Listing The Conservatives' efforts of suppressing the American ability to Vote.

dreng3

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By "is it", I meant "Is this voter suppression by the republican party?", not "is this where I follow up by asking the same question I did when I posted the image?"

To be crystal clear: Is this voter suppression by the republican party?
In all likelihood, yes. Early voting starts october 13th and ballots must be in by november 3rd when polling places close, but I'll call it midnight to make the math easier.
That's a total of 22 days in which you can drop off ballots. But since there is talk of allowing drop offs as soon as you receive the ballot (I couldn't find out whether this is actually being done, but I'll be generous), we'll go with the 30 days that are the minimum for arrival of mail in ballots.
30 days is 43,200 minutes. Should every registered voter in Harris county (2,357,199 voters by 2018 numbers) decide to use the option that single box would have to serve more than 50 voters per minute, for the entire duration of the 30 days.

Even if it is only 10% of the registered voters that decide to use the box it will become impossible, logistically speaking. And since republicans tend to have more sway in rural areas they will experience nowhere near the same problems.

Is it voter suppression? Not sure, probably.
Is it acting in bad faith and harming the democratic process? Sure is.
 

Houseman

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In all likelihood, yes. Early voting starts october 13th and ballots must be in by november 3rd when polling places close, but I'll call it midnight to make the math easier.
That's a total of 22 days in which you can drop off ballots. But since there is talk of allowing drop offs as soon as you receive the ballot (I couldn't find out whether this is actually being done, but I'll be generous), we'll go with the 30 days that are the minimum for arrival of mail in ballots.
30 days is 43,200 minutes. Should every registered voter in Harris county (2,357,199 voters by 2018 numbers) decide to use the option that single box would have to serve more than 50 voters per minute, for the entire duration of the 30 days.

Even if it is only 10% of the registered voters that decide to use the box it will become impossible, logistically speaking. And since republicans tend to have more sway in rural areas they will experience nowhere near the same problems.

Is it voter suppression? Not sure, probably.
Is it acting in bad faith and harming the democratic process? Sure is.
But you can also just put those ballots in the mail, right?
 

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But you can also just put those ballots in the mail, right?
Not in all states. It varies by state. If you're not approved for absentee voting by mail then no, you have to drop off your ballot.
In Texas, you can only vote by mail for example:
  • be 65 years or older;
  • be sick or disabled;
  • be out of the county on election day and during the period for early voting by personal appearance; or
  • be confined in jail, but otherwise eligible.

You have to be able provide proof, and be approved in advance so if you had a recent change in your condition, unable to provide proof ( not be able to get in to see your doctor in time to provide a note, or you just fell off a ladder or something, for example) you could be screwed.
 

Houseman

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Okay, so Absentee voting is something you may be able to do by mail, if you meet certain conditions
But otherwise, you have to vote "normally"?

And early voting is not necessarily absentee voting?

Because I'm looking at this page and it shows only one ballot drop-off location, which I assume is for absentee voting NOT done through mail?
But then there are 121 OTHER "early voting" locations, presumably for non-absentee voting. Things like 24-hour locations, and drive-thru locations.

So I don't understand what the fuss is about. If you can't mail it in, and you can't make it to this one ballot drop-off location, couldn't you make it to any one of these other 24-hour or drive-thru locations instead? Are those not options for certain people?
 

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Okay, so Absentee voting is something you may be able to do by mail, if you meet certain conditions
But otherwise, you have to vote "normally"?

And early voting is not necessarily absentee voting?

Because I'm looking at this page and it shows only one ballot drop-off location, which I assume is for absentee voting NOT done through mail?
But then there are 121 OTHER "early voting" locations, presumably for non-absentee voting. Things like 24-hour locations, and drive-thru locations.

So I don't understand what the fuss is about. If you can't mail it in, and you can't make it to this one ballot drop-off location, couldn't you make it to any one of these other 24-hour or drive-thru locations instead? Are those not options for certain people?
If your not eligible to vote by mail through absentee voting then you have to use the drop box or vote the regular way. They put the drop boxes in only due the pandemic, and just being vulnerable doesn't make you qualify to mail the ballot. So even if you have preexisting conditions that could put you at risk of death from COVID-19, you still may have to stand in a line of people who could infect you just to put your ballot in a stupid drop box because that still isn't considered eligible for absentee voting. If they would just allow people to mail their ballots like other's do or put in more drop boxes, that wouldn't be a problem.

