Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

CriticalGaming

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:rolleyes:

Children.
I mean studies have been done on the improvements to air filterization on airplains and they are some of the safest possible breathing environments around. Masks are a giant pain in the ass for the length of any decent flight.

Not to mention the studies done that show that most masks haven't done anything to help for all sorts of reasons.

At the end of the day masks have just been theater and people know it. Hell look at how many times the people in charge of countries all over the world have been caught not wearing masks when they should have been. Even the "great" Dr. Fauci has been photographed numerous times not wearing his mask when he should have been. If the guy who should know more about this disease than anyone isn't all that strict on his mask useage, how do you expect anybody else to do it?

Covid as over as it is ever gonna get, people have very little fear of the virus left.

And when they get sick again or somebody that cares about dies, or they themselves in a near death state, then they'll start crying acting like victims. It's sad and pathetic.
It's like Buffalo on the African plains. They all go down to the watering hole where there MIGHT be Crocodiles. They drink, and when one of them gets grabbed by a croc they all scatter in a panic, but after a few minutes, they come back and drink.
 

CriticalGaming

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Because the virus gives a shit what we think, sure.
It does and also it knows not to infect people when you are sitting down. Which is why you have to wear a mask in a restuarant on the way to your table, but once at your table you don't need to wear your mask. Everybody knows that the virus can't get you while sitting down.

It's theater, it's always been theater.

And the masks that do help, were not disposable masks which the vast majority of people wore. Not to mention that people also didn't throw away their masks after a single use as they should have (most people at least). The only masks that did anything were N95 or better level masks, but the messaging for that never got widespread to people because even the N95's weren't all that great.

Fact of the matter was the most covid transmission happened within households, not out in public doing public things.

Speaking of airplanes I had to flying from California to Tennessee in November of 2020 during the height of the pandemic. All over the airpost they had stickers that marked social distancing for people. There were bags over every other seat at the terminals to keep people apart. Which makes sense for social distancing right? However the airplane filled every single seat on the flight, putting people shoulder to shoulder with each other, because for some reason social distancing suddenly doesn't matter on a 6 hours flight.

Fucking theater. Rules that were made up and inconsistant and nonsensical in a lot of ways.
 
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CriticalGaming

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That it was applied inconsistently does not mean that masks do not work. Don't be like Phoenix.
Some masks work, like the N95 masks. Every study on masks says that the dispoosible masks and cloth masks were extremely minor in effectiveness.

However...I will admit there is evidence of a placebo effect with the masks. As the masks served as an annoying reminder that there is a pandemic going on and thus created a cultural change in behaviors that kept people taking more precautions like hand sanitizer, distancings, etc and that sort of thing. Thus the masks were effective not because of the mask, but because of what the masks represented.
 

Agema

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It's theater, it's always been theater.
Well, no.

The point is that somewhere along the line, science has to translate into policy. But the public don't necessarily respond to pure science: some things science might suggest are not practical, or would be popularly rejected, or principles that don't have exact figures need to be translated into some sort of workable practice. There is also some guesswork, precautions which turn out to be unnecessary when more data is in, etc.

For instance, when the UK created a restriction of 6 people in a gathering, there was no precise science saying "6 people". There was however a clear scientific understanding that large gatherings pose a substantial risk. So they just pick a reasonable number that allows people to meet and do stuff, but is limited to restrict mass spread.

So the connection between science and policy is never going to be seamless: gaps will exist. There is room for constructive debate and criticism. There are, however, also an awful lot of people who have axes to grind because they weren't allowed to pack their minimum wage workers into factories to make widgets, or couldn't go to the pub whenever they liked, or they just resented sticking a piece of fabric on their face. And they're the people sticking their fingers into those gaps and levering for all they're worth to make us believe it was all a complete waste of time, nothing worked, gubmint is evil, etc. They are a form of extremist, with all the bullshit that entails.
 

