Lies they told you in history class

[GWarface]

Well, for a start you can try and find some info on Richard Krege.. He was the guy that did the ground and soil tests at Treblinka in 1999..

This would be the Richard Krege who's an electrical engineer and not a geophysicist or archaeologist, and whose supposed findings (as far as I can tell) have only been published in one place? That place being the non-peer-reviewed Journal of Historical Review, published by the Institute for Historical Review, an organization with ties to extreme right-wing and neo-Nazi groups? The Richard Krege who attended [http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/second-aussie-joins-holocaust-denial-conference/story-e6frg6nf-1111112684666] the Holocaust Denial Conference in Iran in 2006? The Richard Krege whose conclusions directly contradict the findings of the official investigation of Treblinka by Judge Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz in 1945?

Spoiler: An excerpted paragraph of the judge's conclusion.

In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay.

That Richard Krege? Yeah. If there's anything academia's taught me, it's that you really have to consider your sources.

Well, he might not be a geophysicist, but he had the equipment to test this stuff, and he didnt find anything..

And if life has taught me anything, it is to question official investigations, especially when they are made by the government or peope connected to that..
Because, you know.. They tend to warp the truth to their gain..

 

[Riddle78]

I was probably lied to,but I probably wouldn't know,and would probably fight in defense of the lies,because I don't know different. However,I do know the phrase involving history.

"History is written by the victor. History is full of liars."

 

[thevillageidiot13]

Well, while I agree that America was very happy as an isolationist nation, I don't agree that they should've stayed out of World War II. Certainly, international relations in the post-war World were very poorly-handled afterwards (read: the Cold War, Operation PBSUCCESS, the Vietnam War, etc.). But, for all the missteps and idiot moves our politicians made during WWII and the years afterwards, I'm very happy we contributed to the defeat of Nazi Germany.

I *do*, however, believe that the outcome of WWII would've been the same with or without American help. The Soviet Union had already done a spectacular job of fighting off hordes of Nazis (with the help of their notorious climate, of course). Afterwards, the Nazis were incredibly weak and vulnerable and their morale was rock bottom. The US just kinda swooped in and took all the credit at the last minute.

Also, my problem isn't so much that FDR *wanted* to join the war. It's that he failed to clarify the context in which Pearl Harbor occurred, instead choosing to simply let the American public believe that it was a totally unprovoked attack. I also didn't like the fact that he basically put 120,000 Japanese-Americans in what more-or-less amounts to a prison for 4 to 5 years.

For what it's worth, though, I like that the US was able to play a part (however small, and however blown-out-of-proportion) in the defeat of the Axis Powers. At the same time, I definitely agree with you: the US *really* dropped the ball with their whole "Truman Doctrine/Containment Policy" after WWII. We could've handled our problems with the Soviet Union in a more mature way, without dragging the rest of the planet into it.

Sorry but to me that all sounds like you're well aware of the huge problems caused by the U.S and it's eventual "interventionist" policies after the second world war, but that you pretty much ignore all those problems for the sake of being able to enjoy a little "glory" over taking part in defeating germany.

It's just as bad as those Gulf War supporters who basically just supported war because the war made them feel "good about themselves".

And in the allmighty words of the late comedian Bill Hick's: "If you want something that makes you feel good about yourself, may I suggest:... Sit-ups? Including more bran in your diet? Im not telling you how to live your life, i'm just putting out some suggestions there. Small little improvements to your life so that we can avoid a fucking conflagaration, okay?"

I didn't say that the Truman Doctrine and/or containment were acceptable consequences of us joining. Whatever good we did in WWII is overshadowed by the evils committed in the Cold War.

But you make the huge assumption that the Americans' joining the Allies in WWII is somehow inextricably connected to the international political fiasco that followed. It's not like us joining the Allied forces made Cold War inevitable. The Cold War was very much avoidable, and if we had been smarter about the post-war period and if we had made a better effort to be diplomatic with the Soviet Union after the war, the Cold War could've been avoided altogether.

Would I trade the glory of America's role in WWII in order to undo the horrors committed as a consequence of containment policies in the Cold War? Without blinking an eye, yes. But I don't *have* to make that trade, because the Cold War was not a direct, inevitable consequence of the US entering WWII. It was a consequence of us being stupid about our international politics once the war had already ended, when we were re-drawing all the borders and re-writing all the rules of politics.

You should definitely take the time to actually understand my perspective before you start getting all hostile with me. Your accusations and hostility are based on multiple assumptions, both about my opinions and about history, none of which are true. I was pretty much agreeing with you in saying that the Cold War is one of the darkest periods in American history, and you start calling me an idiot.

You made a huge mistake, first, by assuming that Cold War politics were a direct consequence of the U.S. entering the war, and, more importantly, by assuming that I think the glory of WWII was worth more than the lives ruined and taken by our containment policies. You made huge assumptions and huge mistakes in your criticism of me.

