Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

crimson5pheonix

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Yes, an article that goes over studies for surgical masks and concludes that they are mainly worn for tradition and "better safe than sorry" because the data says they don't really do anything somehow is "proof" that masks work...
And then cites studies showing masks work, because you only ctrl-f for parts you want to see.
 

Kwak

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Meanwhile, in the real world...

World-leading research has revealed the mandating of masks during Melbourne’s deadly second wave turned the pandemic “almost overnight”.
The study from the Burnet Institute and published in the journal PLOS ONE found that masks were the single most important control measure and “turned the epidemic around”.


 

Seanchaidh

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The Lancet

People who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety. The deficits were of substantial effect size for people who had been hospitalised (N = 192), but also for non-hospitalised cases who had biological confirmation of COVID-19 infection (N = 326). Analysing markers of premorbid intelligence did not support these differences being present prior to infection. Finer grained analysis of performance across sub-tests supported the hypothesis that COVID-19 has a multi-domain impact on human cognition.
I haven't the interest to read into the study in depth, but this seems pretty bad.

But muh personal liberties
 

Agema

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I haven't the interest to read into the study in depth, but this seems pretty bad.
Mm... I think I'd wait for some more confirmatory studies before I put too much weight on that.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Of course, Carlson will issue no retraction or apology, because he is an ambulatory pile of horse feces with a bad hairdo.

I haven't the interest to read into the study in depth, but this seems pretty bad.

But muh personal liberties
If it's any consolation, people who are still refusing the vaccine at this point are so stupid that "brain fog" probably won't make any noticeable difference.
 

Gergar12

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I am not wearing a mask after getting vaccinated with Pfizer. My state of Ohio also has low average case numbers. Idiots not getting vaccinated in Florida is not my problem.
 

CM156

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I am not wearing a mask after getting vaccinated with Pfizer. My state of Ohio also has low average case numbers. Idiots not getting vaccinated in Florida is not my problem.
I got the vaccine but I'm masking up again because the CDC says so. To be frank, I'm in contact with enough immunocompromised people on a semi-frequent basis that it just makes sense.
 

davidmc1158

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I got both of my Moderna shots back in June and am still masking up. Both are for the same reason, I am a member of the "immuno-compromised" demographic. It just seems to be common sense, anyways.
 

Dalisclock

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I'm vaccinated but right now our cases are rising rapidly, though it might be the rural counties on the far side of the state from me driving that. Still, I'd rather not risk it, considering I had a lung problem a month ago that sent me to the ER and that probably puts me at risk from covid. So mask back on when inside.

Honestly, I never really stopped in some cases. Work still requires Masks when not sitting at your desk. I already knew this shit wasn't over by a long shot. Me and the wife have been sick this last weekend and wife got a home covid test just in case. We both were negative, fortunately, so apparently it's a shitty summer cold.
 
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Dalisclock

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Of course, Carlson will issue no retraction or apology, because he is an ambulatory pile of horse feces with a bad hairdo.
Carleson is a professional troll with a TV Show. I have no idea if he believes the shit he spouts but it feels like his sole MO is to say stupid, offensive shit to rile people up.

I don't even bother reading the latest idiotic thing he's said anymore because there's a 95% chance it'll just be painful to read and I could be using that time to take a shit or read memes on reddit or anything else that's less of a waste of time.
 

Phoenixmgs

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And then cites studies showing masks work, because you only ctrl-f for parts you want to see.
Again, the point was there's no consistency in the studies (1 says they work, 1 says they don't) thus the conclusion is that we don't have evidence that they work. Why don't you CTRL-F and read the parts that don't say they work? I read both sides. You seem to only read the things that confirm your biases.


Meanwhile, in the real world...

World-leading research has revealed the mandating of masks during Melbourne’s deadly second wave turned the pandemic “almost overnight”.
The study from the Burnet Institute and published in the journal PLOS ONE found that masks were the single most important control measure and “turned the epidemic around”.

Or maybe is was all these other restrictions that turned the wave around...
  • People in these areas can only leave home for four reasons: shopping for food and supplies, outdoor exercise and recreation, medical care and caregiving, and study or work – if you can’t do it from home.
  • You cannot have visitors to your home except for caregiving or compassionate reasons or receiving services.
  • You cannot visit friends and family outside your home, except to see your intimate partner, for shared care arrangements, for caregiving or compassionate reasons, or providing services.
  • You should only exercise with the members of your household or one other person, and you should stay as close to home as possible.
  • From 11:59pm on Wednesday 22 July 2020 there are some extra restrictions that will apply:
    • When leaving home for one of the four reasons, people 12 years and older must wear a face covering, unless an exemption applies.
    • If you are in the car alone or with someone from your household, you do not need to wear a face covering. You should put your face covering on before you leave your car.
    • If you are doing strenuous physical exercise you do not need to wear a face covering but you must carry one with you. Strenuous exercise includes activities like jogging, running or cycling but not walking.
    • People who live in metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire must not attend a wedding outside these areas, unless they are working as the celebrant. The celebrant must wear a mask.
    • People who live in metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire cannot hold a wedding outside these areas, even if a booking has already been made.
Just look at the ridiculousness of some of those rules. You have to put a mask on BEFORE exiting your car. You don't have to mask if jogging or running but walking you need to have a mask on. Yeah, masking walkers outside or people walking from the car to the store is really lowering these transmission rates... :rolleyes:


