League of Legend Dev Responds to Greed Accusations

scw55

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Nov 18, 2009
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Just because League of Legends doesn't spam you to buy stuff, doesn't make them less greedy.

The mechanics of playing the game encourages you to spend.

The most popular and balance game mode is Draft Mode where you need a minimum of 12 or so Champions unlocked.

You can easily achieve this buy unlocking the dead-cheap Champions that you don't exactly enjoy. Or by spending a lot on the new Champions.

It's frustrating when especially other MOBAS lets you play all the heroes/champions for free instead of a cycle of 8 and unlockingness.

Riot games are greedy. They're just subtle.

I have never bought any RP, and I still haven't got enough Champions to be eligible for Draft Mode. This is after a year of playing.
 

prpshrt

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Players are just mad that they have to pay for heroes. If they just don't like it, they should switch over to Dota 2.
 

Mitzeh

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scw55 said:
Just because League of Legends doesn't spam you to buy stuff, doesn't make them less greedy.

The mechanics of playing the game encourages you to spend.

The most popular and balance game mode is Draft Mode where you need a minimum of 12 or so Champions unlocked.

You can easily achieve this buy unlocking the dead-cheap Champions that you don't exactly enjoy. Or by spending a lot on the new Champions.

It's frustrating when especially other MOBAS lets you play all the heroes/champions for free instead of a cycle of 8 and unlockingness.

Riot games are greedy. They're just subtle.

I have never bought any RP, and I still haven't got enough Champions to be eligible for Draft Mode. This is after a year of playing.
I have a lvl 23 smurf that I have been playing on for a month now and I can play draft, I really don't see how you can't after 1 year, it's impossible. I also have 3 full rune pages, and I still managed to buy champions that I like and get to play draft with them.

Anyway, there actually is a really clever system that is based on human psychology that Riot seem to be using to get people to buy RP, but it's not really a dick move on their part, buying RP is still optional. Notice how when you get to lvl 5 you get 400 RP which is not enough to buy a skin. If you decide to buy more RP so you can get skins, you will always then have some RP left over that will again entice you to buy just a bit more RP so you can get another skin, which in turn will leave some RP left over. If you need less than, let's say 50 RP you can ask Riot for some so you can buy something, and they will always give you more than you need, so you never have 0 RP. It's actually a really smart way of getting people to spend money.

But I have to say I don't feel they are greedy at all. I have been playing this game for 3 years now and I have spend about 40 Euros on it. I have all but 10 champs on my main account, all the runes I need on 5 rune pages. I have only spent RP on skins and never on IP boosts or champions. 40 Euros for 3 years worth of entertainment is more than reasonable.
 

mindfaQ

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Sorry Riot, but:
- your F2P-model sucks when compared with competitors
- you tried to proactively single out competition in an asshole kind of way many times

So in the end you might not be the worst kind out there, but nowhere near sympathetic either.
 

Atmos Duality

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Being greedy isn't a crime in business, unless it's so obvious and stupid.
(by that, I mean it isn't what you're selling or why, but how you're selling it and at what price)
 

The Wykydtron

"Emotions are very important!"
Sep 23, 2010
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Well greed is the best right now

I don't really see the problem, yeah the whole free rotation is really limiting but the IP gain is relatively quick and I like how they increased the IP cost of the new Champions on launch. If only because it limits bloody mirror matches in blind pick and less people will instalock first pick New Guy X in ranked. Nobody can play Yasuo for shit.

I think the rise to 7800 IP was to help the whole "Release broken OP Champs, nerf them a week later" complaint, basically telling you to calm the fuck down and wait for balance changes.

Long story short, there is ZERO pay to win (you can't buy runes with RP) and everything is reasonably priced. So greedy lol >.>
 

scotth266

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Jan 10, 2009
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Bring on the misinformation circlejerk that has spawned from people spamming "Riot greedy." I FEED ON SUCH NONSENSE AND GROW MORE POWERFUL.