For the record, I view "containment" as a dirty word, because of the horrors done in its name. You insult me with your drastic assumptions and your errant conclusions. Don't ever dish out some quote to me in that condescending way again. Frankly, you're an imbecile, and I'd punch you in the face repeatedly if you were in front of me.

 

[Buzz Killington_v1legacy]

Well, he might not be a geophysicist, but he had the equipment to test this stuff, and he didnt find anything..

I can drive to a company in Reading with £7,000 and buy my own ground-penetrating radar equipment right now. It doesn't mean I have the expertise to use it, much less interpret the data that I get from it.

Again, Krege was an electrical engineer who seems to have worked mainly on air traffic control systems. One of the few scan images he released--tellingly, he doesn't seem to have released his actual raw scan data--was evaluated by a guy named book [http://mysite.du.edu/~lconyer/] on the subject.

What did Conyers have to say? He was quoted in a lengthy blog post [http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/05/mass-graves-at-nazi-extermination-camps.html#_Treblinka] about Treblinka (and three other concentration camp sites):

Spoiler: This is what Conyers said.

I looked at the web site, and the image you sent. It is only one small part of his 'grid'. The picture shows him using a 200 MHz antenna and collecting about 1 meter spaced transects in a huge grid. That image is not processed, and only shows about a 5 meter long section in one line. And even in that profile it looks like a bunch of "things" in the ground on the right hand side that could easily be mass graves. It is apparent that this guy either does not know anything of GPR, or at the very least does not know how to process it. To really do a good job, the data need to be put into a 3-D cube of reflections and processed in a batch, including ALL the profiles collected. If you really wanted to get to the bottom of this you either need to get his data and let someone else process it, or re-collect it all and re-process your own data. This is NOT a scientific or representative study of the ground by any stretch.

So, yeah. I don't know who's been giving you your Holocaust information, but whoever it is has seriously flawed sources.

 

[GWarface]

Well, he might not be a geophysicist, but he had the equipment to test this stuff, and he didnt find anything..

I can drive to a company in Reading with £7,000 and buy my own ground-penetrating radar equipment right now. It doesn't mean I have the expertise to use it, much less interpret the data that I get from it.

Again, Krege was an electrical engineer who seems to have worked mainly on air traffic control systems. One of the few scan images he released--tellingly, he doesn't seem to have released his actual raw scan data--was evaluated by a guy named book [http://mysite.du.edu/~lconyer/] on the subject.

What did Conyers have to say? He was quoted in a lengthy blog post [http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/05/mass-graves-at-nazi-extermination-camps.html#_Treblinka] about Treblinka (and three other concentration camp sites):

Spoiler: This is what Conyers said.

I looked at the web site, and the image you sent. It is only one small part of his 'grid'. The picture shows him using a 200 MHz antenna and collecting about 1 meter spaced transects in a huge grid. That image is not processed, and only shows about a 5 meter long section in one line. And even in that profile it looks like a bunch of "things" in the ground on the right hand side that could easily be mass graves. It is apparent that this guy either does not know anything of GPR, or at the very least does not know how to process it. To really do a good job, the data need to be put into a 3-D cube of reflections and processed in a batch, including ALL the profiles collected. If you really wanted to get to the bottom of this you either need to get his data and let someone else process it, or re-collect it all and re-process your own data. This is NOT a scientific or representative study of the ground by any stretch.

So, yeah. I don't know who's been giving you your Holocaust information, but whoever it is has seriously flawed sources.

Ok, im man enough to admit that i have been wrong, but it doesnt change my view on the holocaust being "hyped" up if you can call it that..

Many jews was hunted and killed, no doubt about it.. But i dont think that the bodycount was that high as we are being told..
As we have seen in this thread we are being fed a lot of false stuff, this should be no different..
The fact that in some countries you can get fined and jailed for saying this stuff, just shows that there might be something we arent being told..

 

[Treblaine]

Well, he might not be a geophysicist, but he had the equipment to test this stuff, and he didnt find anything..

I can drive to a company in Reading with £7,000 and buy my own ground-penetrating radar equipment right now. It doesn't mean I have the expertise to use it, much less interpret the data that I get from it.

Again, Krege was an electrical engineer who seems to have worked mainly on air traffic control systems. One of the few scan images he released--tellingly, he doesn't seem to have released his actual raw scan data--was evaluated by a guy named book [http://mysite.du.edu/~lconyer/] on the subject.

What did Conyers have to say? He was quoted in a lengthy blog post [http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/05/mass-graves-at-nazi-extermination-camps.html#_Treblinka] about Treblinka (and three other concentration camp sites):

Spoiler: This is what Conyers said.

