Lawyer Destroys Arguments for Game Piracy

razer17

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Fairly sure this is meant to be a news article, which should state the news. News should give you info about an important event or such. Not then fill it out with conjecture and opinion.

You can't mock Fox for being biased and then the next minute include your own opinions in articles. Opinion pieces are fine, but as a seperate piece, not mixed in with the news.
 

Scrustle

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I don't see how anyone with a brain can seriously hold the belief that a pirated game leads to a sale later. The whole point of pirating a game is to obtain it without paying. Once you have obtained it, why pay money for something you already own? Some may decide to buy the game out of respect for the developer and their work, but how often does that seriously happen? I bet it's far more common that it does not. And after you work out that you can easily get games without paying for them, that becomes a very hard habit to break. There's no undeniable reason why someone would not at least be tempted to commit piracy again and again after they see they can do it easily and without immediate negative consequence.
 

LilithSlave

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brainslurper said:
depriving the developer or their profit.
No, it does not, partaking in a media without having bought it is not depriving a developer of profit.

Furthermore, the majority of media in the world, without "piracy" is used without being individually paid for.

Losing profit is something that happens when someone refuses to buy something. This is independent of piracy. Piracy is not the refusal to buy.

Saying something like "Yahztee said Skyward Sword is the worst Zelda game ever! Therefor I'm never buying it!" is depriving the developer of profit. Downloading an .iso off the internet is not.
 

XDravond

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Mar 30, 2011
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I'm in the "what argument did he destroy" camp..
Agreed pirating is morally wrong.

Everything else is up for debate until a proper study (10k+ minimum participants, more like the whole community to get proper results..) that is either sponsored by both sides or someone completely impartial. And also by entirely unbiased researchers... Anything else might just be truth for a part of the pirates and gamers.

For example if you use only American "specimens" it's only really sure to be true for Americans...
What he puts up is just same old arguments we all heard before. (Unless your new to the Internet, then welcome to terrifying world of Internet where most people lie.)


But this study will never happen, both sides have valid arguments, neither side is entirely right.
 

MrTub

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Good to know that Escapist doesnt show any bias in their news.



Sometimes escapist is even worse then Fox news with headlines and "information" in article.
 

TheMadJack

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I currently own almost 200 games on Steam (plus uncounted boxed games, both old and new titles) and I'll admit I have pirated games.

Why have I done it? Titles that look fun but have a dubious feel to it; I usually end up testing for a couple of hours (more or less) then make a decision if I want to acquire it or not based on fun-factor.

Bulletstorm is the lastest I have gotten (Not long after release and I was both horrified and relieved). Horrified at the dullness of it. Relieved that I hadn't spent 40, 50$ bucks for it.

Now, understand that if there were demo versions of those dubious games in the first place I wouldn't even have to download all that data. I would be happy to download a smaller set of the game itself, test it out; the mechanics, the fun I'm having and replayability potential, to finally be able to make a decision based on personal values I find important in a game.

In the last two years I might have downloaded 5-6 games and bought NONE of them. But you know what, I didn't even finish any either. I played a couple of hours, didn't like my experience then uninstalled/deleted the whole thing.

I do not, again, DO NOT, get pirated games because I'm a cheap ass customer. I do it because I want to have fun for the money I'm spending. Nothing else. Sadly, that doesn't represent the state of mind of most "pirates".
 

XMark

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There really weren't any good arguments for piracy to begin with. It's bad to illegally copy games and one who does that doesn't have any moral high ground to stand on unless the game wasn't available for release in their country or the original game makers were out of business or something like that.

One real issue, though, is that DRM frequently penalizes legitimate buyers more than the pirates.
 

Grospoliner

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Not many people are willing to dump 60 dollars on a game that they may not find fun or may only last them a couple of hours. I know I'm not, I purchase games almost exclusively on sale simply because I am no longer willing to pay exorbitant prices for them, much in the same way that I will not pay 10-12 dollars to see a movie in the theater (I go to the weekend morning matinees for 5.50).