Tenmar said:
-Cost of champions when released have increased from 6300 to 7800
For the first week, in order to drive down the number of people insta-locking in that time period. After that, the price goes down to 6300 as usual. Can't see why anyone would be mad about that.

-New tiers of IP costs were created such as the 4800 mark
-Champion IP reductions have been made but usually sticks at the 4800 mark and would take about over half a year for a couple of champs to be reduced from that 6300 or 7800 mark
So not only do you continue to spread misinformation about the 7800 price point, you're mad that they actually reduce costs, as opposed to the typical FTP games that never do that sort of stuff?

-Rune costs were increased to 820 and new runes that were made were also set at that price point
Uh, that there is pure bullshit. There isn't a single 820 rune in the store. The only new runes to be introduced in a long time were Lifesteal and Spell Vamp quints, and they're not 820 - hell, 820 would be cheaper than they are currently.

-RP sales for champions and skins have actually costed more with Hippo than with Moneypenny
Source.

But in the end it is just one of the biggest grinds in video game history and that's the problem. You can level a character in DISGAEA to lvl 9999 FASTER than you can actually unlock a decent amount of the content on your own in LOL. This is coming from a person who played since closed beta for FIVE YEARS who played every day and for a time frame of 5+ hours and I had about 70% of the content unlocked. Oh I should note that it was that much of a grind BEFORE I even mentioned said list above.
Uh, yeah, gonna have to call bullcrap on that one too. People playing since beta typically have more IP than they know what to do with, and have actually been asking for MORE stuff to sink IP into because they've got too much of it stockpiled.

Hippo and Riot tried to sell the ward skins as RENTALS.
And they listened to the fan outrage, learned their lesson and have only sold permanent ward skins since.

On a side note, I find it hilarious that people demand companies apologize and change things when they mess up, but when companies DO apologize and fix things, the tinfoil hat society views it as half-hearted attempts to win back their cash.
 

Risingblade

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I was expecting complaints about skin prices, but champ prices seriously? Even then they have free champs weeks, the new champs even go free to play 2 weeks after release.
 

Infernal Lawyer

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Wow guys. As a Lol-turned-Dota2 player, I can say that just because Dota 2 and other games offer more of their content for free and/or off the dot, doesn't mean that LOL is therefore greedy and evil. Oh boo hoo, you don't get as much of a percentage of the content for free. IT'S AN F2P GAME. YOU KNEW THAT YOU WEREN'T GETTING THE FULL PACKAGE.

I can understand the argument for and against how the champions work (i.e. "you don't get them all at once, booo!" "They give them out for free on rotations, yaaaay!"), but seriously? People are whining about the skins being purely paid for content? THEY'RE COSMETIC. THEY DO NOTHING IN THE GAME. GROW THE FUCK UP, YOU ENTITLED CHILDREN.
 

scw55

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Mitzeh said:
scw55 said:
Just because League of Legends doesn't spam you to buy stuff, doesn't make them less greedy.

The mechanics of playing the game encourages you to spend.

The most popular and balance game mode is Draft Mode where you need a minimum of 12 or so Champions unlocked.

You can easily achieve this buy unlocking the dead-cheap Champions that you don't exactly enjoy. Or by spending a lot on the new Champions.

It's frustrating when especially other MOBAS lets you play all the heroes/champions for free instead of a cycle of 8 and unlockingness.

Riot games are greedy. They're just subtle.

I have never bought any RP, and I still haven't got enough Champions to be eligible for Draft Mode. This is after a year of playing.
I have a lvl 23 smurf that I have been playing on for a month now and I can play draft, I really don't see how you can't after 1 year, it's impossible. I also have 3 full rune pages, and I still managed to buy champions that I like and get to play draft with them.

