Mass Effect 3 Ending Conspiracy. If you love Mass Effect and hated the ending, READ THIS PLEASE

Bravo 21

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Did some more thinking, even if the relays are destroyed, there is still the FTL drives, slower than mass relays, but still not half bad. Galactic Civilization isn't dead, it just moves slower now, more like, say Firefly, where it can take days, or even weeks to get to a neighboring system. Maybe... just maybe.. this isn't horrible, or maybe I'm just grasping at straws.
 

SajuukKhar

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Bravo 21 said:
Did some more thinking, even if the relays are destroyed, there is still the FTL drives, slower than mass relays, but still not half bad. Galactic Civilization isn't dead, it just moves slower now, more like, say Firefly, where it can take days, or even weeks to get to a neighboring system. Maybe... just maybe.. this isn't horrible, or maybe I'm just grasping at straws.
You also forget that many of the races had studies the mass relays for years and the asari were at the point they COULD build some.
 

Aprilgold

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This is just not true. It really isn't, like others have said, Bioware's writers just fucked up largely and now fans are trying to play it off as something else.

"Maybe it was a dream?" Probably not, why make a dream sequence at the end, and how the hell would you play off the Reapers getting into his brain and messing with his dream? And why the hell is he asleep to begin with?

"Maybe it was a [enter X thing here] that was capable of [enter Y Magical Mc-guffin here]" No, because, once again, it was just bad writing overall. Why introduce a thing that will be a major plot point without hinting to it first.

I'm sticking firm to my guns that this was not what they were intending to do, at all. And its just fans, once again, trying to cover up a Dev's fuck-ups because they can't face the fact that its just a fuck-up.
 

Joccaren

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SajuukKhar said:
I love how desperate fans are to invalidate the entire point of the game series so they can ride off into the sunset with their space-waifus.
I am curious as to what you think the entire point of the series was. To me it seemed to be up to your decisions making a difference and stopping the Reapers, not being given a Deus Ex ending with three choices that are basically the same [Unless you go massive extrapolation, and THAT is pathetic].
Also, its not wanting to 'ride off into the sunset with their space-waifus', its wanting a good ending. Not A Paragon good ending, but one that makes sense and is well written. Hell, I don't care if there is 0 chance for Shepard to survive, I just want a good ending sequence; One that uses the choices you've made throughout all the games, that makes the Reapers still seem ominous and incomprehensible - rather than beings with the intelligence less than that of a three year old child, one that actually tells you what is going on - as opposed to giving a short montage of cut together scenes that makes little sense. I could keep going on, but I don't see a reason to. The endings are bad, and people are looking for a way to make them better.
Aprilgold said:
"Maybe it was a [enter X thing here] that was capable of [enter Y Magical Mc-guffin here]" No, because, once again, it was just bad writing overall. Why introduce a thing that will be a major plot point without hinting to it first.
I agree with you that it really is just Bioware's bad writing, but really, I'll rewrite that first part of the quote, and the second part will still make sense:
"Maybe it was a Crucible that was capable of destroying/controlling/merging the Reapers/Organics&Synthetics".
Bioware already did introduce a thing that was a major plot point without hinting to it first. It is one of my main problems with the ending, and the game's plot on the whole. I would have preferred the Crucible be a Prothean Battleship design, and not some magical device capable of incredibly improbable BS.
 

Vykrel

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i really like this theory. it makes a ton of sense, especially the fact that the Catalyst took the form of the child from Shepard's dreams. first of all, it makes no sense for the Catalyst to even be some sentient AI or whatever. second, it is god damned ridiculous that it is in the form of a child.

the only thing that bugged me about this thread was the fact that you spelled Shepard's name three different ways. i assume you are really tired or something.
 

