Man "too fat" to be allowed to live in New Zealand

[SpAc3man]

Kiwi here. We have strict immigration rules and they must be adhered to. This guy was examined by doctors and was determined to be in bad health.

Here are our MINIMUM standards under the skilled migrant category for immigration into New Zealand:

Spoiler

You can include your partner and dependent children in your application, but you all have to meet these standards.

Health: You must be healthy. If you are invited to apply for residence, you and your family will have to be assessed by an approved doctor.
Character: You and your family must be of good character. We don?t allow some people who have committed serious crimes to come to New Zealand.
English language: You and your family will need to meet a certain level of ability in spoken and written English.
Occupational registration: If you need occupational registration and do not have it, you will not be able to work in your chosen occupation under the Skilled Migrant Category.

As you can see, health is the first on the list. If this guy had some sort of heart disease he would be denied, if he had cancer he would be denied, he has a significant risk of developing heart disease and diabetes. He is therefore denied a renewal on his work visa. I am most shocked that he managed to have his visa approved and renewed for six years while clearly not meeting the criteria. Perhaps his age was also a factor.

 

[Compatriot Block]

Well, I agree with people saying that health is a viable reason to deny him permanent residency.

I am also glad that this example is from New Zealand. Something tells me that if it was the US in question, people in here wouldn't be so supportive of the policy.

 

[Gottesstrafe]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

New York will be the first city to do this, guaranteed. California will probably follow so they don't look like they're "behind".
I'm sure there will be a riot of certain ethnicities who eat large meals and live in the NYC area if this ever happens.

Seeing how their solution to the homeless and vagrant population is to give them one-way bus tickets to Florida for the winter, I wouldn't be surprised. It's much cheaper than paying the associative costs of housing and healthcare, at least.

 

[Rednog]

Something tells me that if it was the US in question, people in here wouldn't be so supportive of the policy.

If this happened in America this thread would already be 20 pages long with every other post having " 'Murica " in it. But considering that this is a thread about a non American country and about fat people, the fat person pretty much has no chance of getting any sympathy from the Escapist userbase.

 

[sleeky01]

Well, I agree with people saying that health is a viable reason to deny him permanent residency.

I am also glad that this example is from New Zealand. Something tells me that if it was the US in question, people in here wouldn't be so supportive of the policy.

I'm not so sure. The idea that he would have been an immigrant and a perceived burden on the US health system (assuming he wasn't privately insured. Why write about him otherwise?) would have sided against him.

 

[Caiphus]

Slightly conflicted about this. It seems like our immigration services fucked up on this one.

On one hand, health problems probably should be a reason to deny someone a work visa. Furthermore, I would understand if immigration services wanted to tighten up during a recession. That would be commonplace, I think.

On the other, it seems like the line is drawn pretty arbitrarily, considering he's lost a non-trivial amount of weight. The article doesn't tell us about any health complications he's had in recent years though, which would give him less sympathy. But it does seem to say that he hasn't been given any warnings about it (although I don't know how often warnings are given in lieu of just kicking people out).

Edit: This article seems to have a picture of the man, rather than a stock photo of "omg fat person":

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8970736/Too-fat-to-live-here

He doesn't look extraordinarily unhealthy.

 

[Morsomk_v1legacy]

I read the title and though he was killed for being too fat . Then i read he was Only 286 pounds . So dissapointed on so many levels .

I know right, when I saw the title something along the lines of "I FUCKING KNEW IT! New Zealand IS full of cannibals!" immediately popped into my head.

OT This feels more like an excuse then actual reason considering he had problems renewing his Visa. A really bad one at that might I add.

Edit: This article seems to have a picture of the man, rather than a stock photo of "omg fat person":

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8970736/Too-fat-to-live-here

He doesn't look extraordinarily unhealthy.

That's the guy? In my opinion, that is not the look of someone that has health problems, it is more of the look of someone who likes to eat, which is something I am assured that no one in this thread hates to do.