Wouldn't you have to have a car to use a drive thru location? What about all the people who are not fortunate to own a car and have to use public transport? Then you have the problem of forcing vulnerable people to use public transport , which is even worse than standing in line to vote. How does anyone vulnerable who cannot afford a car "make it" to any of these places safely in the first place?
 

Houseman

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So even if you have preexisting conditions that could put you at risk of death from COVID-19, you still may have to stand in a line of people who could infect you just to put your ballot in a stupid drop box
The map says that there are 10 drive-thru locations for both early and election-day voting.

People can also use these options instead of the booth, right?
 

Cheetodust

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The map says that there are 10 drive-thru locations for both early and election-day voting.

People can also use these options instead of the booth, right?
I mean in the post you snipped your quote from Lil explained the issue with drive-thru locations...
 

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I mean in the post you snipped your quote from Lil explained the issue with drive-thru locations...
Also, look at the population size of the county to ONLY have 10 locations. Aren't they going to have the same problem the drive thru state fair food had where people run out of gas in line like that? Cars can't wait forever in line without running out of gas..

 

Houseman

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Wouldn't you have to have a car to use a drive thru location? What about all the people who are not fortunate to own a car and have to use public transport? Then you have the problem of forcing vulnerable people to use public transport , which is even worse than standing in line to vote. How does anyone vulnerable who cannot afford a car "make it" to any of these places safely in the first place?
If they're that vulnerable then they should get approved for an absentee ballot.

I mean in the post you snipped your quote from Lil explained the issue with drive-thru locations...
Yes, she edited her post after I had already posted mine. She has a habit of making multiple edits per post.

Also, look at the size of the county to ONLY have 10 locations. Aren't they going to have the same problem the drive thru state fair food had where people run out of gas in line like that? Cars can't wait forever in line without running out of gas..
That's why early voting in Harris county goes from October 13th to October 30th. There's a possibility that you can show up at any of these 100+ locations and there will be a very small line, if any.

If you're doing drive thru, you can always turn the engine if you're waiting in line, can't you? People even do that at McDonald's. But I suppose you need your car on to provide air conditioning, or something?
 

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If they're that vulnerable then they should get approved for an absentee ballot.



Yes, she edited her post after I had already posted mine. She has a habit of making multiple edits per post.



That's why early voting in Harris county goes from October 13th to October 30th. There's a possibility that you can show up at any of these 100+ locations and there will be a very small line, if any.

If you're doing drive thru, you can always turn the engine if you're waiting in line, can't you? People even do that at McDonald's. But I suppose you need your car on to provide air conditioning, or something?
Think about the chain of events that takes place here:
*You have to get a Doctor's note.
*You have to make a doctor's appointment to be able to obtain a doctor's note, often having to make them week's/month's out in advance.
*It costs money to see the doctor.
*People are unemployed and lost their insurance and income right now, meaning, they do not have money for a doctor right now nor do they have money for transportation to the doctor right now. Remember the unemployment& Eviction crisis going on right now? Yea. THAT.

ALso, the lines being long, that doesn't mean they are stopped a long time, it is like being in traffic. Turning your car off and on and off and on quickly like that you are going to F up your car. Then you're going to have all the cars breaking down in line and having the starters go out and shit doing that stupidness making it take even longer. You aren't waiting on a McDonalds order, you're handing them ballots and showing ID's. The line being long just means you have to keep the car running, like when picking up kids from school, but a MUCH longer line. Even picking up kids from school can take hours, but this is like a school with tens of thousands of kids needing to be picked up.. Like a nightmare scenario. You aren't stopped long it is just brief stops but a crap ton of them.
 
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Houseman

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Think about the chain of events that takes place here:
*You have to get a Doctor's note.
*You have to make a doctor's appointment to be able to obtain a doctor's note, often having to make them week's/month's out in advance.
*It costs money to see the doctor.
*People are unemployed and lost their insurance and income right now, meaning, they do not have money for a doctor right now nor do they have money for transportation to the doctor right now. Remember the unemployment& Eviction crisis going on right now? Yea. THAT.
So I'm looking up information on how to register for an absentee ballot in Harris County, and I'm not seeing anything about a "doctor's note". Where are you getting this requirement from?