SajuukKhar

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Joccaren said:
I am curious as to what you think the entire point of the series was. To me it seemed to be up to your decisions making a difference and stopping the Reapers, not being given a Deus Ex ending with three choices that are basically the same [Unless you go massive extrapolation, and THAT is pathetic].
Also, its not wanting to 'ride off into the sunset with their space-waifus', its wanting a good ending. Not A Paragon good ending, but one that makes sense and is well written. Hell, I don't care if there is 0 chance for Shepard to survive, I just want a good ending sequence; One that uses the choices you've made throughout all the games, that makes the Reapers still seem ominous and incomprehensible - rather than beings with the intelligence less than that of a three year old child, one that actually tells you what is going on - as opposed to giving a short montage of cut together scenes that makes little sense. I could keep going on, but I don't see a reason to. The endings are bad, and people are looking for a way to make them better.
The game was about stopping the reapers and ending their stranglehold on galactic evolution. Which you did by destroying the Mass Relay/Citadel network and either
-Controlling
-Merging
-Destroying
them
.
.
The "choice" aspect of the game was ALWAYS simply a system that would determine "what are you going to get to fight the Reapers in ME3".

It was NEVER promised to be something that would give you hundreds of various pop-ups post game that told you what happened to people. It was never designed to be this thousands of different possible ending thing. That is something the fans made up their heads after the devs said "choice will affect how the game plays".

All it was touted as was that It would change the ending you got. Never was it stated how or to what extent it would, but the fans decided to take it to the extreme as they always do and are now blaming bioware for their own delusions.
.
.
Also the ending made sense

People try to bring up "BOTH SHEPARD MADE PEACE WITH THE GETHZZZ THUS TEH GOD CATALYST IS WRONG DUR HUR HUR HUR"

But what they purposefully ignore is that without The Reaper invasion the situation that led to synthetic understand would have never happened.

Shepard would have never fought saren and his geth, Shepard would have never stopped sovereign, the Geth would have never sent Legion to find Shepard, Shepard would have never met Legion, Shepard would have never been able to bring organics and synthetics together.

The hatred of synthetics that existed before the start of he game would have continued and would have ultimately resulted in war.

the catalyst was right, a galaxy without the reapers is a galaxy were synthetics are destined to destroy organics.
 

mirror's edgy

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I would honestly be much happier if pushing the button in the Citadel blew up the reapers and we all got to go home for pie after burying Anderson. Sure, that would be simple and quite predictable. Plot twists, dramatic reveals, and bittersweet heroic sacrifices are all good ending material... when their outcomes make the slightest bit of sense in line with the rest of your trilogy, at least. This theory is definitely fan wank, but I would be happy if Bioware just threw up their hands and said "Sure, pay five bucks and we'll make it happen." I just want to move into a nice house in Hawaii with Garrus and have a laugh about that whole traumatizing acid trip I had just before I saved everyone's asses. *Sigh*
 

Gennadios

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I'll agree that this is slightly easier to accept than the last minute fantasization of the Mass Effect universe, but it doesn't really help me one bit.

Yes, the worst parts of the ending are averted, but it still doesn't give me the closure of actually finding out just what the **** my Shep's attempt to broker galactic peace really led to.

I *really* wish there was an Obsidian/Fallout style black and white montage of what happened to the empires and the supporting cast and nothing more.
 

Lithan

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SajuukKhar said:
People try to bring up "BOTH SHEPARD MADE PEACE WITH THE GETHZZZ THUS TEH GOD CATALYST IS WRONG DUR HUR HUR HUR"

But what they purposefully ignore is that without The Reaper invasion the situation that led to synthetic understand would have never happened.

Shepard would have never fought saren and his geth, Shepard would have never stopped sovereign, the Geth would have never sent Legion to find Shepard, Shepard would have never met Legion, Shepard would have never been able to bring organics and synthetics together.