The irony here of course is that by the logic that a pirated game is an automatic lost sale, the same applies for me buying a steeply discounted game. Because I did not purchase the game at release, the company "lost" money by me not doing so. The fact that I purchased it later at a different price doesn't even enter into the equation. Non-sequitur much?

The real joke here though, is the concept that a company that gives away its product will make no money off of that product. I'm fairly certain this concept has be grossly disproved thanks to the release of hundreds of free-to-play MMOs. Did SOE not just release a press statement saying that their sales went up by 700% during the few weeks after releasing DCUO as free-to-play?

There's also the subject of returns. No software is eligible for return or resale except for console games (and thanks to the bullshit the industry is pulling with cd-keys that is slowly evaporating). Say a game releases with significant launch problems, or say there is a specific problem which prevents your hardware from running that game. Congratulations, you now own a 60 dollar paper weight (that wont even do that). Instead of the company incurring financial loss due to shoddy product design, the end consumer now has to foot that loss.

While I'm on the subject of consumer returns, why don't game publishers offer buy back programs? Do we not have such a highly effective mail network in this day and age that we can ship an object for a few dollars halfway across the globe in three to five business days? Why can't a publisher buy and sell new and used games straight from their website and then mail them direct to door? This would effectively allow the publisher to control the used game market and cut out middle men like Gamestop, giving them a huge profit when it comes to resell of used games (since they're making exactly nothing on used games currently).

If the publishers want to cry about lost sales, then they need to stop funneling money into sleazy profiteers like Gamestop. Wake up pubs! This is the digital age. You don't have to go through Steam, or EA, or Direct 2 Drive, you can host your own digital distribution AND physical distribution services which will net you both increased revenue and allow you to control content.

Don't just stop there though, allow owners of digital copies to TRADE OR RESELL THOSE DIGITAL COPIES. Don't devalue digital versions of games when all we end users are buying anyway are CD-Keys (and don't even try to convince anyone that the physical copy is worth more because its physical, when you have to activate it on steam anyway.
 

cobra_ky

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Greg Tito said:
Even though Purewal is a lawyer and should therefor be on board for litigation solving all problems, he's also a gamer. The solution to piracy should come from publishers offering better ways for customers to enjoy their games, not suing willy-nilly. "If we can reduce piracy through the means of technology and via the market, then that's got to be better than getting lawyers involved," he said. He applauds platforms like Steam that are a form of DRM which don't slap paying customers in the face.
This guy gets it. Legally pursing pirates works about as well as it does for illegal immigrants or drug users. it gets a lot of people in trouble but doesn't really remove any of the incentives for bad behavior.
 

oldtaku

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We've heard all those arguments a thousand times before - and expressed better. I mostly agree with him, but that's certainly not going to change anyone's mind.
 

DEAD34345

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Besides which, just because the method is not perfect, doesn't mean we should throw our hands up in the air and do nothing, does it?
Actually, that's exactly what it means. If you can't find a method to reliably catch and punish pirates, and only pirates, then you should do nothing. No matter how many criminals you catch, punishing an innocent is still wrong, and completely inexcusable if it's done in the process of punishing a crime as petty as piracy.

Also, by "not perfect", I assume he actually means "only harmful to legitimate customers" if he's referring to DRM, or "completely indiscriminate and abusable" if he's referring to something like SOPA.
 

viranimus

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Except the Atty is wrong. The Atty is basing arguments in speculation and conjecture. Seriously the guy is in essence proposing that just because we cant prove the "owner" of an IP address was the person downloading a game, we shouldnt stop trying to prosecute them?!?! WTF Cause yanno, Just because we dont have any actual evidence to suggest Obama is a Kenyan Socialistic muslim nazi, doesnt mean we should not put him on trial for his crimes. Im glad this guy really has a solid understanding of the way the internet works, and completely understands how easy it is to create a zombie node army spoofing/hijacking IP addresses or any of the various other ways that an IP address is not a validation of identity. /facepalm.

Seriously if your an atty and first argument is not only wrong but in essence illegal, then there is no reason to take anything else you have to say seriously. So theres no reason to bother with pointing out there is no evidence that a pirated copy = a lost sale or any of the other piracy arguments.


