LMGs = RAGE!

[Geo Da Sponge]

I think people are forgetting how guns work
When you pull the trigger, the bullet travels in a straight line down and out the barrel. Now, unless BC2 has you account for gravity or wind, it will go in a straight line out the barrel until it hits something. => If you're looking down the barrel when the guy pulls the trigger, it doesn't matter if you're far away, if the guy is using a sniper rifle, an LMG, or a pistol; no magical bullet fairies are going to come down from a rainbow and change the path of the bullet.

/realismFTW

Actually that's not quite true, very few bullets travel in a flat trajectory because very few barrels are actually made to be perfectly level. Most firearms are designed to discharge the bullet at an angle so that with spin stabilized rifling they can fire at targets at farther ranges. This results in bullets that fly along parabolic arcs.

This becomes especially important when your aiming because you can only every zero at a single range. So an m-16 zeroed to 300m would aim for center mass at 300m, but at 150m aiming for the same spot would cause it to striker higher on the target, i.e., not a straight line from the barrel.

I always wondered why bullets fired from sniper rifles go where the sight shows rather than a few centimetres below it which would correspond with the barrel of the rifle. Thanks for that.

 

[Platypusbill101]

I bet half the people in this thread have never played BC2.

I also bet even fewer have actually used the M60. It was (when I last played it, a while ago) the best weapon in the game by far. Pinpoint accurate with barely any recoil, and it killed in 3 shots or so too.

Only gun a Medic needed to use really. Made me top the scoreboard most games.

First its damage was 25-20 (4-5 shots to kill) then after a patch 20-16.7 (5-6 shots to kill) then afer another patch 16.7-14.3 (6-7 shots to kill)so now it is basically a slower but more accurate version of the PKM

 

[Hachura]

I don't play BC2 anymore (not enough Squad Rush matches going on when I have time to play), but from what I remember, the LMGs were all okay except for the M60. The pig was overwhelmingly more accurate than all the other LMGs.

I'm no expert, but apart from providing sustained suppressing fire (which is an MG's primary purpose), some modern LMGs are capable of long-distance engagements when fired in single shot, not sniping, but relatively accurate distant shots.

I believe it to be the case that too many movies and FPSs (sans Rainbow Six) have depicted machine guns to be incredibly powerful, wildly-inaccurate close-range, Rambo-style slaughter machines. Fresh-faced gamers then see this and probably believe it to be true in real-life, thus resulting in this common misconception.

/$0.02

 

[deadxero]

No they're not, in fact I have a tendancy to run with an M14 or G3 rather than an LMG. About the only area in which they excell, over other weapons, is their ability to maintain a spray at close range. Almost every gun in BC2 can snipe... hell an UZI can snipe as well as most LMG's. And no that's not an exageration, 3 bursts from an UZI will drop a target at 100 yards+... unless your aim sucks.

 

[AnAngryMoose]

Hold it!

So you're saying that medics don't deserve the coolest weapons in the game?

*bangs table*

Goddammit if they have to look after all the other assholes on their team they deserve the coolest weapons!

The problem is that they only look after themselves for the most part.

I wasn't too keen on them myself.

Too accurate I find.

I think it's ridiculous that they more accurate the longer you fire them.

 

[Serenegoose]

How can you get 'sniped from afar' by a gun that doesn't kill in one bullet? The moment the first thing grazes you, STRAFE WILDLY or HIDE BEHIND SOMETHING. You'll find that they soon can't touch you. I'm genuinely confused here because I almost never get killed by weapons other than sniper rifles at long range, since I start looking for cover after the first indication some bugger is shooting at me and I ought to evade. Actually, since they patched the M60 a while ago, I basically find the balance fine, potentially finding the SMGs a little overpowered. (decent damage and no muzzle flash, with great accuracy? Yes please.) I'm not trying to sound nasty here, and I'm aware that I am anyway, but I'm truly not, but most military theory is about moving moving moving these days. If you're sitting at a window, under a rock, behind some sandbags, or where you're 'hidden' you will die when someone spots you. Stop only long enough to fire, and LMGs, especially at range, won't be so threatening anymore. They'll shred you at close range if they get a chance to open fire, but then, to be expected, eh?