Anyway, there actually is a really clever system that is based on human psychology that Riot seem to be using to get people to buy RP, but it's not really a dick move on their part, buying RP is still optional. Notice how when you get to lvl 5 you get 400 RP which is not enough to buy a skin. If you decide to buy more RP so you can get skins, you will always then have some RP left over that will again entice you to buy just a bit more RP so you can get another skin, which in turn will leave some RP left over. If you need less than, let's say 50 RP you can ask Riot for some so you can buy something, and they will always give you more than you need, so you never have 0 RP. It's actually a really smart way of getting people to spend money.

But I have to say I don't feel they are greedy at all. I have been playing this game for 3 years now and I have spend about 40 Euros on it. I have all but 10 champs on my main account, all the runes I need on 5 rune pages. I have only spent RP on skins and never on IP boosts or champions. 40 Euros for 3 years worth of entertainment is more than reasonable.
*Making an Assumption*

You're smurfing. Which means you are probably the best player in the match. This gives you a great chance to win. Bonus RP.

You're smurfing which means you are heavily invested in the game. Which means you're more willing to play more frequently.

You probably bought economic Champions.


The system Riot has is beneficial for players who enjoy playing the cheap Champions the most.
 

NightHawk21

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dumbseizure said:
SomeLameStuff said:
I think those claims stem from their heroes being pay-to-play. Dota 2 doesn't do that, and I think Heroes of Newerth has moved away from that too (I'm not totally sure. I'm on the Garena servers which charges extra for EVERYTHING.)
But they aren't pay to play, you earn IP from playing games and can buy heroes with that IP.

I never understood that argument, because they aren't exclusively pay to play.
I don't know if its changed since I stopped but you got about 100-145 IP per game not counting the win of the day bonus (150 IP). A new champion was released once every 2 weeks, and literally every single one cost 6300. Seeing as that 145 IP was for a standard game about 1 hour long it required about 43 hours over the two weeks to farm up enough IP for a hero. That's not even going into rune costs. Compare this to Dota 2 where every hero is available to everyone immediately upon release.

At over 20 hours a week to just keep up in the game, well that's pretty much pay to play. Shit I've played MMOs that heavily pushed players towards microtransactions after a certain level that required less of a time commitment if you wanted to play for free than League does.
 

Adeptus Aspartem

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I play LoL since the closed beta and good god i wouldn't start with it nowadays, if i had the silly concept in mind, that F2p means "spend no money".

Someone once calculated that if you'd start playing now and with the average time Riot spits out you'd need 2 - 2.5 years to collect enough IP to buy all the champs in the game.

So jeah, the game is definitly built around those microtransactions and that's fine. Apparently F2P means something completly diffrent to me than to 99% of other gamers.
It means: Test it out for free and if you like our game please spend money.

And if you spend the amount of money you'd buy a game for on LoL, you certainly have no problems with Champs. Just grab the bundles and you're good to go.
If everyone could play the game for free with nearly 0 investment into it, how do you think those games could survive?

Someone already said it: entitlement.
 

Lunar Templar

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um, wot?

Riot, though I'm not really a fan of the game, does not have what I would call a greedy setup for LoL.

But then I'm pretty much convinced people who cry fowl on F2P games don't really know, or are other wise incapable of telling the difference between a good F2P model and a bad one.
 

Master_Fubar23

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I call them greedy due to the vested interest in making skins vs. fixing content. For over five months I sent in tickets, posted on forums, and sent in bug reports to have riot fix Fizz's playful/trickster. I even went as far learning to play Fizz a different way than I wanted to since I loved that champion but eventually I couldn't take it and gave up. Then the pro's play him during that last championship and boom 2 weeks later his E is patched. So I don't play league anymore and fuck Riot.
 

ShakerSilver

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Nov 13, 2009
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dumbseizure said:
SomeLameStuff said:
I think those claims stem from their heroes being pay-to-play. Dota 2 doesn't do that, and I think Heroes of Newerth has moved away from that too (I'm not totally sure. I'm on the Garena servers which charges extra for EVERYTHING.)
But they aren't pay to play, you earn IP from playing games and can buy heroes with that IP.

