Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

Agema

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I'm not for taking stupid levels of vitamin d
Yes, you are. Where, with appropriate and properly conducted medical consultation people are taking 000s of IUs a day that is fine, because that is a medical recommendation. For the average person on the street without a specific reason to justify it, stick to the generic guidelines which is also a medical recommendation.

Vitamin d should be pushed at least as much as masks and it's not pushed at all.
Blah blah blah uninformed ignorant opinion blah.

Where's the science that says covid spreads outside?
It's not my problem you can't interpret the science and don't want to listen when it is explained.

Why am I going to protect myself from something that rarely happens? I'm not with anyone for those time periods that a mask would help (according to Michael Osterholm). Like why am I gonna worry about someone cough or sneezing on me, that might happen like once a year where I walk by someone and they didn't realize it and cough/sneeze on me because they didn't know I was there. I can't even remember the last time I got coughed on or sneezed on so why would I care about it?
Oh my fucking god. It's like we haven't discussed this 100 times already. What is wrong with you?

Wear a mask in appropriate situations. Walking down a modestly busy street is not an environment where a mask is very unlikely to provide significant benefit. Being in an environment where people are in high density and at close proximity, the benefit it provides rise considerably - even if outside.

That HCQ paper you posted was bullshit.
Whichever one you're talking about (because given all the studies mentioned over the last 18 months "that HCQ paper" is a pathetically uninformative description typical of your incompetent discussion), no, it really isn't bullshit. It just doesn't say what you like or want and you're too lazy or dishonest to read this stuff up for yourself.

Let's be clear here. You started off saying that HCQ was a wonder drug based off studies we know are largely a crock of shit, and which plenty of people even around the time pointed out were likely to be dubious. That was your cognitive bias, because you failed to exercise adequate skepticism at the start. As the science has progressed and trashed everything you've claimed on HCQ, you've since spent the last year+ moving goalposts and re-writing history to cling on to initially ill-formed opinions and pretend that you weren't just wrong, all the way. Even where you have at least assimilated some new information which disproves your own earlier claims, your dishonest attempts to pretend you weren't wrong in the first place are just pathetic. Have some fucking humility and admit you fucked up, it's not going to kill you.

And it is obvious from your ivermectin and vitamin D wankery that you learnt nothing at all from your HCQ fiasco.

You're the one complaining about no "super-study".
Liar.

You say a drug is bad when there isn't enough data to prove it's bad. If you said we don't know, but you don't.
You're conflating the strict "final word" of scientific evidence and the evaluation of available evidence by a professional.

The scientific "proof" on ivermectin is yet to be fully determined. My professional judgement - and that of the vast majority of my peers - is that it is either a bust, or marginal. Certainly far short of FLCCC and BIRD cranks claim. I and others explain why we think that based on the data.

The fact you'd rather delude yourself that you are competent to assess the matter yourself and/or believe a bunch of anti-vaxxer-aligned cranks... well, that's your problem.
 

Chimpzy

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Jesus H. Fuck, they are gonna start pushing actual rat poison eventually, aren't they.
There is a heavily diluted mouth wash version of Betadine for relieving sore throat. Tho probably much like Ivermectin, they're using anything called Betadine, including the topical antiseptic that can apparently seriously mess up your organs if you were to start imbibing it, either intentionally or by accident.

I'm also guessing neither does jack shit against a Covid infection.
 

Agema

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There is a heavily diluted mouth wash version of Betadine for relieving sore throat. Tho probably much like Ivermectin, they're using anything called Betadine, including the topical antiseptic that can apparently seriously mess up your organs if you were to start imbibing it, either intentionally or by accident.

I'm also guessing neither does jack shit against a Covid infection.
Jesus fucking Christ. If you're going to try that, common or garden chlorhexidine (readily available in oral mouthwash formulations, e.g. Corsodyl) would probably do just as well as povidone iodine (the active ingredient in Betadine). But I guess that would just be too fucking easy, wouldn't it?

And for heaven's sake people, whichever one, don't drink it. You'd be pouring it into in the wrong system as SARS-CoV-2 is respiratory infection, not gastrointestinal.
 
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bluegate

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And for heaven's sake people, whichever one, don't drink it. You'd be pouring it into in the wrong system as SARS-CoV-2 is respiratory infection, not gastrointestinal.
So you're saying we should inhale it? I guess I'm off to the hookah shop then.
 
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McElroy

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Jesus H. Fuck, they are gonna start pushing actual rat poison eventually, aren't they.
That angle has been covered for 70 years.