If you have a pre-existing medical condition, shouldn't you already have an "on-record" doctor's note in your medical history?
If you don't have a pre-existing medical condition, then are you as really as "vulnerable" as you think you are? Just because one is scared of the virus is not sufficient (their words, not mine)

ALso, the lines being long, that doesn't mean they are stopped a long time, it is like being in traffic. Turning your car off and on and off and on quickly like that you are going to F up your car. Then you're going to have all the cars breaking down in line and having the starters go out and shit doing that stupidness making it take even longer. You aren't waiting on a McDonalds order, your handing them votes and showing ID's. The line being long just means you have to keep the car running, like when picking up kids from school, but a MUCH longer line. Even picking up kids from school can take hours, but this is like a school with hundreds of thousands of kids needing to be picked up.. Like a nightmare scenario.
Interesting, but none of that is relevant since you have half a month to visit one of these early voting drive-thru stations. At that point, it's your own fault for waiting until the last minute.
 

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So I'm looking up information on how to register for an absentee ballot in Harris County, and I'm not seeing anything about a "doctor's note". Where are you getting this requirement from?

If you have a pre-existing medical condition, shouldn't you already have an "on-record" doctor's note in your medical history?
If you don't have a pre-existing medical condition, then are you as really as "vulnerable" as you think you are? Just because one is scared of the virus is not sufficient (their words, not mine)



Interesting, but none of that is relevant since you have half a month to visit one of these early voting drive-thru stations. At that point, it's your own fault for waiting until the last minute.
At our Free Clinic and when I worked at the shelter, most of the poor and homeless that were disabled could not afford to see a physician to even have their disability documented. The other issue is that they have to have a doctor WILLING to jump through the hoops and take the time to fill out the paperwork and go through the back and forth hassle with the Social security disability administration to even have someone declared disabled. It costs money and a ton of time. It is difficult for them to even see a doctor at all, let alone one willing to do that for them, or can even do that for them. In the case of the homeless, we do not even know where to find them again or IF we can find them again.

When I was helping my father file for his disability after he had a series of strokes that impaired him, His Neurologist had to fill out his paperwork, send them copies of his records, all images ect. Then SSDI said that was not enough for them to make a decision so they had to send in more information and also get his file from his primary care Physician's office, who had died, which was difficult to obtain as his daughter had put all the records in a storage unit after he died, but we finally managed to obtain that for a FEE. Then we sent all that in. Then they said they needed more AGAIN. So they made him an appointment to see another doctor who did a physical exam on him and they made him another appointment for a psychologist who had him take more tests. Then when we informed his Neurologists what we were still going through, she became agitated with them and wrote them an additional letter making it perfectly clear HOW disabled he actually was and summarizing his file for them to plainly see what was wrong with him and that he was indisputably disabled. It still took 6 months to get a ruling from SSDI, and even longer for him to receive his first disability payment. On top of the doctors visits, records costs, and numerous calls to get through that part, we ALSO had to visit the Social security office repeatedly and wait in long lines throughout this process.

Poor, sick, injured people do not even have access to those resources to even be able to FILE for disability. To actually be declared disabled is difficult, and near impossible for someone without help or resources to be able to do on their own. Without me to do that with my Dad, he wouldn't even have been able to file at all. There are millions of people who do not have access to those resources to even do that. It isn't as easy as you make it out to be.

It is like you thinking it would be easy for my Mom to get an ID, My Mom was born on an Native American Indian reservation. Documents are not the same as the rest of the US, The documents she originally had were in a box in her closet that was ruined when my brother overflowed the bathtub when he was 7. It isn't easy to travel back to the reservation to try and obtain the necessary documents to be able to do so at all and Native Americans run into problems that others do not when trying to obtain documents due to the county clerks not even understanding the laws/rules pertaining to Native Americans. So in answer to your other question earlier, No it isn't easy to get my Mom an ID. Even more difficult during a Pandemic, as the reservation is closed due to the Pandemic, so it may not even be possible to do at all right now. Some Native Americans have been waiting decades to receive their documents. It is not an easy process and we would have to be able to take her multiple states away to do so.


People who do not have money to buy food, pay their utility bills, pay rent are not going to have money, or resources to do any of these things. These are obstacles that will prevent the poor and minorities from being able to vote at all, and yes a form of voter suppression.
 
