Man killed by police after angry CoD gamer SWATs player for lost $1.50 wager match

Warhound

New member
Oct 24, 2017
65
0
0
Silvanus said:
Captain Marvelous said:
Maybe it is. The truth of the matter is the suspect has a lot of input in how the situation ends. It's best for everyone involved for suspects to comply with officers. When the suspect reaches for their waist or ignores an officers orders then that's their input and they're partly to blame for the outcome.
Can any of us realistically claim to know how we would react if we expected it to be an ordinary day, and in a minute's time, we're faced with loaded guns and yelled instructions? No.
Having had that happen (Walking down the street near a school with an AR-15 shaped airsoft rifle without orange tip. Gets some cop attention) I can tell you, its really fucking easy to follow instructions properly.

Shooting to kill is not an appropriate response in any way to an action as innocuous as touching one's waist. There cannot be said to be any reasonable expectation on the victim's part of what would happen, so no, they are not partly responsible. The killer is responsible.
And you fail completely and utterly here. The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone. A gun is a tool with a very pecific purpose. And winging a person is not it.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Warhound said:
Silvanus said:
Captain Marvelous said:
Maybe it is. The truth of the matter is the suspect has a lot of input in how the situation ends. It's best for everyone involved for suspects to comply with officers. When the suspect reaches for their waist or ignores an officers orders then that's their input and they're partly to blame for the outcome.
Can any of us realistically claim to know how we would react if we expected it to be an ordinary day, and in a minute's time, we're faced with loaded guns and yelled instructions? No.
Having had that happen (Walking down the street near a school with an AR-15 shaped airsoft rifle without orange tip. Gets some cop attention) I can tell you, its really fucking easy to follow instructions properly.

Shooting to kill is not an appropriate response in any way to an action as innocuous as touching one's waist. There cannot be said to be any reasonable expectation on the victim's part of what would happen, so no, they are not partly responsible. The killer is responsible.
And you fail completely and utterly here. The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone. A gun is a tool with a very pecific purpose. And winging a person is not it.
"Shoot only to kill" is a way of thinking that police would do well to get rid of. I think it might be a major source of the problem with gun nuts. Imagine if more cops shot to impede? Imagine if both innocent people had atleast a chance to live and guilty people had a chance to speak directly on why they did whatever they did. Too many shootings end with a dead perp and a mystery.
 

Warhound

New member
Oct 24, 2017
65
0
0
"Shoot only to kill" is a way of thinking that police would do well to get rid of. I think it might be a major source of the problem with gun nuts. Imagine if more cops shot to impede? Imagine if both innocent people had atleast a chance to live and guilty people had a chance to speak directly on why they did whatever they did. Too many shootings end with a dead perp and a mystery.[/quote]

This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm. There is no "shoot to impede" in ANY country. You know why? People with two braincells to rub together know that there is no way to do that that doesn't put the person shooting in more danger the person being shot till has a very good chance to die. (THis isn't the movies you know.) and puts by-standards in danger too. Go suggest that to a police officer (from any country) and they would laugh (or yell) at you.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
 

Warhound

New member
Oct 24, 2017
65
0
0
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
You were a cop? Considering how you act, I only feel more sure of my views.
 

Basement Cat

Keeping the Peace is Relaxing
Jul 26, 2012
2,379
0
0
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Sorry, Saelune, but he's right.

"If you pull it you'd better be prepared to use it." This is a maxim for any firearm.

Moreover real firearms aren't Hollywood accurate. Even trained marksmen can't "shoot a gun out of someone's hand". Moreover shooting anyone in the leg isn't easy, either. People are trained to target "Center of Mass" because that's the best way to actually hit what you're aiming for and avoid hitting innocent bystanders.

Especially with pistols. Rifles and shotguns can be used for hunting but pistols are difficult as heck to aim and they're killing tools. Pistols exist primarily to kill other people, sadly enough: They aren't much use for anything else.

Warhound is right.
 

Warhound

New member
Oct 24, 2017
65
0
0
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
You were a cop? Considering how you act, I only feel more sure of my views.
Well, you are sure of your views because you have a fantasy version of reality.

But no, I wasn't a cop, I just took firearm training classes as a teen and an adult so I had a proper respect for the tools I was inheriting from my parents. You should take one as well since you don't understand the basics of what you are talking about.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Basement Cat said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Sorry, Saelune, but he's right.

"If you pull it you'd better be prepared to use it." This is a maxim for any firearm.