I'm not for mandated vaccinations. Obligatory safety gear for the unvaccinated in the workplace though... I also don't find myself blaming individuals as much as many others in the thread. Now of course this isn't the US, but my threshold is at one knowingly being around people while sick or not getting tested or following quarantine after confirmed exposure. Other stupidity gets the Joker quote from me.
 

CriticalGaming

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Oddly enough, I feel the same way that I do with the mandates of vaccinations to get into school, as it was always law in New York:


The main thing that was ever harmed was people's egos who want to believe their personal sovereignty is more important than children's lives.

This planet is screwed because people didn't want anyone to tell them differently because they saw profit and/or they didn't want to change for whatever reason.

The US police force has become a mounting military power that has long moved on from flexing their might on just minorities, and have been moving to the majority as well.

We still have old men dictating what women can do with their bodies.

I feel opinions that lead to actual harm of others are opinions that have no weight and no laws should be based on them. Or how it should be always known, the Anti-Conservatives standpoint.
Which is funny because a bunch of health care workers in New York have resigned because of not getting vaccinated. There is a brand new thread about this now.

So here's the thing. If health care workers, presumably the people under the most stress from dealing with Covid, are not willing to get the shot. Then why would the general public feel like they should get the shot.

This isn't the same thing as immunizations for kids going to school. For starters those shots against Polio, TB, and other illness are immunization shots NOT vaccines. And on top of that, these are shots that have been tested and proven over decades to be safe and effective. The Covid shot, isn't effective, isn't tested, and was rushed out the door.

Secondly the whole idea behind the Covid shot was to be able to go out again, you're vaccinated it's cool, go out, no more masking, enjoy life again. Except....oh well we still have to wear fucking masks everywhere, and various states (the left ones) have mandates in place that make getting the shot serve no purpose. Plus the news keeps saying shit like, "Even if you are vaccinated you can infect others, and you can still get covid on top of that." Sure you can make the argument that you get a weaker smack in the face from the virus if you've had the shot. But you're talking about people who've been through the whole pandemic and haven't gotten covid at all, and asking them to purposefully expose themselves to the virus in vaccine form.

On top of even that. Reports have come out that say that if you got real covid, you are like 80% more immune to covid than anyone vaccinated with vaccine juice.

With all this how can anyone be surprised that people aren't willing to bother with a shot that doesn't seem to offer much upside? And even the important people, the people most exposed to this virus are also ignoring the vaccine.

All for a virus that has an extremely low risk rate for the vast majority of people. A rate which will decline further and further as medical experts figure out more and more effective treatments for the damn thing.

Government can demand all they want, but so long as the messaging continues to be mixed and contradictory you are just not going to win anyone over.
 

stroopwafel

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Which is funny because a bunch of health care workers in New York have resigned because of not getting vaccinated. There is a brand new thread about this now.

So here's the thing. If health care workers, presumably the people under the most stress from dealing with Covid, are not willing to get the shot. Then why would the general public feel like they should get the shot.

This isn't the same thing as immunizations for kids going to school. For starters those shots against Polio, TB, and other illness are immunization shots NOT vaccines. And on top of that, these are shots that have been tested and proven over decades to be safe and effective. The Covid shot, isn't effective, isn't tested, and was rushed out the door.

Secondly the whole idea behind the Covid shot was to be able to go out again, you're vaccinated it's cool, go out, no more masking, enjoy life again. Except....oh well we still have to wear fucking masks everywhere, and various states (the left ones) have mandates in place that make getting the shot serve no purpose. Plus the news keeps saying shit like, "Even if you are vaccinated you can infect others, and you can still get covid on top of that." Sure you can make the argument that you get a weaker smack in the face from the virus if you've had the shot. But you're talking about people who've been through the whole pandemic and haven't gotten covid at all, and asking them to purposefully expose themselves to the virus in vaccine form.

On top of even that. Reports have come out that say that if you got real covid, you are like 80% more immune to covid than anyone vaccinated with vaccine juice.

With all this how can anyone be surprised that people aren't willing to bother with a shot that doesn't seem to offer much upside? And even the important people, the people most exposed to this virus are also ignoring the vaccine.

All for a virus that has an extremely low risk rate for the vast majority of people. A rate which will decline further and further as medical experts figure out more and more effective treatments for the damn thing.

Government can demand all they want, but so long as the messaging continues to be mixed and contradictory you are just not going to win anyone over.
Good points but it's proven by now that the vaccines are safe and effective and that pretty much the only people who are still hospitalized with covid(let alone administered to an ICU) are pretty much all unvaccinated. And it's true ofcourse if you aren't of old age with relative normal weight the chances of severe complications from a covid infection are very small but it might be higher for your parents or other more vulnerable people you care about. So indirectly you're protecting them as well ofcourse b/c vaccination also significantly reduces transmission of viral loads onto others and when they themselves are also vaccinated the chances of anyone getting sick are marginal.
 