Where's Agema with the criticism of how cherry-picked that JAMA study is? Like how all the studies were from last summer when cases were going down anyway. It's funny how these studies that look over months and months and months tend to not show any differences and you have to cherry-pick over short periods (that already had downward trends) to show masks working. Hell, the 1st study cited in Jama was the hair stylist study that says like nothing about how effective or not effective masks are because both stylists wore masks so there's not say an unmasked stylist and a masked stylist to compare. It says stylist A gave stylist B covid "because" they interacted without masks between clients. Ever think that working with someone for hours everyday is much more high risk for transmission than working with a client for a much shorter period of time? Who knows if not wearing masks caused the transmission or not, just like who knows if there'd be any transmission to the clients if they didn't wear masks with them. This is obviously an example of how not to do science.
 
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crimson5pheonix

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Again, the point was there's no consistency in the studies (1 says they work, 1 says they don't) thus the conclusion is that we don't have evidence that they work. Why don't you CTRL-F and read the parts that don't say they work? I read both sides. You seem to only read the things that confirm your biases.
No actually they pretty consistently say they do work apart from 1 or maybe 2 studies that aren't obviously cooked.
 
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Agema

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Where's Agema with the criticism of how cherry-picked that JAMA study is?
When writing a paper, the key point is to concisely assess the evidence to draw effective conclusions. Papers therefore do not go round filling their text and bibiliography with historical scientific arguments: they just state the facts and cite the winners, with the losers left to go unremarked on ever again.

We are at a point where there there is very low scientific resistance to the idea that masks help prevent spread of respiratory infections such as covid, which means that few papers will be interested in fighting a fight that's regarded as already over. Unless some compelling new evidence can blow the case wide open again, many studies will treat the effectiveness of masks as fact rather than debate.

This is the problem that you formed your opinion on masks a year ago. Since then, science has advanced but you have refused to advance with it.
 

CM156

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When writing a paper, the key point is to concisely assess the evidence to draw effective conclusions. Papers therefore do not go round filling their text and bibiliography with historical scientific arguments: they just state the facts and cite the winners, with the losers left to go unremarked on ever again.

We are at a point where there there is very low scientific resistance to the idea that masks help prevent spread of respiratory infections such as covid, which means that few papers will be interested in fighting a fight that's regarded as already over. Unless some compelling new evidence can blow the case wide open again, many studies will treat the effectiveness of masks as fact rather than debate.

This is the problem that you formed your opinion on masks a year ago. Since then, science has advanced but you have refused to advance with it.
Confirmation bias is one hell of a drug.
 

Seanchaidh

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Again, the point was there's no consistency in the studies (1 says they work, 1 says they don't) thus the conclusion is that we don't have evidence that they work. Why don't you CTRL-F and read the parts that don't say they work? I read both sides. You seem to only read the things that confirm your biases.

🤨
 

Phoenixmgs

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No actually they pretty consistently say they do work apart from 1 or maybe 2 studies that aren't obviously cooked.
They don't line up, that's why masks were never a thing before the pandemic.

When writing a paper, the key point is to concisely assess the evidence to draw effective conclusions. Papers therefore do not go round filling their text and bibiliography with historical scientific arguments: they just state the facts and cite the winners, with the losers left to go unremarked on ever again.

We are at a point where there there is very low scientific resistance to the idea that masks help prevent spread of respiratory infections such as covid, which means that few papers will be interested in fighting a fight that's regarded as already over. Unless some compelling new evidence can blow the case wide open again, many studies will treat the effectiveness of masks as fact rather than debate.

This is the problem that you formed your opinion on masks a year ago. Since then, science has advanced but you have refused to advance with it.
I was very much for masks a year ago because of "why not?" and "better safe than sorry" but now I'm like "prove it, it's been a year" and there's no proof. There's low resistance to not masking from public health officials because of the above reasons "why not?" and "better safe than sorry". If you haven't noticed, anyone that questions something that just might even ever-so-slightly lower safety, they get thrown under the bus like the experts that said kids don't need masks (cuz they don't) and Youtube removed their video. The hasn't been any actual studies on masks besides like observational. In the future, we're gonna be looked at as idiots because we had over a year and didn't even do the studies to show whether they worked or not. And all these mask studies people are posting are short-term observational studies that all coincidentally take place during a downturn in cases. When you look at the long-term, it shows places that masked and didn't mask did basically the same.
 
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CM156

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Masks were in use during the 1918 pandemic and have been in common use in East Asia during epidemics ever since.
And some of that East Asian influence had merged into the West prior to the pandemic. While this is only one example, several of the weebs at my college's anime club would wear masks (I assume because they were sick), influenced I assume from Japan.