Moreover real firearms aren't Hollywood accurate. Even trained marksmen can't "shoot a gun out of someone's hand". Moreover shooting anyone in the leg isn't easy, either. People are trained to target "Center of Mass" because that's the best way to actually hit what you're aiming for and avoid hitting innocent bystanders.

Especially with pistols. Rifles and shotguns can be used for hunting but pistols are difficult as heck to aim and they're killing tools. Pistols exist primarily to kill other people, sadly enough: They aren't much use for anything else.

Warhound is right.
Then my response is that you are also wrong.

Using it and using it explicitly to kill arent the same. Sure, you should probably be prepared for killing them, even f you dont intentionally mean to, but this killer mentality well, that is a clear problem.

But then maybe cops just shouldnt all have guns then? That the cop problem here is distinctly American is very telling.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
You were a cop? Considering how you act, I only feel more sure of my views.
Well, you are sure of your views because you have a fantasy version of reality.

But no, I wasn't a cop, I just took firearm training classes as a teen and an adult so I had a proper respect for the tools I was inheriting from my parents. You should take one as well since you don't understand the basics of what you are talking about.
I was too busy building a respect for innocent lives, not metal weapons of death.
 

Warhound

New member
Oct 24, 2017
65
0
0
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
You were a cop? Considering how you act, I only feel more sure of my views.
Well, you are sure of your views because you have a fantasy version of reality.

But no, I wasn't a cop, I just took firearm training classes as a teen and an adult so I had a proper respect for the tools I was inheriting from my parents. You should take one as well since you don't understand the basics of what you are talking about.
I was too busy building a respect for innocent lives, not metal weapons of death.
Funny I had time to do both, never too late for you to learn, but I suspect you have 0 interest in actually learning, you just want to reinforce your own strange world views, eh? After all you just got told you were wrong by several people and your responce is "NAH NAH NAH YOU ARE ALL WRONG."
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
You were a cop? Considering how you act, I only feel more sure of my views.
Well, you are sure of your views because you have a fantasy version of reality.

But no, I wasn't a cop, I just took firearm training classes as a teen and an adult so I had a proper respect for the tools I was inheriting from my parents. You should take one as well since you don't understand the basics of what you are talking about.
I was too busy building a respect for innocent lives, not metal weapons of death.
Funny I had time to do both, never too late for you to learn, but I suspect you have 0 interest in actually learning, you just want to reinforce your own strange world views, eh? After all you just got told you were wrong by several people and your responce is "NAH NAH NAH YOU ARE ALL WRONG."
There have been times where I have been on the side with most of the people agreeing against one person, and I do usually think "Everyone else thinks you're wrong so you probably are" but I dont say it cause...thats bullshit. Just because a majority of people agree on something, doesnt make it right, case in point most Civil Rights issues. And plus you are only going on right now. Silvanus, undeadsuitor, bastardofmelbourne and others tend to be on the same page as me on this topic. Just because they arent here right now defending me or disagreeing with you doesnt mean they suddenly change their mind.

And what of your responses? You are very rude and directly insulting.
 

Warhound

New member
Oct 24, 2017
65
0
0
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
You were a cop? Considering how you act, I only feel more sure of my views.
Well, you are sure of your views because you have a fantasy version of reality.

But no, I wasn't a cop, I just took firearm training classes as a teen and an adult so I had a proper respect for the tools I was inheriting from my parents. You should take one as well since you don't understand the basics of what you are talking about.
I was too busy building a respect for innocent lives, not metal weapons of death.
Funny I had time to do both, never too late for you to learn, but I suspect you have 0 interest in actually learning, you just want to reinforce your own strange world views, eh? After all you just got told you were wrong by several people and your responce is "NAH NAH NAH YOU ARE ALL WRONG."
There have been times where I have been on the side with most of the people agreeing against one person, and I do usually think "Everyone else thinks you're wrong so you probably are" but I dont say it cause...thats bullshit. Just because a majority of people agree on something, doesnt make it right, case in point most Civil Rights issues. And plus you are only going on right now. Silvanus, undeadsuitor, bastardofmelbourne and others tend to be on the same page as me on this topic. Just because they arent here right now defending me or disagreeing with you doesnt mean they suddenly change their mind.

And what of your responses? You are very rude and directly insulting.
I am sorry, but are you seriously saying that the fact that you, Silvanus, undeadsuitor, and bastardofmelbourne think its seriously OK for cops to go around trying to shoot people in the arms and legs is similar to the Civil Rights struggles?

