Marines posed with Nazi SS symbol in Afghanistan

[Cyrus Hanley]

I think that this issue can be chalked up to Hanlon's Razor, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

In this case, not stupidity but ignorance.

 

[Smertnik]

It's just two stylised s, jeez. Way to take a matter out of proportion.

Eh, it's just a symbol, a pretty badass, wicked cool symbol at that. The Nazi Schutzstaffel were bad, the symbol is not. But people will get offended over any little trivial thing. I remember when using the Swastika was a cool and okay thing to do, then some asshole uses it, and suddenly it's not okay because it'll offend people.

Yeah, I find this quite annoying. Damn Hitler and his NSDAP! He ruined a perfectly good moustache, too..

 

[Wintermoot]

even more proof the marines that are currently in Afghanistan are not fit for service.

 

[lord.jeff]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46329740/ns/us_news/t/marines-posed-nazi-ss-symbol-afghanistan/#.Tzc7zOP-_9o

I found this story when looking for a Current Event for my class, and my first reaction was facepalm, really, you thought it meant Sniper Scout. This is the reason everyone thinks Americans are retarded. Soldiers who think that the Nazi SS symbol means Sniper Scout. Even if it was true (which it wasn't) they would still be the least educated people ever. If you have had a History class, you have seen the SS symbol. What do you think about this?

actually in a lot of Californian history books, they fail to mention the SS at all let alone their symbol. America kinda has a iffy stance on history. It glosses over the subject entirely. In fact, in some books it claims that America took on the entire axis forces without any allies and won because "America is awesome."

Its sad, I know. I don't know about the education level in other states, but its true in California's case. Its even worse when they try to explain the histories of other countries.

Unfortunately most public schools in America suck at teaching history, sadly WWII is one of the wars we cover the most and we still fail to teach a lot of what went on then. Also I don't even remember WWI getting covered during high school and I find that most students can't even list a single reason as to what caused it or got America into the War.

OT: I've learned what the double S means in the past and I didn't instantly think of Nazis from looking at the flag, it not a symbol that's at the forefront of my mind, it could be an honest mistake on there parts. Are the soldier idiots that probably should have learned what they were getting themselves into? Yes, does being idiots make them racist, demons, or horrible people? No, I'd have to hate everyone if I hated people based on one moment of stupidity.

 

[GoaThief]

Furthermore, the swastika and Sig rune (what the thread was originally about) have existed for thousands of years before Nazi culture, and had very different meanings. Is it right to throw away thousand of years of symbolic meaning because of a handful of decades were the symbol was perverted to represent evil?

I don't actually believe that you are so dim-witted, which is why I asked. You just made a poor comparison, but it was interesting to know there's a town called swastika.

The part I quoted above is a different argument, context is all-important. When people who fought against that symbol are still alive and kicking, I don't think it would be appropriate for the same military they were in to employ it especially when you consider it's recent connotations. There's a world of difference between that and a Scandinavian traditionalist going about wearing a lightning rune. More to the point, the actual flag that's caused this outcry is a perfect SS replica - hardly something as innocuous as the Kiss logo for example. This may blow your mind but I am seriously considering a sayagata tattoo, which is basically interlocking swastikas, and I also know quite a few people with swastika tattoos.

Spoiler

 

[Iwata]

Who cares, it's just a symbol, with a different meaning. Stupid nazis ruined so many good things, still that never stopped my english teacher from using hitlers moustache, that doesn't mean that hes a nazi.

He can always claim it's a Charlie Chaplin 'stache.

Besides, as I explained earlier, saying "it's just a symbol" is wrong for every possible reason. Try showing that flag to a jewish survivor, and then telling him "hey, it's just a symbol". I'd love to see that.

You're right, symbols do have meaning. Those stupid Americans, so ignorant and insensitive. I mean it's not like any European would be rude enough to dress in Nazi memorabilia, and then claim he didn't actually mean it, especially not a member of a political family or anything like that

Oh wait...

Did you hear me saying anything about Americans? Idiots come in all shapes and sizes.

 

[spartan231490]

I've never seen the SS symbol. Only the swastika was ever taught as a symbol in relation to nazis. I could believe this to be an honest mistake. First, to be frank, most marines aren't going to be the most learned people in the world. They would have a hs education and whatever training the military gives them. HS education in the US is utter crap, so it's not surprising that they wouldn't have encountered the symbol, I didn't. Second, why would they have posed for it if they knew what it was? Most of the men in that picture probably had a family member who fought in WWII. Even if they didn't, why? It doesn't make sense unless the story they are telling is actually the truth

 

[Jegsimmons]

besides the fact the symbol is actually different from the ss logo (the bottom and tops are at a different angle, the thickness, and no circle around it).....this was being used since the scout snipers creation (or back in the 80s, which ever came first)

personally.....who gives a shit?

peace symbols from the east are swastikas that are different, the devil horns is used in metal, christians and jews used the pentagram at one point, and the cross behind the pope is upside down (because peter wanted to be crucified upside down because he didnt think he was worthy as jesus), and che guveras face has been capitalized on via t shirts by american retard hipsters.

so, i find nothing wrong with this. a symbol is only hurtful if it is used as such.

if anything its a big fuck you to the nazis...IRONY!!!

 

[Xan Krieger]

Who cares, it's just a symbol, with a different meaning. Stupid nazis ruined so many good things, still that never stopped my english teacher from using hitlers moustache, that doesn't mean that hes a nazi.

He can always claim it's a Charlie Chaplin 'stache.

