Man Sues BBC Claiming Copyright On Doctor Who's Dalek Leader

Grimh

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Feb 11, 2009
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Like other's have said, the paper looks too well preseved, and I think since it's based on Dalek design he kind of looses copyright claim. Probably wrong though.
 

Googooguru

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Jan 27, 2010
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Ghengis John said:
Cheesebob said:
Wha...What stops me from drawing a dalek and doing the same thing?
Carbon dating?
the fact is, paper isn't carbon dated, because the amount of carbon-12 starts decaying after the subject dies(in this case :the tree) carbon dating would only tell you at what point the tree was chopped down and some other parimeters based on the carbon 14 to 12 ratio.this works with fossils and other "living things that died" but other methods are used to date papers ie: Linguistics,writing styles, paper materials,chemical treatments, Ink types etc.... so yeah you may have a 40 year old piece of paper in your hands but unless the Ink is unique to that period its arguable on about 40 different fronts as to its authenticity .. Sadly for Mr. Steven Clarke
 

punipunipyo

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Jan 20, 2011
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have anyone thought that it MIGHT very well be a case of "old guy lost/mixed up memory?" oh wait... he filed 3 years after the contest... but again... he COULD have moxed it up with something else...
 

Birthe

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Apr 26, 2010
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But actually various kitchen suüüly companies could sue the BBC for having based the Dalek idea on them :D I mean look at them...
 

Necromancer1991

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Apr 9, 2010
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Wow really, some guy doodles a bad sketch of Davros onto a piece of paper crumples it up and says that they stole his idea from 40 years ago.....wow, just wow.

Sorry but the sketch is just TOO similar for my taste
 

Tom Goldman

Crying on the inside.
Aug 17, 2009
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Lets look at both sides of the coin!

If the drawing is real and the claim is valid then he deserves his recognition.
however...
If the drawing is a fake; Then he deserves all the taunts and boos that he deserves.

This is way Marvel asks you to sign a waiver to all material you submit.
 

Tom Goldman

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Aug 17, 2009
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SirBryghtside said:
It might be true, but I don't think he's going to win. Really not enough evidence, he could have easily knocked that up last week.
Depends. If he has proof of submitting it, or the contest has proof, it looks like it might be an upset.
KeyMaster45 said:
I'm calling bullshit, that drawing shows no visible signs of age in the picture provided. If he really did draw that back in the 70's and then proceeded to actually lose it shouldn't look like it was drawn yesterday.

Further if he submitted it to the contest why does he still have a copy of his submission? It's not like they would have sent it back. While the guy has a nice sob story I'd be disinclined to believe what he says is true.
Now, I know people tend to forget stuff like this, but Fax Machines and copy machines DID exist in the 90s.
Baron Von Evil Satan said:
I'm not that well read on this type of law, but I'm fairly certain that using the BBC's (what I can only assume are) copyrighted designs to base your character off of gives them free use to it. At least, that's what I'd think.
Using copyrighted designs to make your characters? Where have I heard that before?

 

Tom Goldman

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Aug 17, 2009
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MurderousToaster said:
Sorry dude, but if I were a teenager in the seventies and I found out that my character was in Doctor Who, I wouldn't sue. I'd be fucking overjoyed.
And when you're 50 and want money, you'd sue.
 

Tom Goldman

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Aug 17, 2009
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TimeLord said:
I was all ready to call bullshits when I read the title.
But if he can prove that the idea was his from the start, someone at the BBC is doomed!
DOOMED I SAY!

Especially if they decide to bring back Davros somehow.
Unless another person fucks with time, I don't see it happening. Then again, he escaped the freaking Time War, so who knows?
Susan Arendt said:
I don't buy it. The picture is just too perfect. How often does concept art make it into production completely unscathed?
Rarely, but it does occasionally. But, one little change can be all is needed to avoid a lawsuit. Kinda like this video:


There's even a trope for it: The Jimmy Hart Version [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheJimmyHartVersion]
 

Tom Goldman

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Aug 17, 2009
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green_dude said:
Wouldn't he have broken copyright in the first place by using the bottom half of a Dalek?
Nope:


loremazd said:
I'm a bit confused here, how can you copywright drawing of a man riding inside something that's already copywritten?
Look at the video I've been posting. Samsung used Mark VI MJOLNIR in late 2010 for their ads. They changed a little tiny amount and MS hasn't sued.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Starke said:
And the odds that this contest didn't have the standard forfeiture of intellectual property clause is... what?

You know, that bit that says "all submissions become the property of the " clause that appears in the formal rules for almost all contests of this sort?
That was my first thought.

He may have created it, but odds are, he gave up any claim to compensation by participating.
 

EvilPicnic

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Sep 9, 2009
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Really? As a massive DW geek, I don't buy it.

Terry Nation wrote Genesis of the Daleks, and invented Davros for that story to be an allegory for Mengele and general evil Nazi-science-ness. The character's appearance and mannerisms fit perfectly into the plot and tone of the story. He's the perfect example of a villain serving the plot, and not the other way around (at least, in that first story). And Terry Nation had nothing to do with that magazine competition.