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

Not that I've played Bad Company, but who's this Lieutenant Marzipan Gorilla you're talking about?

I see what you did there.

But on topic, I've sniped with LMGs before, on other games. All you need to do is not be out in the open, and all they need to do is not fire like a maniac and actually have some patience.

The irony of it is that for all the quoting, no one has actually told me what an LMG is.

A light machine gun is a machine gun crewed by one man which can be carried easily around the battlefield. It fires the same rounds as you would find in a rifle such as an M16 or G36 or FAMAS.

It's separated from a submachine gun in that SMGs carry pistol rounds, and heavy machine guns in that HMG are are too cumbersome to quickly move and sometimes require a crew of more than one person. To give you an idea of the differences in size, the US army's M249 is a LMG which weighs 22lbs. The US army's M2 heavy machine gun weighs almost 90lbs not counting the tripod. Adding one of those puts it above 100lbs.

The designations are sometimes blurry because when they were made, in WW1, it was easy to tell the difference. No one carried around automatic rifles. Nowadays, there are assault rifles which can be modified for use as an LMG.

Isn't the technical distinction between an assault/battle rifle and an LMG that A/B rifles have a sliding bolt that overheats easily if fired on full auto for too long. Whilst LMG's have an open bolt that allows you to fire a much larger quantity of rounds before it over heats, but dirt tends to get in it.

That's what I always thought the difference was.

I don't know. I'm not an expert on firearms. I only knew the above stuff because I was curious as to what the differences were.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Light Machine Guns/Squad Assault Weapons are usually the WORST weapons in the shooters I've played, just because they are made for prolonged combat; not accurate combat.

And in short-range combat scenarios (which is what most modern shooters portray, by far), accuracy is King. 2-5 Bullets to the head or neck vs 13-20 to the torso. It's why all new games have the same exact fucking Assault Rifle with the tactical display and quick-scope effect.

Then again, it really depends on the game today. I recall the BAR-equivalent in Ballistic Weapons (mod for UT2004) being incredibly powerful if you could get entrenched. The same equivalent weapon in the original Counterstrike (the M60 knockoff) is an overpriced piece of shit unless your teammates know how to flush targets from cover.

 

[Alfid Zeiss]

Oh god, someone dies too much from a certain type of weapon and suddenly it is overpowered and needs to be removed. Why am I not surprised?

No see this is a problem I have in a lot of FPSs. Literally LMGs are always over powered in almost all FPSs.

The LMG, by deffinition I believe, is suppose to fire actual, literal death from its barrel.

You want over powered, talk to me after getting knifed in the 15 times in one match of COD. If anything needs to be fixed, its the fucking melee.

I'll back you up on that...
Even if I really do suck on FPS games

 

[s0m3th1ng]

original Counterstrike (the M60 knockoff) is an overpriced piece of shit unless your teammates know how to flush targets from cover.

I thought it was the M249 "S.A.W." ?

 

[Atmos Duality]

original Counterstrike (the M60 knockoff) is an overpriced piece of shit unless your teammates know how to flush targets from cover.

I thought it was the M249 "S.A.W." ?

I may be getting my Counterstrike (and clones) mixed up. (*checks old CS install*), Yeah, it was the SAW-knockoff in CS, but the M60 in Tac Ops. It was virtually the same bloody gun in gameplay, but based on two different weapons in real life.

 

[psivamp]

I think he's mainly talking about the M60 -- which, when I still played BC2, was a 2 or 3 shot kill and you could just put a few semi-auto shots under a marker and get a kill without ever seeing the enemy.

 

[s0m3th1ng]

original Counterstrike (the M60 knockoff) is an overpriced piece of shit unless your teammates know how to flush targets from cover.

I thought it was the M249 "S.A.W." ?

I may be getting my Counterstrike (and clones) mixed up. (*checks old CS install*), Yeah, it was the SAW-knockoff in CS, but the M60 in Tac Ops. It was virtually the same bloody gun in gameplay, but based on two different weapons in real life.