 

[Guybythestreet]

Jumping into the secondary public healthcare debate going on here: I was working in a hospital in a top hospital in Shanghai for a summer and they do a great job with what they've got to supply public healthcare, problem is it still sucks. The measures put in place to supply public healthcare to a huge number of people at some plausibly maintainable cost has led to a horrible assortment of problems. Poorer care is given to each patient from the first moment they are diagnosed up and through their discharge (in the event they need surgery). Not only that but many of the drugs that either expensive or for less common problems are almost never covered and the family can't afford to pay for them either. Doctors and surgeons are paid low wages and China (like many other countries in the world) gets most medical drugs for vastly cheaper prices than the U.S. Patients can even stay hospitalized for lengthy periods of times (With a night only costing ~$50, FAR better than the nightmarish costs of hospitalization in the U.S.). Of course drugs are used more sparingly and when they are it tends to be whatever is cheapest and not necessarily whatever would be the safest bet.

Of course it isn't all bad otherwise they wouldn't use it. It's true that it gets more small problems treated (i.e. more broken bones set, more minor infections cured) but it fails in a big way when tackling any kind of expensive problem. Many surgeons at the hospital were telling me about how the hospital ends up paying for a portion of the patients surgery or prescription costs anyways because even when the healthcare covers even 80% of the cost the patients and their family can rarely afford the remainder. =/ Still seems like it wouldn't fix the complaints people have about healthcare in the U.S.

TL;DR
Public healthcare sucks but the current healthcare system in America sucks too.

 

[lacktheknack]

Uh... I'm 290 pounds, and I'm only barely obese...

No going to New Zealand for me, then? Ouch.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

I don't quite understand why they didn't become a permanent resident?
Like, if you intend to stay there (and six years indicates you are), then what reasons are they to keep renewing a visa, instead of just taking the step to being a proper citizen of the country you like?


I also assume they were either an oversight, or they just crossed an age threshold which bumped up their 'risk' factor and thus were denied renewal.

Does suck though.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

Um, that's a common policy in immigration.
If people move to your country, you want them to contribute to the country, not be a burden.

Yes, it is a common policy in immigration, funny how it didn't come up WHEN HE WAS IMMIGRATING, at which time he actually weighed more. At the point that he got kicked out of the country he was already a permanent resident, he just hadn't gotten citizenship yet.

And yes, in New Zealand people who are permanent residents are legally given the same access to healthcare as citizens.

It's not like he was planning on immigrating to the country and he was denied access. He has been living in New Zealand for 6 years, he had his permanent home there, his work, his family, his friends, his entire life. If he gets kicked out of the country where exactly is he expected to go?

If he was already a permanant resident then he wouldn't be getting deported for not having his visa renewed, permanant residents aren't on Work Visas.

 

[Yan007]

Sorry guys, but unless you are over 6ft and/or extremely muscular, then if you are over 200 lbs most people will find you disgusting to various degrees. For me, if I meet a girl she has to look between 15-18% bf at the highest to even consider her as a potential girlfriend, lower if she claims to be training too.

I know how much it sucks to be fat because I used to be that way: 5'8, 260lbs. I did the right thing and hired a trainer to tell me how to eat and train and went down to 140lbs within a year. Now I'm at 170lbs but thankfully that's not fat weight: I've been lifting weights ever since and simply got stronger and bigger in the best way possible. Now I'm bodybuilding.

Stop making excuses for this man and yourselves. When more than 20% of your weight comes from fat you've got a bigger problem than "genetics." I swear, reading some of the comments here feels like playing DmC all over again and seeing those ads for "Virility" drinks that make people think they're getting better by drinking them while the reality is they become fatter, dumber and slower.

For those wondering: Yes, the BMI index is bullshit. Bodyfat ratio is a much better indication. It is not an indication of health though, but over 20% you're lazy and under 8% you're either a bodybuilder or got an eating disorder.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

From the article:
"It is important that all migrants have an acceptable standard of health to minimise costs and demands on New Zealand's health services"

Sorry, but this is the dark side of universal healthcare.