Besides, as I explained earlier, saying "it's just a symbol" is wrong for every possible reason. Try showing that flag to a jewish survivor, and then telling him "hey, it's just a symbol". I'd love to see that.

You're right, symbols do have meaning. Those stupid Americans, so ignorant and insensitive. I mean it's not like any European would be rude enough to dress in Nazi memorabilia, and then claim he didn't actually mean it, especially not a member of a political family or anything like that

Oh wait...

In his defense wasn't he a WW2 reenactor?

As for the marines, well they are the reason the stereotype of marines being dumb exists. Sure there are smart ones but they don't make the news, these morons did.

 

[Jegsimmons]

Eh, it's just a symbol, a pretty badass, wicked cool symbol at that. The Nazi Schutzstaffel were bad, the symbol is not. But people will get offended over any little trivial thing. I remember when using the Swastika was a cool and okay thing to do, then some asshole uses it, and suddenly it's not okay because it'll offend people.

to be honest, the motives of NAZIs were evil and shitty, but you got to admit, they had a badass army

(also, hydra...just saying)

 

[The Austin]

It makes me fucking sick that those guys are the kind of people that are over in the middle east representing my country.

It's a damn disgrace.

 

[Lionsfan]

Did you hear me saying anything about Americans? Idiots come in all shapes and sizes.

You didn't, but by arguing that they should be held responsible for using a symbol that they might not have known about it just adds to the general thought of this thread about stupid Marines and stupid Americans

 

[Silvianoshei]

Eh, it's just a symbol, a pretty badass, wicked cool symbol at that. The Nazi Schutzstaffel were bad, the symbol is not. But people will get offended over any little trivial thing. I remember when using the Swastika was a cool and okay thing to do, then some asshole uses it, and suddenly it's not okay because it'll offend people.

So you were alive pre 1939?

 

[Iwata]

Did you hear me saying anything about Americans? Idiots come in all shapes and sizes.

You didn't, but by arguing that they should be held responsible for using a symbol that they might not have known about it just adds to the general thought of this thread about stupid Marines and stupid Americans

I find it very, very, VERY hard to find that people in a military medium would not know what the symbol stands for. Americans or not, soldiers from an army that fought against the Nazis will know that symbol. Hell, you'd think ONE of them would know it and go "hey guys, that kinda looks familiar"...

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

It looks more like some kind of Special Forces lighting bolt symbol to me...

It's true that SOME of them had to know what it was, but I doubt they all did. Therefore, you can't call them ALL assholes on the actions of just a few.

In addition, they HAVE to have a certain level of stupid here. 1) They all know what it is and they are dumb enough to stand in front of it for a picture that WILL be seen by millions, or 2) Some of them are assholes and the rest are dumb enough to not know what it is.

The second option seems FAR more likely.

I would just like to point out that this:

has been in use for a bit now.

YES! THIS! THANK YOU!!!

 

[imnot]

In fairness, it is a dam cool symbol, its kinda like a double lightning bolt.

I am so going to hell aren't I?

 

[The Man With the Soap]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46329740/ns/us_news/t/marines-posed-nazi-ss-symbol-afghanistan/#.Tzc7zOP-_9o

I found this story when looking for a Current Event for my class, and my first reaction was facepalm, really, you thought it meant Sniper Scout. This is the reason everyone thinks Americans are retarded. Soldiers who think that the Nazi SS symbol means Sniper Scout. Even if it was true (which it wasn't) they would still be the least educated people ever. If you have had a History class, you have seen the SS symbol. What do you think about this?

Don't like it? Move somewhere else.

 

[Lokithrsourcerer]

Not the same symbol... but close.

The horizontal lines aren't the same. The German SS has a slant on all of them, those are straight/level.

Spoiler

EDIT: Plus, it sounds like the USMC have been using it since the 80's. Since, you know, it's not like Nazis invented Armanen runes, the Anglo-Saxon Sigel, or the letter S.

*yawns

Wake me up when Thor takes back his swastika...

although your right it is not quite the same and the one the sniper scouts use has been used by them for years you think when they decided to use it someone would have pointed out the similarity. epic fail for that design committee

 

[Lionsfan]

Did you hear me saying anything about Americans? Idiots come in all shapes and sizes.

You didn't, but by arguing that they should be held responsible for using a symbol that they might not have known about it just adds to the general thought of this thread about stupid Marines and stupid Americans

I find it very, very, VERY hard to find that people in a military medium would not know what the symbol stands for. Americans or not, soldiers from an army that fought against the Nazis will know that symbol. Hell, you'd think ONE of them would know it and go "hey guys, that kinda looks familiar"...

That's possible, but one of the Scout Sniper logo's has been in use for quite a while now, and in said logo, there's a stylized SS on the logo,

So when one of them got a hold of the flag, they might not have seen it as the SS logo. That logo isn't really taught in a public education history class. It usually goes, rise of the Nazi's, start of the Blitzkrieg, go to the Holocaust, then back to the War for D-Day and the Atomic Bombings. The SS doesn't really get covered

 

[Random berk]

The American culture should. That's my point. The SS symbol isn't some sort of unknown thing that you know, wasn't common knowledge in America say 60 years ago. Something that isn't part of AMERICAN history. Something that isn't in the AMERICAN collective conscious.

I think it's the Swastika that's really known and embedded in the collective conscious. But the SS logo is never really used or associated with imagery from WWII unless you look into it, which Public Education doesn't really do. It's not an American thing either, people ***** about "how stupid we are" but I guarantee if you polled people from every country except Germany with "is this a Heavy Metal logo", the majority of people would say yes.

Except that its a glam rock logo.