And also the idea that the costume is an EXACT copy of the sketch; if the drawing and the costume were slightly similar, I could buy it. But the quality of the BBC special effects department at the time was sketchy at best. The idea that a random sketch by a kid THAT DIDN'T EVEN WIN THE COMPETITION could be PERFECTLY recreated seems a little too much. Why would they even try anyway?

Maybe I'm just a naive fanboy, but I think it's all a publicity-seeking hoax.
 

Teh Jammah

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Nov 13, 2010
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Davros' last story was in 2008...

... nearly 3 years after he decides to sue because he 'wants recognition'

... yeah. right. More like 3 years later he finds one of his kids/niece/nephews fan sketches and decides to pass it off as his own.

Plus, as has been mentioned, Terry Nation's estate owns the trademarks for Davros and the Daleks, so he's targeting the wrong people anyhow. Whole thing reeks of BS to me.
 

KeyMaster45

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Jun 16, 2008
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HG131 said:
KeyMaster45 said:
I'm calling bullshit, that drawing shows no visible signs of age in the picture provided. If he really did draw that back in the 70's and then proceeded to actually lose it shouldn't look like it was drawn yesterday.

Further if he submitted it to the contest why does he still have a copy of his submission? It's not like they would have sent it back. While the guy has a nice sob story I'd be disinclined to believe what he says is true.
Now, I know people tend to forget stuff like this, but Fax Machines and copy machines DID exist in the 90s.
Except he didn't submit the drawing for the contest in the 90's he submitted it as a teenager in the 70's a time when I'm pretty sure the xerox machine would not be available to him outside of a corporate environment. He only "found it again" in the 90's which implies he found the original, which had he sent it off to the contest is highly unlikely they'd have sent it back to him.
 

Tom Goldman

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Aug 17, 2009
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KeyMaster45 said:
HG131 said:
KeyMaster45 said:
I'm calling bullshit, that drawing shows no visible signs of age in the picture provided. If he really did draw that back in the 70's and then proceeded to actually lose it shouldn't look like it was drawn yesterday.

Further if he submitted it to the contest why does he still have a copy of his submission? It's not like they would have sent it back. While the guy has a nice sob story I'd be disinclined to believe what he says is true.
Now, I know people tend to forget stuff like this, but Fax Machines and copy machines DID exist in the 90s.
Except he didn't submit the drawing for the contest in the 90's he submitted it as a teenager in the 70's a time when I'm pretty sure the xerox machine would not be available to him outside of a corporate environment. He only "found it again" in the 90's which implies he found the original, which had he sent it off to the contest is highly unlikely they'd have sent it back to him.
Sorry, I meant to say 70s. However, that still doesn't invalidate my statement. Where did his parents work? Because they could have copied/faxed it for him.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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There are all kinds of ways of authenticating documents out there. I'm hardly an expert in the practice, but it's been a factor in proving the authenticity of autographed memorobilia, contracts, and everything else. Should a lawyer be willing to take the case, being able to prove the validity of the sketch shouldn't be an issue.

As far as the amount of time it took, well age probably has something to do with it. Back in 1975 the show, which was done on a shoestring, probably didn't seem like it was going to be that big a deal, and it's survival seemed like something of a miracle. In 1990 it seemed to be gone, and nowadays he's getting old, seeing that this has been revived, and probably thinking "you know, I did this one thing that was cool, and I'd like some acknowlegement for it" especially if he's poor and his life is going nowhere as he's getting older. I really can't fault him if he's legitimate, I don't think one should be questioning why he held back this long if it's indeed the real deal. Doctor Who has had too many ups and downs for me to think there was any kind of long term money grabbing plan involved here.

Even if they don't wind up paying the guy 36 years worth of revenues, he does deserve acknowlegement. What's more, I'd have to wonder that with all the writers who is taking credit for that character? With all those fan books and such over the years I'd be surprised if there isn't someone (besides this guy) being clearly credited for coming up with the character, and probably some old "concept sketches" somewhere from the original creators from when they were "planning it out". All of that could definatly put a nasty cloud over Doctor Who if it turns out they robbed a 13 year old.

This was long enough ago, where I don't think they took ownership of the property directly as part of the submission rules, I don't think things like that were in common usage then. I certainly don't remember having to do it for contests in the 1980s (but in the 1990s it was very much the case, not that I've been seriously involved in many creative contests). Even if they did, I don't believe they can actually say "we created this" just claim general company ownership of it, uncredited.

As far as ridiculous "American Lawsuits" this is the kind of case that shows they really aren't all that ridiculous, especially if this is legitimate. The biggest arguement that could be made for "not stooping to that level" is if this turns out to be real, the BBC just came to a generous arrangement with the guy for his contribution, and apologized for any mistakes or wrongdoing.

See, the very fact that even if this guy is 100% legitimate that the BBC is liable to try and avoid giving him anything, or dealing with him fairly, is the problem. If he created Davros, he deserves credit.

Besides, I'd find it amusing to see what creation actually won that contest and if it ever appeared on TV. Assuming any records of it exist.