When the Government foots the bill (well, in reality the taxpayers do), it opens up the floodgates for them to bring in additional regulations and rules aimed at people's personal habits, because now your personal habits actually do cost everyone something. Logically speaking, they can then regulate everything from cigarettes to fast food to alcohol to soda to even your weight under the basic premise of "well this is no longer your personal choice because everyone has to bear the burden of your unhealthy habits".

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I'm a bit weirded out that 286 pounds was where they crossed the line considering how western countries (event those with Universal Healthcare like Canada) often have people weighing far more.

Keep in mind though:

-This guy was denied due to the health costs of being obese, not because of "fat discrimination" or some bullshit like that.
-It's very likely he may have had other health problems or misc reasons that could have contributed to this.
-He wasn't technically permanently living there. He only had a work VISA.

Since this is likely going to become a "Blarg see this is why universal healthcare is bad THANKS OBAMA" debate because we need to bring everything back to binary American politics, keep in mind the US has Immigration Health checks and requirements too ([a]http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_3745.html[/a]). Sure it basically comes down to vaccination requirements and possible denial for more serious diseases, the same principle of "the Government is denying us based on our health" is still there.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Actually, I'm just a little unclear if they intend to work there and live there full time... why not try to immigrate? Maybe they wouldn't have been accepted, by why try year after year to apply for a visa if you're obviously trying to build a life there?

Unless he's like 5'5" or less, 286 isn't that fat. I mean yeah it's still pretty obese, probably even classified as morbidly obese, but there are people in the US and the UK who are over 300 and even 500 pounds. So yeah he's pretty fat, but there are much fatter people. And I find it hard to believe there's nobody in New Zealand over 300 pounds.

New Zealand are very strict on their immigration policies.

Just for clarification here, they're not renewing his visa due to his health, not his weight, as OP seems intent on spinning it. There is a difference. Weight is fairly arbitrary (up to a point), health on the other hand is likely to factor substantially in the cost of that individual to the state.

I would argue you're trying to spin it in the opposite direction, it is quite obvious about his weight. They or you can say it's about general health but it's obvious, especially after listing his weight, that that is what it is actually about.

Why is it obvious?

Seems far more likely to me that a government would deny a visa because they want to avoid massive health costs than because they don't like fat people. And that's the statement they've made, so... we have reason and evidence on the one hand, and... a baseless assumption the New Zealand government don't like fat people on the other.

because they said so

An immigration spokesman said Mr Buitenhuis's application had been rejected because his obesity put him at "significant risk" of complications including diabetes, hypertension and heart disease.

Second to last paragraph of the link.

Now, I don't think it's that they don't like fat people, I think they just don't like fat people who try to apply for visas there.

 

[Do4600]

Unless he's like 5'5" or less, 286 isn't that fat. I mean yeah it's still pretty obese, probably even classified as morbidly obese, but there are people in the US and the UK who are over 300 and even 500 pounds. So yeah he's pretty fat, but there are much fatter people. And I find it hard to believe there's nobody in New Zealand over 300 pounds.

New Zealand are very strict on their immigration policies.

Just for clarification here, they're not renewing his visa due to his health, not his weight, as OP seems intent on spinning it. There is a difference. Weight is fairly arbitrary (up to a point), health on the other hand is likely to factor substantially in the cost of that individual to the state.

Weight=Health in 90% of cases. Being overweight multiplies your risk of major diseases; major diseases multiply your risk of minor diseases and getting more major diseases. For instance, being overweight increases your risk of developing diabetes, having diabetes increases your risk of heart and kidney failure, all of these things cost a lot. A person who gets all three is looking at probably 2-3 million US dollars of health care, if you have 50 people in your country who develop all three you are suddenly facing a medical bill of 150 million US dollars, that's about 1/1050th of New Zealand's GDP.