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Houseman

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Poor, sick, injured people do not even have access to those resources to even be able to FILE for disability. To actually be declared disabled is difficult, and near impossible for someone without help or resources to be able to do on their own. Without me to do that with my Dad, he wouldn't even have been able to file at all. There are millions of people who do not have access to those resources to even do that. It isn't as easy as you make it out to be.
1) You never answered the question about needing a doctor's note. None of this is relevant unless you actually need a doctor's note. So can you show me where that is listed as a requirement?

2) Nobody said anything about filing for disability. I'm sure that's one way to qualify for voting by mail, but that is not the only way. "Under Texas law, you qualify as having a disability if you are sick, pregnant, or if voting in person will create a likelihood of injury to your health."

It is like you thinking it would be easy for my Mom to get an ID
Oh yeah, I remember asking you if it would be particularly difficult, and you never answered. Until now. Thanks for answering the question.

I suppose that's what you (plural) get for living in your own sovereign territory. Kind of a self-inflicted wound. You're not fully integrated with "the system" because you (plural) chose to live apart from it.
 

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1) You never answered the question about needing a doctor's note. None of this is relevant unless you actually need a doctor's note. So can you show me where that is listed as a requirement?

2) Nobody said anything about filing for disability. I'm sure that's one way to qualify for voting by mail, but that is not the only way. "Under Texas law, you qualify as having a disability if you are sick, pregnant, or if voting in person will create a likelihood of injury to your health."



Oh yeah, I remember asking you if it would be particularly difficult, and you never answered. Until now. Thanks for answering the question.

I suppose that's what you (plural) get for living in your own sovereign territory. Kind of a self-inflicted wound. You're not fully integrated with "the system" because you (plural) chose to live apart from it.
1) They apparently amended the state code in 1981 to not require proof of eligibility for disability, my mother already had provided proof by that point though so she was already in the system that way. However, how do they determine who is not eligible without requiring proof?

2)You ( plural) as in Native Americans? Native Americans are guaranteed US citizenship under the US constitution. The US constitution is who determined tribes as being sovereign nations. There was never a choice given FYI. Native Americans didn't write the US constitution. Tribes were never given a choice. I chose where I was born as much as you did and tbh that is a really ignorant thing to say in the first place. My mom has been able to receive her retirement benefits and Medicare without ever requiring a US photo ID.
 

Houseman

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However, how do they determine who is not eligible without requiring proof?
I suppose they just take people at their word.


There was never a choice given FYI
One could move out of the reservation and get established under the authority of the state, which is what I presume either you or your family did at one point. That's the choice I meant. Having a birth at home and not getting a child documented is a choice that the parents made. Collectively speaking, not living under the system is a choice.
 

lil devils x

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I suppose they just take people at their word.




One could move out of the reservation and get established under the authority of the state, which is what I presume either you or your family did at one point. That's the choice I meant. Having a birth at home and not getting a child documented is a choice that the parents made. Collectively speaking, not living under the system is a choice.
There is the " traditionalists" part of the reservation without electricity, running water where the people pretty much still live as they have for thousands of years..
Many of my relatives still live there as I am from the Bear Clan, the first clan, from our history, was the original clan who settled there after the great migrations and were who welcomed the Navajo and gave them their name when they came across the Bering Strait. My tribe has never been relocated and still live in the single longest continuously inhabited settlement in North America. So yea, they made a decision to live there thousands of years ago. That is somehow wrong or something in your mind?

When the US military came to meet our people, the US military agreed to leave our people in peace.
 

Houseman

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That is somehow wrong or something in your mind?
I never made any statement as to the wrongness or rightness of your tribe's choice to live apart from society.

It's just that they don't get to complain when it comes time to register for absentee voting. Their inability to register due to lacking valid photo id, would be, in that sense, their own fault.
 

Revnak

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I never made any statement as to the wrongness or rightness of your tribe's choice to live apart from society.
Thatโ€™s good because they didnโ€™t get much say in being part of it I imagine.
It's just that they don't get to complain when it comes time to register for absentee voting. Their inability to register due to lacking valid photo id, would be, in that sense, their own fault.
Oh... oh so you do have an opinion on the matter.
 

Houseman

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Oh... oh so you do have an opinion on the matter.
Not as to the morality of living apart from society, just the morality of complaining about having to jump through hoops in order to participate in the society that you made a choice not to be a part of, and calling that voter suppression. Just that last bit.
 

Avnger

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Not as to the morality of living apart from society, just the morality of complaining about having to jump through hoops in order to participate in the society that you made a choice not to be a part of, and calling that voter suppression. Just that last bit.