I looked at the web site, and the image you sent. It is only one small part of his 'grid'. The picture shows him using a 200 MHz antenna and collecting about 1 meter spaced transects in a huge grid. That image is not processed, and only shows about a 5 meter long section in one line. And even in that profile it looks like a bunch of "things" in the ground on the right hand side that could easily be mass graves. It is apparent that this guy either does not know anything of GPR, or at the very least does not know how to process it. To really do a good job, the data need to be put into a 3-D cube of reflections and processed in a batch, including ALL the profiles collected. If you really wanted to get to the bottom of this you either need to get his data and let someone else process it, or re-collect it all and re-process your own data. This is NOT a scientific or representative study of the ground by any stretch.

So, yeah. I don't know who's been giving you your Holocaust information, but whoever it is has seriously flawed sources.

What can you say. Holocaust deniers "sceptics"; they make Creationists seem like Nobel Prize Laureates, by comparison.

 

[tseroff]

High School:
1. Pluto isn't a planet.

-snip-


Pluto really REALLY is not a planet.

Planets are not defined by "well I've always called it a planet", there is SCIENCE to this!

I know Pluto isn't a planet. But imagine that there is an adopted child who spends his whole life believing that he is his parents' biological son. If, at say, 18, he finds out otherwise, he's going to feel lied to and betrayed. He'll probably get over it eventually, but in the meantime, it's going to sting.

And that's how I feel.

 

[Caverat]

Did you actually read the link you posted, it does say that it is not known if a genocide took place, the theory of a genocide is the alternate one not the accepted one.

Yeah, I read it, it doesn't say what you claim.

Genocide

Whether Europeans committed genocide against the Native peoples has been a controversial topic. There are questions about its definition, and differing political agendas by parties to such discussion.[17] While some scholars believe that the Beothuk died out due to the elements noted above, another theory is that Europeans conducted a sustained campaign of genocide against them.

I see no mention of one theory being alternate or one being accepted. It seems that the claim of genocide is debated because of disagreements of the definition of genocide as it applies to this case. Like maybe some see genocide as meaning the active attempt to utterly wipe out an entire group, while there isn't strong evidence Europeans were attempting to kill all Beothuk, they just happened to be killing them. There were other contributing factors to their demise, small pox, TB, lack of access to food (Due to the presence of settlers).

Regardless, the page states the common occurrence of violence between Europeans and Beothuk, and that it was one sided as the Beothuk didn't wish to adopt firearms, and wanted nothing to do with Europeans in general.

 

[tseroff]

High School:
1. Pluto isn't a planet.

-snip-


Pluto really REALLY is not a planet.

Planets are not defined by "well I've always called it a planet", there is SCIENCE to this!

I know Pluto isn't a planet. But imagine that there is an adopted child who spends his whole life believing that he is his parents' biological son. If, at say, 18, he finds out otherwise, he's going to feel lied to and betrayed. He'll probably get over it eventually, but in the meantime, it's going to sting.

And that's how I feel.

lol no one cares about your opinion

That's what my therapist says too

 

[Supertegwyn]

High School:
1. Pluto isn't a planet.

-snip-


Pluto really REALLY is not a planet.

Planets are not defined by "well I've always called it a planet", there is SCIENCE to this!

I know Pluto isn't a planet. But imagine that there is an adopted child who spends his whole life believing that he is his parents' biological son. If, at say, 18, he finds out otherwise, he's going to feel lied to and betrayed. He'll probably get over it eventually, but in the meantime, it's going to sting.

And that's how I feel.

lol no one cares about your opinion

That was uncalled for.



[/quote]
Ok, im man enough to admit that i have been wrong, but it doesnt change my view on the holocaust being "hyped" up if you can call it that..

Many jews was hunted and killed, no doubt about it.. But i dont think that the bodycount was that high as we are being told..
As we have seen in this thread we are being fed a lot of false stuff, this should be no different..
The fact that in some countries you can get fined and jailed for saying this stuff, just shows that there might be something we arent being told..[/quote]
So you are saying that even though Adolf Eichmann, a high ranking Nazi official and one of the organizers of the Holocaust came out and said that roughly 6 million Jews were murdered, this is an overstatement? That even though there is evidence of these bodies that this is an overstatment?

 

[Treblaine]

High School:
1. Pluto isn't a planet.

-snip-


Pluto really REALLY is not a planet.

Planets are not defined by "well I've always called it a planet", there is SCIENCE to this!

I know Pluto isn't a planet. But imagine that there is an adopted child who spends his whole life believing that he is his parents' biological son. If, at say, 18, he finds out otherwise, he's going to feel lied to and betrayed. He'll probably get over it eventually, but in the meantime, it's going to sting.

And that's how I feel.

Yeaaaah...

Here is a tribute to all the "plutonians" who have may feel left out:

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Being told that when the colonists arrived in America, they and the Indians got along fine. And the Civil War was all about slavery. Yeah, that's pretty much bullshit...