CriticalGaming

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Good points but it's proven by now that the vaccines are safe and effective and that pretty much the only people who are still hospitalized with covid(let alone administered to an ICU) are pretty much all unvaccinated. And it's true ofcourse if you aren't of old age with relative normal weight the chances of severe complications from a covid infection are very small but it might be higher for your parents or other more vulnerable people you care about. So indirectly you're protecting them as well ofcourse b/c vaccination also significantly reduces transmission of viral loads onto others and when they themselves are also vaccinated the chances of anyone getting sick are marginal.
I think if you are particularly vulnerable and you know it (I.E. if you are old, or have existing health problems) then you absolutely should protect yourself as much as possible and get the vaccine if your doctor says it's okay. Obviously excepts are with people who can't get it due to immunotherapy or what have you.

Additionally if you visit, or live with someone at risk and they can't get vaccinated, then you getting the shot would help.

However if you are young, healthy, and live alone or with other people at very low danger, then it should be freely up to you. Which is why I feel like personal choice is important. Protect yourself and don't worry about other people because you can't control other people in any 100% way. For as illegal as drunk driving is, people still die from drunk driving accidents every day.

So if you are elderly, or otherwise at risk. Minimize contact with people you don't know, wear protective equipment like gloves and masks when you go out. If that was the case, then everyone else could go about their lives like normal because the people in danger are protecting themselves, and the people not really at risk don't have to worry about it.

I don't have a fear of sharks because I don't fuck with the ocean. I don't fear bears because I don't go camping.

And then the counterpoint to my argument is that if everyone just wore masks and protected themselves, then it would better protect everyone. That's like saying well if everyone had a gun then nobody would have to worry about a crazy mass shooter. The logic doesn't track.
 

Dalisclock

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Oh, man, don't remind me. That freaking shot before boot camp? Yeah, anyone who has a problem with the vaccine needs to experience that shot to know how bad that particular cocktail is. Let's just say its nickname among us was "the peanut butter shot". Not because of the color, but because of the consistency.

Sorry, every time I see mention of military vaccines, I just...remember.
And it's amusing because many conservatives fetshtize the military, but they also get huffy about "Being told what to do" which is a core part of the military. And in the military you can't just quit because you don't like what your boss tells you to do.

I've also met people who believe people should be conscripted/drafted to "teach people to love the US/teach discipline" but also scream about mask/vaccine mandates, so it's okay to force people into the military(where they're have to wear a mask/get vaxxed) but not okay to tell people to wear a mask/get vaxxed.

The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

And just a slight correction, the PB shot is apparently an antibiotic cocktail to minimize everyone getting sick while everyone in the newly formed boot camp units(from vastly different parts of the country all sleeping in the same room for 2-3 months) but your point stands because you're still getting a bunch of vaccinations, both in boot camp and the military in general.
 
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Dalisclock

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I think if you are particularly vulnerable and you know it (I.E. if you are old, or have existing health problems) then you absolutely should protect yourself as much as possible and get the vaccine if your doctor says it's okay. Obviously excepts are with people who can't get it due to immunotherapy or what have you.

Additionally if you visit, or live with someone at risk and they can't get vaccinated, then you getting the shot would help.
You forget everyone below the age of 12. They can't get vaccinated yet. And you can't leave a 11 year old home alone to keep them away from people who may have covid.

Which is why we're having a big argument over wearing masks in schools in some states right now, because apparently keeping covid from spreading amongst the children and to their parents and grandparents. Hey Florida, didn't see you over there.

The problem with "Just take care of yourself, it doesn't matter what others do" mentality is it's a fucking virus, a couple dipshits who won't vax, won't wear masks and won't quarantine if they do get sick(for whatever reason, either because they have to work or "it's no big" deal) can be spread to so many other people. And the last 2 years have shown there's a LOT of people who don't want to follow the safety rules because "MY FREEDOM!" so the pandemic keeps on trucking with the help of the useful covidits of the world.
 

CriticalGaming

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You forget everyone below the age of 12. They can't get vaccinated yet. And you can't leave a 11 year old home alone to keep them away from people who may have covid.

Which is why we're having a big argument over wearing masks in schools in some states right now, because apparently keeping covid from spreading amongst the children and to their parents and grandparents. Hey Florida, didn't see you over there.
Did they ever figure out how kids interact with Covid. Because i remember at the beginning of all of this Covid didn't really mess with kids much if at all. They couldn't get it, couldn't spread it, and it was really confusing as to why they couldn't go to school if they seemed immune from the virus almost entirely.
 

thebobmaster

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Give the shits did it? :p
No. But it was injected in the buttocks, and let's just say that my plan to play it off like it was no big deal went out the window when my entire leg on that side of my body was numb within seconds.
 

thebobmaster

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Did they ever figure out how kids interact with Covid. Because i remember at the beginning of all of this Covid didn't really mess with kids much if at all. They couldn't get it, couldn't spread it, and it was really confusing as to why they couldn't go to school if they seemed immune from the virus almost entirely.