What the f is Tac Ops?

 

[EinTheCorgi]

i understand what you mean OP LMGs are pretty much ARs but with 100-200 rounds and worst of all you kill there whole damn team and in 5 seconds there all alive again because he revives them all.

 

[nipsen]

Yeah. LMGs in games suck. They're sniper-rifles with 100 bullets, basically. The scary part is that the least overpowered LMG in any game right now is actually the one in Bad Company 2. Mhm.

We had a heavy MG in MAG for a while that actually had the initial snap you get if you fire the damned thing without support (i.e., the open loading mechanism means the bolt slips forward, then instantly fire - you can't aim the ironsights effectively even if you only fire a couple of shots. And you certainly do not look through a scope while firing it from the shoulder -- even the wimpy m246/5.56mm doesn't work that way. What you can do is manually load one cartridge, and then lock the bolt. And then fire one shot. But to continue firing in bursts.. no way. Makes no sense. Whoever came up with this kind of thing took inspiration from Wolfenstein or something..).

Anyway, so this meant that the gun wasn't effective to aim with at long distances, but very good at laying down cover-fire and keeping targets suppressed. Specially when prone or deployed with a bipod. It was a really good and simple solution that achieved what it was supposed to almost perfectly.

But Zipper patched it out because some American guy complained or something.

 

[McNinja]

Not that I've played Bad Company, but who's this Lieutenant Marzipan Gorilla you're talking about?

I see what you did there.

But on topic, I've sniped with LMGs before, on other games. All you need to do is not be out in the open, and all they need to do is not fire like a maniac and actually have some patience.

The irony of it is that for all the quoting, no one has actually told me what an LMG is.

LMG= Light Machine Gun. Such as the M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon).

 

[Atmos Duality]

original Counterstrike (the M60 knockoff) is an overpriced piece of shit unless your teammates know how to flush targets from cover.

I thought it was the M249 "S.A.W." ?

I may be getting my Counterstrike (and clones) mixed up. (*checks old CS install*), Yeah, it was the SAW-knockoff in CS, but the M60 in Tac Ops. It was virtually the same bloody gun in gameplay, but based on two different weapons in real life.

What the f is Tac Ops?

One of many, MANY Counterstrike clones from the 2001-2003 era of shooters.
It started as a mod for Unreal Tournament, in a similar vein that Counterstrike started as a mod for Half-Life (which actually can be traced to a mod for Quake 2 known as "Action Quake 2").

 

[rathorn14]

Oh god, someone dies too much from a certain type of weapon and suddenly it is overpowered and needs to be removed. Why am I not surprised?

No see this is a problem I have in a lot of FPSs. Literally LMGs are always over powered in almost all FPSs.

play some Amra or Operation Flashpoint for a while.

LMG's are suppressive weapons first an foremost, so a degree of accuracy along with pure fire volume is what you will find in all FPS's unless you play casual ones like CS:S, in which case: M1 + w

but taking into Bad Company 2's mod system, adding a 4x scope can greatly increase the lethality of ANY weapon you put it on.

yes, including the M95, quadruple for the M95.

but if you are still wondering how they are hitting you from 100+ yards, its all about burst fire.

Three to five shots each pull to keep a good grouping, and always stay as low as you can to increase accuracy, though you cant really do that in BC2 since everyone forgot how to lay down in prone.


in all, remember the holy doctrine of the FPS:



Sniper -> [LMG -> Assault -> CQC -> LMG]

The only way you can use one of those over a certain range is if you're just good, they're not overpowered at all, some of them are better for different types of combat, yeah, but in the end, it's the player that matters.

Now, shotguns? Those are overpowered!

you...........

[HEADING=1]LIE[/HEADING]


I would kill for a FPS that had shotguns portrayed properly instead of "oh, they are only able to hit things 5' in-front of the player!"

I mean, seriously, I can hit a medium sized target with my non-choked 12 Ga. at roughly 40-55 meters with regular buckshot, I don't see how trained military personnel (granted, in a video game) cant do the same with high quality firearms!

Hallelujah!