The hatred of synthetics that existed before the start of he game would have continued and would have ultimately resulted in war.

the catalyst was right, a galaxy without the reapers is a galaxy were synthetics are destined to destroy organics.
Um No? Because as the game spends like 2 hrs pointing out earlier, Synths have no interest in killing Organics. It's purely self-preservation for them. Edi and Legion won't shut up about how their decisions motivate solely/most basically out of self-preservation. So unless you believe that all organic species that have ever or will ever exist will seek to destroy their sentient creations like the Quarians did (despite Legion pointing out that the Quarians who OPPOSED that action were the majority until their leaders started wiping them out).

So ya, that whole argument is a straw man. Sentient creations seeking to destroy their creators hasn't flown since people stopped believing Freud about the whole Oedipus thing.
 

Harry Walsh

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It's just mirrored. It's a way to save time in production and it just happened it was missed. Like the wound on Jacob. If you watch hes wounded on his right side, but during the conversation in the med center you can clearly see it on his left side, and if you look hard enough (the right side is in shadow) you can see the wound on both of his sides at the same time. When modeling a character you frequently mirror the geometry from one side to the other, and the result is mirrored UVs, and textures.
 

SajuukKhar

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Lithan said:
Um No? Because as the game spends like 2 hrs pointing out earlier, Synths have no interest in killing Organics. It's purely self-preservation for them. Edi and Legion won't shut up about how their decisions motivate solely/most basically out of self-preservation. So unless you believe that all organic species that have ever or will ever exist will seek to destroy their sentient creations like the Quarians did (despite Legion pointing out that the Quarians who OPPOSED that action were the majority until their leaders started wiping them out).

So ya, that whole argument is a straw man. Sentient creations seeking to destroy their creators hasn't flown since people stopped believing Freud about the whole Oedipus thing.
Actually no, the game points out The Geth have no interest in killing organics at that time. And at that time they were in the middle of a war,.

Not wanting to kill organics in the middle of a Reaper war =/= The Geth would have never gone to war with organics if the Reapers never existed and instead The Quarrians and other organics constantly harassed them while they lived in the viel.

Again, you are using actions in a Reaper existent universe to justify actions in a Reaper nonexistent universe.

You argument is flawed at its very core.
 

Luap26

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I HAVE HOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Bravo 21

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SajuukKhar said:
Bravo 21 said:
Did some more thinking, even if the relays are destroyed, there is still the FTL drives, slower than mass relays, but still not half bad. Galactic Civilization isn't dead, it just moves slower now, more like, say Firefly, where it can take days, or even weeks to get to a neighboring system. Maybe... just maybe.. this isn't horrible, or maybe I'm just grasping at straws.
You also forget that many of the races had studies the mass relays for years and the asari were at the point they COULD build some.
Quite true. I suppose this merely puts sentient back to the level of humanity prior to the first contact war, but with all the blueprints they need and a massive drive to rebuild.

As for Shepard and the crew dying, I figure I might as well quote Miracle of Sound "It's time to end this story" and "we'll hold the line, at whatever the cost". Both things have now occured, with Shepard and the crew dying/being stranded, while the ending leaves a great deal of potential for more games in the Mass Effect universe.
and at least Shepard didn't pull a Vader-esque "Noooooo" like in the end of Revenge of the Sith, that would have been completely unforgivable.
 

SajuukKhar

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Bravo 21 said:
Quite true. I suppose this merely puts sentient back to the level of humanity prior to the first contact war, but with all the blueprints they need and a massive drive to rebuild.

As for Shepard and the crew dying, I figure I might as well quote Miracle of Sound "It's time to end this story" and "we'll hold the line, at whatever the cost". Both things have now occured, with Shepard and the crew dying/being stranded, while the ending leaves a great deal of potential for more games in the Mass Effect universe.
and at least Shepard didn't pull a Vader-esque "Noooooo" like in the end of Revenge of the Sith, that would have been completely unforgivable.
Well Shepard and his crew can live, and if you do the Merge or Control endings everyone gains the badassery of the Reapers which would make rebuilding the relays even faster.