I never understood that argument, because they aren't exclusively pay to play.
Now see, while that is technically true, it takes a LOT of time to access all the content.
http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=759281
You'd have to spend about 8 hours a day playing (and winning every match) for a whole year just to unlock all the champions. Compared to most fighting games where you could unlock most of the content within the week of playing, it's pretty bad.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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They are greedy, but not in a way they are beign accused off. They do not want to earn mroe money. they want to be "The only ones". they are extremely agressively trying to push out the competition from every possible angle to the point of buying out the competition to not be allowed to tournaments. They want to control the game market, what they do afterwards we do not know.

ShakerSilver said:
You'd have to spend about 8 hours a day playing (and winning every match) for a whole year just to unlock all the champions. Compared to most fighting games where you could unlock most of the content within the week of playing, it's pretty bad.
Only 1 year? It would take 13.5 YEARS training 24/7 to unlock all skills in Eve Online, yet that does not mean that one NEEDS all skills. just like one doesnt need all champions. find 5-10 champions you enjoy playing with and your set.

Another thing to note is that in online multiplayer games 1 year is a short period of time.
 

ShakerSilver

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Strazdas said:
just like one doesnt need all champions. find 5-10 champions you enjoy playing with and your set.
It's not always that easy to do that when you're at the mercy of whatever champions Riot puts in free rotation at the time. Can't really try them all unless you do that grinding.
Another thing to note is that in online multiplayer games 1 year is a short period of time.
This is assuming that this is the only game you play for the whole year. Which again, sort of goes with your point about Riot wanting to be "the only ones".
 

Pedro The Hutt

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I think the smart thing for Riot to do would've been to say nothing at all as now they are looking all butthurt while still making money hand over fist. "Excuse me while I go wipe my tears in dollar bills", but hey, it wouldn't be the first time Riot has looked insincere.

And what hasn't been brought up yet is the whole Riot points system. In Dota 2, and various other games, if you want some cosmetics you just pay the price in your local currency. With Riot, no such thing, you convert money into Riot points, and conveniently the Riot points prices of stuff is set up in such a way that you'll never be able to spend everything down to the last point. So that that temptation is always there to get some more Riot points because hey, those points, and thus, your money, is just sitting there, doing nothing. And nobody likes wasted money. Only then they get baited into wasting even more money as it'll still result in a situation where they'll be left with leftover Riot points that just aren't enough to get you anything. So Riot is basically happily keeping your money hostage and trying to invoke Stockholm syndrome.
 

Retardinator

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The IP price of champions is a filter for idiots. It makes you play some actual games before you can familiarize yourself with stuff and make an informed decision (this pertains to both level 1 players and those who try out something new during the free weekend).
Runes can't be bought with RP, so they shouldn't even be a part of this discussion.
Skins are purely cosmetic and also shouldn't be a part of this discussion (also, let's remind ourselves that EVE Online charged 70$ for a monocle).

So tell me, do you prefer noobs playing a couple of games and not sucking with the champion they bought (or in the game in general), or do you prefer Russians instalocking 4 Drows and then leaving?

Or maybe you prefer paying for wallhacks ("UAV") in Combat Arms?

Not. Greedy.
 

Pedro The Hutt

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Casual racism, how nice.

You still don't explain why they can't just open up the whole champion pool right off the bat. Or why IP prices need to be so steep that you in case of the newer or more popular champions need to play well in excess of twenty games, and if you're someone who only has the time to one or two games per day that is quite a grind indeed, especially if you're only now getting into the game. So the only way to then build a reasonably sized pool of champions is to whip out that credit card and then get more Riot points than you can actually spend in the shop. So in essence they're overcharging you on every purchase you make, as explained in my above post. If that's not greedy I don't know what is.

And just because there's worse examples out there doesn't mean LoL's business model is good. Just because there's some hotels with leaky roofs, moldy beds and broken windows doesn't mean you have to content yourself with one where there's no heating.

(captcha: foul play, indeed~)