Buyetyen

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Some masks work, like the N95 masks. Every study on masks says that the dispoosible masks and cloth masks were extremely minor in effectiveness.

However...I will admit there is evidence of a placebo effect with the masks. As the masks served as an annoying reminder that there is a pandemic going on and thus created a cultural change in behaviors that kept people taking more precautions like hand sanitizer, distancings, etc and that sort of thing. Thus the masks were effective not because of the mask, but because of what the masks represented.
This is the closest I'm going to get to you saying something half-way reasonable, so I'm just going to take it and move on.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Still wrong.
Great argument, that's the way Trump argues things.

Swear to god, these people are always shocked when cases rise two weeks after cutting back regulations.

They'd be burning mosquito nets if this was malaria
Cases have risen and fallen irregardless of regulations for 2 years... Cases will rise in the south during the summer when it gets real hot because people go inside while cases will be low in the north during the summer because everyone goes outside just like it was the last 2 summers.

And you wanna know why cases "seem" to go back up when cutting back regulations? Because regulations get cut when cases have bottomed out, there's no place to go but up.

That it was applied inconsistently does not mean that masks do not work. Don't be like Phoenix.
Show me a study with good methods that say masks work cuz I'm still waiting on that which has never been produced pre or post covid.

Well, no.

The point is that somewhere along the line, science has to translate into policy. But the public don't necessarily respond to pure science: some things science might suggest are not practical, or would be popularly rejected, or principles that don't have exact figures need to be translated into some sort of workable practice. There is also some guesswork, precautions which turn out to be unnecessary when more data is in, etc.

For instance, when the UK created a restriction of 6 people in a gathering, there was no precise science saying "6 people". There was however a clear scientific understanding that large gatherings pose a substantial risk. So they just pick a reasonable number that allows people to meet and do stuff, but is limited to restrict mass spread.

So the connection between science and policy is never going to be seamless: gaps will exist. There is room for constructive debate and criticism. There are, however, also an awful lot of people who have axes to grind because they weren't allowed to pack their minimum wage workers into factories to make widgets, or couldn't go to the pub whenever they liked, or they just resented sticking a piece of fabric on their face. And they're the people sticking their fingers into those gaps and levering for all they're worth to make us believe it was all a complete waste of time, nothing worked, gubmint is evil, etc. They are a form of extremist, with all the bullshit that entails.
The stuff like the 6 people thing is what makes people call bullshit on it all. It was 6 people whether you're inside in a cramped room or in some spacious mansion dining room or outside (liberal cities closed beaches for no reason, which only increased the spread). There was clear scientific understanding that being outside is safe before the virus even got to the West, same with it not spreading on surfaces (yet wash your hands and use sanitizer constantly that did nothing but make you more sick in the long run).
 

Buyetyen

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Show me a study with good methods that say masks work cuz I'm still waiting on that which has never been produced pre or post covid.
The studies have been produced, you just ignored them. Again, if you wanted to have a legit conversation, you shouldn't have made it so well-known how dishonest you are.
 

CriticalGaming

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The studies have been produced, you just ignored them. Again, if you wanted to have a legit conversation, you shouldn't have made it so well-known how dishonest you are.
I did look for studies but every study I found was inconclusive based on the factor of having too small of a sample size. Under small sample sizes there is suggestion that masks work, but the problem is that the type of masks people generally used throughout are too varied for a massive study to showcase anything. Medical staff have special and consistant equipment that combine to prevent spread of infection as hospitals by nature are designed and sanitized to keep risk of infection spread low, so hospitals can't be used as mask data because they are combining masks with too many other precautions.

I couldn't find any study back a few posts ago when we were talking about it, so I didn't link any of them. The studies I did find all suggested that basic cloth masks are only minorly effective in stopping Covid, while other masks like surgical or N95 type masks were much better protection. Which is why I came to the suggestion that the effect of the cloth masks was because of a shift in behavior more than it was the mask itself doing any actual work.