The destruction ending is probably the worst one, but even then Shepard can live, and The Normandy crew survives, it just takes longer to rebuild the relays.

the galaxy really isn't that bad off without the relays.
 

Bravo 21

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SajuukKhar said:
Fair enough, it's just the merge/control endings struck me as something that Saren/TIM would do, and after so much time hating Cerberus and chasing Saren, They just weren't for me. You are correct about the endings though
 

Lithan

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Go play the Geth/Quarian missions again because you're wrong. The entire time was spent on one big guilt trip about how the Geth wanted to help the Quarians but the big mean Quarian government flipped out when it realized they were sentient and was all KILL THEM ALL. Meanwhile they're hitting themselves over the head with a hammer going "Does the creator wish me to destroy myself? How can I help?" After the Quarian shoot fleeing, surrendering and cowering geth enough times, Legion grabs a gun and enough Geth follow his lead that they defeat the Q's. Q's flee. They can't decide if they're more likely to survive by killing the Q's or not so they let them leave. Only instances of geth aggression are when some geth get indoctrinated/reprogrammed/whatever into the "heretics"... by the Reapers. And then in three when they act out of self defense and you get told at LEAST a half dozen times that if the Q's stopped shooting at them they'd never hurt a fly.
 

the27thvoice

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Just finished the game, and I can't really see where all the backlash is coming from. I'd always like more, but all options resulted in the threat being ended and the survivors seeing hope on the horizon. A better future.

As for the theories, I feel I need to point out a few things.
1. Paragon isn't good and renegade bad, paragon is the goodie-goodie nice hero who won't sacrifice the one for the many while renegade is the bleep-this-I'm-taking-the-shot guy. As such both shooting The Illusive Man and blasting the Reapers (along with the geth and EDI) WAS the renegade option, that's not backwards. Sacrificing yourself so noone else must die WAS paragon, no matter whose idea it was.
2. You disregard the very possible scenario that the slow movement was there to add a wounded feel to it all, walking on will alone. Nothing left to give, but unable to give up.
3. This one is probably the biggest argument I have. It didn't happen. Would have been a good show if it did, but it didn't. Shepard didn't wake to be told it was all a dream, he didn't do anything after that. The story ended. If this was all a ruse, we'd have seen its effects, but we didn't...because it wasn't a ruse.

But really, I liked the game, just like I liked KotOR, ME, DA, ME2 and DA2. Could it have been better? Sure. But I liked it. Had a bit of a 1984 feeling at the end where my wishes changed as the mission went along. I wanted to win so we could all get back to our old lives. Then I wanted to win so we could repopulate Earth and rebuild. Then I wanted to get people safely away to start over elsewhere. And finally I just wanted the damn thing to end, not really caring how.
 

SajuukKhar

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Lithan said:
Go play the Geth/Quarian missions again because you're wrong. The entire time was spent on one big guilt trip about how the Geth wanted to help the Quarians but the big mean Quarian government flipped out when it realized they were sentient and was all KILL THEM ALL. Meanwhile they're hitting themselves over the head with a hammer going "Does the creator wish me to destroy myself? How can I help?" After the Quarian shoot fleeing, surrendering and cowering geth enough times, Legion grabs a gun and enough Geth follow his lead that they defeat the Q's. Q's flee. They can't decide if they're more likely to survive by killing the Q's or not so they let them leave. Only instances of geth aggression are when some geth get indoctrinated/reprogrammed/whatever into the "heretics"... by the Reapers. And then in three when they act out of self defense and you get told at LEAST a half dozen times that if the Q's stopped shooting at them they'd never hurt a fly.
Again you are taking things in a Reaper existent universe and trying to use them as proof the same things would happen in a non reaper existent universe.

You are saying the equivalent of because humans evolved the way we did in a solar system with a yellow sun we would have evolved the same way if your sun was blue.

We wouldn't have, and using one as proof of the other isn't possible because they are different situations.