No what I find to be an extremely disturbing trend is the levels of agenda pushing yellow journalism as of late. I do understand the point of having no tolerance toward promoting piracy. It absolutely makes sense. But there is a massive difference between refusing to allow a community become a cesspool of piracy, and blatantly using falsehoods guilt and fear mongering in order to promote and force personal opinions based on specious reason on the audience.
 

Aggieknight

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Can we update the title of the story? There is no way his arguments "destroyed" anything. His comments, particularly the IP Address and the lost sales, are poor counterpoints at best.
 

MrTub

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Kwil said:
TheMadJack said:
I currently own almost 200 games on Steam (plus uncounted boxed games, both old and new titles) and I'll admit I have pirated games.

Why have I done it? Titles that look fun but have a dubious feel to it; I usually end up testing for a couple of hours (more or less) then make a decision if I want to acquire it or not based on fun-factor.

Bulletstorm is the lastest I have gotten (Not long after release and I was both horrified and relieved). Horrified at the dullness of it. Relieved that I hadn't spent 40, 50$ bucks for it.

Now, understand that if there were demo versions of those dubious games in the first place I wouldn't even have to download all that data. I would be happy to download a smaller set of the game itself, test it out; the mechanics, the fun I'm having and replayability potential, to finally be able to make a decision based on personal values I find important in a game.

In the last two years I might have downloaded 5-6 games and bought NONE of them. But you know what, I didn't even finish any either. I played a couple of hours, didn't like my experience then uninstalled/deleted the whole thing.

I do not, again, DO NOT, get pirated games because I'm a cheap ass customer. I do it because I want to have fun for the money I'm spending. Nothing else. Sadly, that doesn't represent the state of mind of most "pirates".
You do it because you're a lazy-ass gamer, who puts your own immediate needs ahead of those who actually did the work to make the game.

Case in point: http://www.joystiq.com/2011/04/04/bulletstorm-pc-demo-now-out-on-steam-and-gfwl/

There ARE demo versions, you were just too damned lazy/impatient to bother finding them.
yep proof of one demo shows that every game has demo. Of course.
 

thethingthatlurks

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I content that both pro- and anti-piracy arguments are flawed, but the "piracy=lost profit" annoys me the most. No, it doesn't. A sale would be made if I were to buy something, a sale is not made if I do not buy something. A "lost" sale would be me deciding against buying something over a competitor's product, while said sale would never have taken place while pirating. It's a subtle but important distinction: no money would have exchanged hands, and no loss of product was accrued. Some may then go on to buy the game, while others will not.

But on to something else: if piracy were indeed responsible for lost sales (which it bloody isn't!), would it be alright if I were to pirate decade old games that are not found in retail anymore, and their potential sale hence cannot possibly affect anybody's bottom line? Because that's what I'm getting from this imbecilic argument.
 

Kenjitsuka

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Why is this newsworthy?
Piracy = bad... whoa!

And by way of the mouth of a nobody who delivers a so-so standard argument without citing any actual facts and figures to back it up, that really adds to it! So... "destroying" the counterarguments is really quite an overstatement to say the least.

Slow news day much?
 

DEAD34345

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Kwil said:
Lunncal said:
Besides which, just because the method is not perfect, doesn't mean we should throw our hands up in the air and do nothing, does it?
Actually, that's exactly what it means. If you can't find a method to reliably catch and punish pirates, and only pirates, then you should do nothing. No matter how many criminals you catch, punishing an innocent is still wrong, and completely inexcusable if it's done in the process of punishing a crime as petty as piracy.

Also, by "not perfect", I assume he actually means "only harmful to legitimate customers" if he's referring to DRM, or "completely indiscriminate and abusable" if he's referring to something like SOPA.
You do realize what the trial system is about right?
Or are you saying we should only ever have a trial if we definitely know the person is guilty before we start?
There'll be no trial before websites are censored by SOPA (in fact there's practically no confirmation needed at all, that's one of the main reasons people are against it), and I've certainly never been to a trial before being punished by bad DRM for the actions of pirates (who don't have to deal with said DRM at all).

Besides which, yes, you should be fairly certain that you've got the right person before you go to a trial at all.