Dear god. As for my responses, they are blunt, if you think the truth is rude and insulting thats on you.
 

Basement Cat

Keeping the Peace is Relaxing
Jul 26, 2012
2,379
0
0
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
You were a cop? Considering how you act, I only feel more sure of my views.
Well, you are sure of your views because you have a fantasy version of reality.

But no, I wasn't a cop, I just took firearm training classes as a teen and an adult so I had a proper respect for the tools I was inheriting from my parents. You should take one as well since you don't understand the basics of what you are talking about.
I was too busy building a respect for innocent lives, not metal weapons of death.
Funny I had time to do both, never too late for you to learn, but I suspect you have 0 interest in actually learning, you just want to reinforce your own strange world views, eh? After all you just got told you were wrong by several people and your responce is "NAH NAH NAH YOU ARE ALL WRONG."
There have been times where I have been on the side with most of the people agreeing against one person, and I do usually think "Everyone else thinks you're wrong so you probably are" but I dont say it cause...thats bullshit. Just because a majority of people agree on something, doesnt make it right, case in point most Civil Rights issues. And plus you are only going on right now. Silvanus, undeadsuitor, bastardofmelbourne and others tend to be on the same page as me on this topic. Just because they arent here right now defending me or disagreeing with you doesnt mean they suddenly change their mind.

And what of your responses? You are very rude and directly insulting.
No, he isn't.

In fact I find myself agreeing with him. You're unfamiliar with firearms--nothing wrong with that--but in addition to hating firearms in general you ooze contempt and disgust over those who wield them and/or are trained to handle them.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Basement Cat said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
You were a cop? Considering how you act, I only feel more sure of my views.
Well, you are sure of your views because you have a fantasy version of reality.

But no, I wasn't a cop, I just took firearm training classes as a teen and an adult so I had a proper respect for the tools I was inheriting from my parents. You should take one as well since you don't understand the basics of what you are talking about.
I was too busy building a respect for innocent lives, not metal weapons of death.
Funny I had time to do both, never too late for you to learn, but I suspect you have 0 interest in actually learning, you just want to reinforce your own strange world views, eh? After all you just got told you were wrong by several people and your responce is "NAH NAH NAH YOU ARE ALL WRONG."
There have been times where I have been on the side with most of the people agreeing against one person, and I do usually think "Everyone else thinks you're wrong so you probably are" but I dont say it cause...thats bullshit. Just because a majority of people agree on something, doesnt make it right, case in point most Civil Rights issues. And plus you are only going on right now. Silvanus, undeadsuitor, bastardofmelbourne and others tend to be on the same page as me on this topic. Just because they arent here right now defending me or disagreeing with you doesnt mean they suddenly change their mind.

And what of your responses? You are very rude and directly insulting.
No, he isn't.

In fact I find myself agreeing with him. You're unfamiliar with firearms--nothing wrong with that--but in addition to hating firearms in general you ooze contempt and disgust over those who wield them and/or are trained to handle them.
It worries me that you are condoning his posts then, but fine.

I hate the idolization of deadly weapons by so many here. I ooze contempt and disgust over murderers who get away with it because of unreasonable worship of organizations that repeatedly fail to uphold the law they are supposed to enforce and defend, as well as for the people who outright defend them on flimsy and unfair reasoning. Why is it ok for cops, people with guns and supposed training, to kill out of fear and cowardice, but its not ok for an innocent person to fumble in fear when yelled at by said gun toting monsters? I believe that is the definition of a double standard.

I think gun nuts are far too biased in their idol worship that they lack objective thinking and outright dismiss anyone who doesnt fall in line with their deadly thinking.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
I did not start off this way. Hell, I used to think black people were exaggerating and overreacting, but time and time, murder after murder, excuse after excuse, and unpunished killer after unpunished killer, here I am.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
Saelune said:
Warhound said:
The only time you shoot is shooting to kill. If you think there are other options you don't draw the gun, or put it away. You never shoot to wound, you never try to leg someone.
This is the worst line of thinking ever. Please, never go near a firearm.
Except this comes from ex-military and police officers who have served over 20 years. Where as your line of thinking comes from some imagination land. Go talk to an armed police officer from the UK, they will tell you the exact same thing.
You were a cop? Considering how you act, I only feel more sure of my views.
Well, you are sure of your views because you have a fantasy version of reality.

