's North American offices, "They are all sub-contractors of the freelancers who do work with us. Further, I couldn't have abused them as they are saying. As anyone who works with me knows, I rarely come into the office unless it is to borrow a bit of money from the petty cash.

These accusations are ludicrous. Please direct any further attention to our highly-paid lawyers, they're the ones who came up with my previous statement, so you might as well.".

McEveryboss went on to say that all other employees were, in fact, freelancers, and that is why they haven't payed taxes to the government.
Cannot believe nobody commended you for this soggy gusset of humor great stuff!

So the developers based Monroe on this guy huh? The way I see it is many industries are driving their workers ridiculously and how about internships that take years that can be completely fruitless for the employee with pong hours and virtually no pay
 

themerrygambit

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Mar 1, 2010
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I'm sorry but anyone who's ever worked in the 3D industry should know that the 40 hr work week doesn't exist. I work in mere web design and I routinely work 12 hr days. The ONLY argument the whistleblowers even had were that they weren't getting paid for their hrs. I'd walk if that was the case too. But if they were getting paid for their overtime they need to stop their bitching and get back to work. Most people are struggling just to find jobs and here these guys are whimpering about working too many hrs while probably getting around six figure salaries for it? Please. We are fast becoming a nation of lazy whiners who are slaves to convenience and who are complacent at every opportunity we get. Sound harsh? Ask your grandparents how many hrs they worked during the depression to put food on the table or how many hrs they had to work the farm when they were 6yrs old, maybe you'll get a different perspective on things.
 

themerrygambit

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Mar 1, 2010
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I agree, seriously most people are unemployed and are worrying about how they are going to feed their families and here these guys are bitching about working too much?!