Marines Desecrate Insurgent corpse, urinate on it
- Thread starter slopeslider
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No, the keyword "kill" doesn't make what they did all better. As in, you know, they acted in an utterly disgusting and despicable manner not befitting a soldier in a western "civilised" country, let alone a civilian.internetzealot1 said:
They should be tossed out of the armed forces with dishonourable discharges for bringing disrepute on their unit & core, and left to face charges in an Iraqi court.
Also, if you think killing someone is the worst possible thing you can do to them, then I envy you your naivety.
What they did hardly matters. While pointless, urinating on a corpse doesn't hurt anybody. Oh, And please don't pretend that wars are "civilised"; If this is the worst these men do, then then they are acting comparatively tame.Jaythulhu said:
What could possibly be worse than ending someone's existence?
Are you intentionally taking my words out of context, or are you just misunderstanding?internetzealot1 said:
Yes, their behaviour in a war DOES matter. If defiling the corpse of someone you've killed is ok, then what else is ok? Can you steal someone else's stuff? Can you rape their body? Can you wear their skin as a coat? Besides the fact that we have international laws we must obey during any conflict, how do you think this reflects on the american army, and america in general?
How much more damage do you think this has done in the minds of the iraqis? How much more danger are the australians, brits, danes and everyone else who's involved in from retaliation attacks because of the further stupidity of some americans? In case you hadn't noticed, the islamic faith has very strict rules about the proper and honourable treatment of a deceased person, the people fighting america are fundamentalist zealots who've taken the faith to a bizarre extreme, and for an american to piss on a corpse would be as offensive to them as me walking up and pissing on a statue of jesus would be to a christian.
As for this "war isn't civilised" cop-out nonsense, war may not be civilised, but we are, and being in a war does not give soldiers from our way of life permission to suddenly start behaving like a pack of degenerate, filthy mongrels who've never been part of a society. Australians know better, the Brits know better, the Kiwis know better, in fact, everyone involved who's not american knows better than do that kind of disgusting, moronic shit, because all it does is further inflame your opponents, drive the likelihood of peace further and further away, and helps guarantee that there's going to be extremists blowing themselves up for the cause for decades to come.
On the flip side, I'm 85% positive that if this had been a story about taliban fighters pissing on american corpses, you'd be jumping up and down screaming for the country to be nuked.
Also, if you think killing someone is the worst possible thing you can do to them, then I envy you your naivety.
Go ask someone in a medical hospital who's had their arms, legs, face & guts blown away by an IED, who has to spend the rest of their life hooked to machines that breathe for them, keep their blood moving, act on behalf of their kidneys liver and stomach, who can't speak & may or may not be able to hear.
Then you come back and ask me what's worse than death.
'Don't read the thread, you already know about this'
'What are you doing, someone is gonna insult the military and you'll be pissed off'
'Stop now, go back, you are ten posts in, this is good eno-'
"F****** C****!"
*I do not speak for the DoN, DoD, etc, I am not a representative of the US Government, I am just me, the following post refelects my views and ideas only.*
So, when this first broke, my initial reaction was to bang my head on my desk. My boss asked me what was up, and I pointed. He sighed and muttered something about jarheads and stupidity. The general reaction to this around me was "I hope these idiots go to courts-martial, they've managed to insult all four branches with their actions, shit like this is why the military was so badly treated after Vietnam."
What these guys did is against all the values we hold dear. Its against the absolutely mind-numbing amount of training we perform on a regular basis on the Code of Conduct, Geneva Conventions, its against our RoE, its just wrong. We all know it. We hate it when shit like this happens, because the actions of these few reflects on all of us. Most importantly, the news stories will run about their actions, but ignore the consequences they face. They ARE going to CM. They WILL be punished. Their actions are not tolerated, not because it was covered by the media, but because it happened at all. And the rest of us will go through yet another round of CoC/GC/RoE training.
'What are you doing, someone is gonna insult the military and you'll be pissed off'
'Stop now, go back, you are ten posts in, this is good eno-'
"F****** C****!"
*I do not speak for the DoN, DoD, etc, I am not a representative of the US Government, I am just me, the following post refelects my views and ideas only.*
So, when this first broke, my initial reaction was to bang my head on my desk. My boss asked me what was up, and I pointed. He sighed and muttered something about jarheads and stupidity. The general reaction to this around me was "I hope these idiots go to courts-martial, they've managed to insult all four branches with their actions, shit like this is why the military was so badly treated after Vietnam."
What these guys did is against all the values we hold dear. Its against the absolutely mind-numbing amount of training we perform on a regular basis on the Code of Conduct, Geneva Conventions, its against our RoE, its just wrong. We all know it. We hate it when shit like this happens, because the actions of these few reflects on all of us. Most importantly, the news stories will run about their actions, but ignore the consequences they face. They ARE going to CM. They WILL be punished. Their actions are not tolerated, not because it was covered by the media, but because it happened at all. And the rest of us will go through yet another round of CoC/GC/RoE training.
No, because that actually hurts somebody.Jaythulhu said:
Yes, because those hurt nobody (assuming that by "body" you mean "corpse").
I'll assume that leaving "other Americans" off of the list of endangered soldiers was an accident; I'm sure you couldn't be so prejudiced as to assume that all American servicemen are represented by these.
Up until now I had been arguing solely about the act of urinating on corpses. If you want to talk about the recording and releasing of the video depicting this act, then yes, I'll agree it was stupid.
This really isn't important, since I've already established that there's nothing wrong with acting like what you would call "a pack of degenerate, filthy mongrels," but just for fun: Why should men act like they're in a society if they aren't in one? Society's rules are meant for application within a society, obviously, so why would new rules not be adopted upon leaving society? Once again, it has no relevance to our argument, just something to think about.
So, you are prejudiced.
No, I simply would have felt that said Taliban fighters were acting immaturely. For the record, that's also how I regard the actions of the soldiers in question; I just don't feel like it is something to be upset about (which is where we disagree).
But how would they know? They have no more experience being dead than I do, though I won't deny that their quality of life will be much lower than mine.
Let me clarify something: withing the context of this argument, I consider death to be nonexistence, the very base level. Nothing can be lower on the "scale" than death, including pain. Unless you can convince me that death is something else, I won't reverse my position