But no, I wasn't a cop, I just took firearm training classes as a teen and an adult so I had a proper respect for the tools I was inheriting from my parents. You should take one as well since you don't understand the basics of what you are talking about.
I was too busy building a respect for innocent lives, not metal weapons of death.
Funny I had time to do both, never too late for you to learn, but I suspect you have 0 interest in actually learning, you just want to reinforce your own strange world views, eh? After all you just got told you were wrong by several people and your responce is "NAH NAH NAH YOU ARE ALL WRONG."
There have been times where I have been on the side with most of the people agreeing against one person, and I do usually think "Everyone else thinks you're wrong so you probably are" but I dont say it cause...thats bullshit. Just because a majority of people agree on something, doesnt make it right, case in point most Civil Rights issues. And plus you are only going on right now. Silvanus, undeadsuitor, bastardofmelbourne and others tend to be on the same page as me on this topic. Just because they arent here right now defending me or disagreeing with you doesnt mean they suddenly change their mind.

And what of your responses? You are very rude and directly insulting.
I am sorry, but are you seriously saying that the fact that you, Silvanus, undeadsuitor, and bastardofmelbourne think its seriously OK for cops to go around trying to shoot people in the arms and legs is similar to the Civil Rights struggles?

Dear god. As for my responses, they are blunt, if you think the truth is rude and insulting thats on you.
You are rude and insulting. Your bias is not truth.
 

Basement Cat

Keeping the Peace is Relaxing
Jul 26, 2012
2,379
0
0
Saelune said:
It worries me that you are condoning his posts then, but fine.

I hate the idolization of deadly weapons by so many here. I ooze contempt and disgust over murderers who get away with it because of unreasonable worship of organizations that repeatedly fail to uphold the law they are supposed to enforce and defend, as well as for the people who outright defend them on flimsy and unfair reasoning. Why is it ok for cops, people with guns and supposed training, to kill out of fear and cowardice, but its not ok for an innocent person to fumble in fear when yelled at by said gun toting monsters? I believe that is the definition of a double standard.

I think gun nuts are far too biased in their idol worship that they lack objective thinking and outright dismiss anyone who doesnt fall in line with their deadly thinking.
You're painting whole populations of the U.S. with the same brush, Saelune.

BTW: My late maternal grandmother (who lived alone for decades) owned a .22 revolver for home protection. Not exactly a gun nut, there.
 

Leg End

Romans 12:18
Oct 24, 2010
2,948
58
53
Country
United States
Saelune said:
Using it and using it explicitly to kill arent the same. Sure, you should probably be prepared for killing them, even f you dont intentionally mean to, but this killer mentality well, that is a clear problem.
So, we're just going to magically use inherently lethal methods of force on people and try and make them not harmless. We're just going to lower the barrier for entry and make the use of lethal force more commonplace because you can totally shoot someone in a magic(nonexistent) place and they'll have no chance of dying. You are entirely ignoring reality here.
But then maybe cops just shouldnt all have guns then? That the cop problem here is distinctly American is very telling.
So they're just going to walk into an armed robbery with pepper spray?
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Basement Cat said:
Saelune said:
It worries me that you are condoning his posts then, but fine.

I hate the idolization of deadly weapons by so many here. I ooze contempt and disgust over murderers who get away with it because of unreasonable worship of organizations that repeatedly fail to uphold the law they are supposed to enforce and defend, as well as for the people who outright defend them on flimsy and unfair reasoning. Why is it ok for cops, people with guns and supposed training, to kill out of fear and cowardice, but its not ok for an innocent person to fumble in fear when yelled at by said gun toting monsters? I believe that is the definition of a double standard.

I think gun nuts are far too biased in their idol worship that they lack objective thinking and outright dismiss anyone who doesnt fall in line with their deadly thinking.
You're painting whole populations of the U.S. with the same brush, Saelune.

BTW: My late maternal grandmother (who lived alone for decades) owned a .22 revolver for home protection. Not exactly a gun nut, there.
Is wanting accountability for killer cops really such a vile thing?

That depends. Does she think owning a gun makes her free to kill whoever she wants? Does she think that anyone who doesnt own a gun cant have a worthwhile opinion on guns? Does she think cops are incapable of wrong doing? Did she vote Trump just cause she wanted to keep her gun (possibly while also liking Trump taking away peoples immigrant relatives cause guns > people)? Does she think everyone and anyone should have a gun, background checks be damned?