 

[Do4600]

From the article:
"It is important that all migrants have an acceptable standard of health to minimise costs and demands on New Zealand's health services"

Sorry, but this is the dark side of universal healthcare.

When the Government foots the bill (well, in reality the taxpayers do), it opens up the floodgates for them to bring in additional regulations and rules aimed at people's personal habits, because now your personal habits actually do cost everyone something. Logically speaking, they can then regulate everything from cigarettes to fast food to alcohol to soda to even your weight under the basic premise of "well this is no longer your personal choice because everyone has to bear the burden of your unhealthy habits".

This may be so, but there is already a dark side to these freedoms we have as well. Have you ever seen a six pack a day smoker? A true alcoholic? A morbidly obese person? It's like seeing the physical embodiment of misery, consummate addiction is the worst face humanity has besides cruelty.

We're not talking about people who take a smoke break every two hours, or somebody who gets two big macs, a large fries and large soda on the way home from work twice a week, or even people who get drunk every weekend and have three beers every other day.

We're talking about people who wake up and light a cigarette and who are able to pass that one light from cigarette to cigarette until they go to sleep, people who sit down for lunch and eat two whole canned turkeys and wash it down with an entire panned lasagna and people who have technically never been sober for more than a day days since 1987. These people should have to pay extra for their health care.

When a quarter of the people I see on a day to day basis are so fat that 153 years ago they could have been paid handsomely to sit in a circus tent and have on-lookers gawp at them for a penny a head, it might be time to do something about it.

 

[RicoADF]

From the article:
"It is important that all migrants have an acceptable standard of health to minimise costs and demands on New Zealand's health services"

Sorry, but this is the dark side of universal healthcare.

When the Government foots the bill (well, in reality the taxpayers do), it opens up the floodgates for them to bring in additional regulations and rules aimed at people's personal habits, because now your personal habits actually do cost everyone something. Logically speaking, they can then regulate everything from cigarettes to fast food to alcohol to soda to even your weight under the basic premise of "well this is no longer your personal choice because everyone has to bear the burden of your unhealthy habits".

This isn't a citizen, it's someone on a work visa. They normally have strict requirements that the government require them to follow, even in the backwards country of America where they don't care unless you have money they can still kick you out if you don't fit health requirements:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_3745.html

 

[michael87cn]

Unless he's like 5'5" or less, 286 isn't that fat. I mean yeah it's still pretty obese, probably even classified as morbidly obese, but there are people in the US and the UK who are over 300 and even 500 pounds. So yeah he's pretty fat, but there are much fatter people. And I find it hard to believe there's nobody in New Zealand over 300 pounds.

New Zealand are very strict on their immigration policies.

Just for clarification here, they're not renewing his visa due to his health, not his weight, as OP seems intent on spinning it. There is a difference. Weight is fairly arbitrary (up to a point), health on the other hand is likely to factor substantially in the cost of that individual to the state.

I would argue you're trying to spin it in the opposite direction, it is quite obvious about his weight. They or you can say it's about general health but it's obvious, especially after listing his weight, that that is what it is actually about.

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

I've been around 250-290 (fluctuating) for around 8 years or so now, and I've never had to take any kind of medicine or cost my state any amount of money. In fact, the state I live in loves to take around $100 a month from me...

The assumption that being slightly overweight makes you useless and dependent on aid is silly. Clinically 250+ may be 'morbidly obese' but that's just an opinion by some doctor. Doctors aren't infallible, and my healthiness despite my weight (and shortness) is proof of that.

A little fat is normal. In fact, being 'perfect' is abnormal, but doctors call it healthy. Everything is backwards.

Besides, most people only maintain a slim appearance by under-eating. Most human beings gain weight in modern societies due to extreme lacks of exercise. And yet, they are just as un-healthy as 'fat' people, because they are sedentary just the same.