TL;DR version: A teacher in Marin County who was not vaccinated, and occasionally removed her mask to read aloud to students, ended up spreading COVID to 22 elementary school students. It seems that while the students got infected, none of them were severely sick, most reporting headaches/fevers or a cough.

However, this still shows that there is no magic age where you are immune to COVID, and the fact that these kids got sick because they were too young to be vaccinated due to the fact that their teacher wasn't vaccinated, shows why people who can get vaccinated should.

I didn't vaccinate because I thought I was at risk, at least not entirely. I vaccinated because my brother, while younger than me, is a habitual pot smoker, so COVID would hit him hard with his lungs already being in shaky condition. I vaccinated because my mother is over 50 years old. I vaccinated because my stepfather is also over 50 years old and diabetic. I vaccinated because my godsister has heart issues. Other than my brother, they've all been vaccinated as well, but I'm doing my part to protect others around me.
 

CriticalGaming

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However, this still shows that there is no magic age where you are immune to COVID, and the fact that these kids got sick because they were too young to be vaccinated due to the fact that their teacher wasn't vaccinated, shows why people who can get vaccinated should.
According to what reports are coming out though, you can spread the virus even while vaccinated. Just because you aren't sick from it doesnt mean you aren't spreading it. So if that is true, then the teacher being vaccinated is irrelevant because they would have spread the virus anyway. Which again is why I think there are so many people who aren't willing to get a vaccine that isn't really offering them much. If you get vaccinated and can still kill grandma with the virus, then what difference did the vaccine make?

I didn't vaccinate because I thought I was at risk, at least not entirely. I vaccinated because my brother, while younger than me, is a habitual pot smoker, so COVID would hit him hard with his lungs already being in shaky condition. I vaccinated because my mother is over 50 years old. I vaccinated because my stepfather is also over 50 years old and diabetic. I vaccinated because my godsister has heart issues. Other than my brother, they've all been vaccinated as well, but I'm doing my part to protect others around me.
See my reply above. You can still spread the virus even after vaccinated, so in theory the vaccine only protects the person who got the shot, not the people around you. If anything you put other people MORE at risk because you can spread it to people and not even know it. At least without the vaccine you are likely to get at least a big sick and might use that as a warning to quarantine yourself. But if you got the shot, you might go about spreading willy-nilly

So let's assume that is true and the vaccine helps the individual not get as fucked up on covid should they get it, can we then argue that the risk of not getting the shot is up to the person?

Because everyone says that getting vaccinated is that you protect others around you, but that's not true. You are still very much capable of spreading the virus after the shot, so you aren't protecting anyone but yourself by getting the shot.


While the CDC uses the term "Breakthrough infections" to talk about people still getting and spreading rona even after vaccination. There are no numbers, nothing to indicate just how rare these "breakthroughs" are. I remember seeing these infections happening on the news within days of the vaccine actually getting into the people's arms. Which means by sheer volume of numbers and how covid still is a problem even with a large portion of the public vaccinated, then this vaccine really doesn't seem to be all that effective of stopping the spread at all.

At best, yes this vaccine is doing a good enough job of letting people simply beat Covid with relative ease on their own, but it's doing nothing to slow the spread of it.
 

Chimpzy

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You know, in all of known history, humanity has only succeeded in the targeted worldwide eradication of a disease a grand total of two times. Just twice.

Smallpox and Rinderpest.

Both of these were at one time scourges on humanity, killing many thousands each year. The total death toll of Smallpox in particular possibly rivaling the f'ing Black Death. Both of these were eradicated within the last 50 years. Both of these were essentially eradicated through the same means: a concerted global initiative with widespread political and financial support to develop effective vaccines and distribute these to everyone we could, while containing any outbreaks, reducing the vectors for spreading as much as possible, until decades and a lot of effort later, we eventually did it. No more cases were being reported. We won. Unprecedented. A credit to human ingenuity, willpower and perseverance.

The last year and a half have convinced the cynic in me that such a victory may never happen again.
 
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Chimpzy

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Didn't we get rid of Polio too?
Nope, tho supposedly quite close. Less than a 100 recorded cases a year. Measles, Mumps and Rubella apparently also well underway.

All of them because of widespread vaccination efforts, btw.
 
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