Mass Effect 3 Ending Conspiracy. If you love Mass Effect and hated the ending, READ THIS PLEASE

Lithan

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"I just wanted the damn thing to end, not really caring how."

So you and the writers have that in common.
 

fnartilter

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This is now my favorite theory on the internet. I really want to believe it because your points do make sense.

- I reloaded the pistol out of habit, didn't know it had infinite ammo, I was under the impression at the time that they were just hiding the hud for effect.

- Armor being melted and stuff, well, I figured that I really had no idea what sort of effect a Reaper's cannon would have on it. It must have been a glancing blow, because in every other encounter it results in instant death.

If that is for real. If the "1M1" isn't just simple copy-pasting of a graphic from one bulkhead to another. If it was just a dream-like sequence caused by indoctrination...

And not just lousy writing.
 

SajuukKhar

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Lithan said:
"I just wanted the damn thing to end, not really caring how."

So you and the writers have that in common.
No one here wanted that.

I wanted the ending to be based of of the themes of the series, which it did.
 

Lithan

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SajuukKhar said:
Lithan said:
Go play the Geth/Quarian missions again because you're wrong. The entire time was spent on one big guilt trip about how the Geth wanted to help the Quarians but the big mean Quarian government flipped out when it realized they were sentient and was all KILL THEM ALL. Meanwhile they're hitting themselves over the head with a hammer going "Does the creator wish me to destroy myself? How can I help?" After the Quarian shoot fleeing, surrendering and cowering geth enough times, Legion grabs a gun and enough Geth follow his lead that they defeat the Q's. Q's flee. They can't decide if they're more likely to survive by killing the Q's or not so they let them leave. Only instances of geth aggression are when some geth get indoctrinated/reprogrammed/whatever into the "heretics"... by the Reapers. And then in three when they act out of self defense and you get told at LEAST a half dozen times that if the Q's stopped shooting at them they'd never hurt a fly.
Again you are taking things in a Reaper existent universe and trying to use them as proof the same things would happen in a non reaper existent universe.

You are saying the equivalent of because humans evolved the way we did in a solar system with a yellow sun we would have evolved the same way if your sun was blue.

We wouldn't have, and using one as proof of the other isn't possible because they are different situations.

Except the reapers played no role whatsoever in the what three hundred years or so the Geth evolved in. You need to give up. Violence without purpose is illogical. The game echos this over and over and over in making the point that both EDI and geth have only been violent as a reaction. The games entire premise for the Geths existence being supremely peaceful if not forced to violence is made so blatantly clear in ME3 that you have to actually say "Ok, we get it already," after the fourth or fifth time Legion talks about how the Geth are only acting in self defense, or shows you a video of them offering to surrender and be deactivated to prevent conflict. This has nothing to do with the reapers forcing people to band together. In Mass Effect, AI's stand to gain nothing from violence, so they are nonviolent unless forced to defend themselves. The game could not possibly make this any more clear. And then in the last scene it goes OH MY GOD THE ROBOTS WILL EAT YOUR BABIES AND RAPE YOUR FACE!
 

Crazy Zaul

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Adam Jensen said:
I don't think it was a dream or hallucination or indoctrination. I think Bioware just royally fucked up. And that texture thing is just a mistake. It happens.
More likely it's just this.
 

SajuukKhar

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Lithan said:
Except the reapers played no role whatsoever in the what three hundred years or so the Geth evolved in. You need to give up. Violence without purpose is illogical. The game echos this over and over and over in making the point that both EDI and geth have only been violent as a reaction. The games entire premise for the Geths existence being supremely peaceful if not forced to violence is made so blatantly clear in ME3 that you have to actually say "Ok, we get it already," after the fourth or fifth time Legion talks about how the Geth are only acting in self defense, or shows you a video of them offering to surrender and be deactivated to prevent conflict. This has nothing to do with the reapers forcing people to band together. In Mass Effect, AI's stand to gain nothing from violence, so they are nonviolent unless forced to defend themselves. The game could not possibly make this any more clear. And then in the last scene it goes OH MY GOD THE ROBOTS WILL EAT YOUR BABIES AND RAPE YOUR FACE!
Except Quarrian technology is based off of The Mass Relay technology, the reapers technology, and Geth technology is based off of Quarrian technology.

So you are just plain wrong in saying the reaper didn't influence the Geth technologically.
.
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Also as I pointed out the Geth would only start the war after organics continued to harass them, defending oneself from aggression is not pointless, so your argument falls apart right there.

It is exactly the reason why the mourning war was started.
 

Lithan

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SajuukKhar said:
Lithan said:
Except the reapers played no role whatsoever in the what three hundred years or so the Geth evolved in. You need to give up. Violence without purpose is illogical. The game echos this over and over and over in making the point that both EDI and geth have only been violent as a reaction. The games entire premise for the Geths existence being supremely peaceful if not forced to violence is made so blatantly clear in ME3 that you have to actually say "Ok, we get it already," after the fourth or fifth time Legion talks about how the Geth are only acting in self defense, or shows you a video of them offering to surrender and be deactivated to prevent conflict. This has nothing to do with the reapers forcing people to band together. In Mass Effect, AI's stand to gain nothing from violence, so they are nonviolent unless forced to defend themselves. The game could not possibly make this any more clear. And then in the last scene it goes OH MY GOD THE ROBOTS WILL EAT YOUR BABIES AND RAPE YOUR FACE!
Except Quarrian technology is based off of The Mass Relay technology, the reapers technology, and Geth technology is based off of Quarrian technology.

So you are just plain wrong in saying the reaper didn't influence the Geth technologically.
.
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also as I pointed out the Geth would only start the war after organics continued to harass them, defending oneself from agress is not pointless, so your argument falls apart right there.
You're assuming that reaper tech was used in the original Geth which is based on what? The fact that the game makes no mention of this despite mentioning people using reaper tech, oh about a thousand times, basically at every opportunity. And if you think that rudamentary VI technology (which geth were designed to be, then they gained complexity through networking) would be derived from FTL travel tech, well then you should go back to school.


And you should read my first post. Obviously the presumption is that at some point there will have to be organics that don't seek ceaselessly to destroy their creations. Hard to fathom not wanting to do that, I know, but surely some would be able to resist that urge to create life and then destroy it. I mean not every parent drowns their child at birth... granted most do, but still.
 

SajuukKhar

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Lithan said:
You're assuming that reaper tech was used in the original Geth which is based on what? The fact that the game makes no mention of this despite mentioning people using reaper tech, oh about a thousand times, basically at every opportunity.


And you should read my first post. Obviously the presumption is that at some point there will have to be organics that don't seek ceaselessly to destroy their creations. Hard to fathom not wanting to do that, I know, but surely some would be able to resist that urge to create life and then destroy it. I mean not every parent drowns their child at birth... granted most do, but still.
No, I never once said that Reaper Technology was used in the creation of the geth. I said reaper tech influenced Quarrian tech and Quarrian tech influenced Geth tech. Next time dont make up things about what I said.

Also look at human history, there has never been a point were humans didn't seek to destroy that which isn't them. It is one of the most basic biological impulses of all life.
 

Lithan

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SajuukKhar said:
Lithan said:
You're assuming that reaper tech was used in the original Geth which is based on what? The fact that the game makes no mention of this despite mentioning people using reaper tech, oh about a thousand times, basically at every opportunity.


And you should read my first post. Obviously the presumption is that at some point there will have to be organics that don't seek ceaselessly to destroy their creations. Hard to fathom not wanting to do that, I know, but surely some would be able to resist that urge to create life and then destroy it. I mean not every parent drowns their child at birth... granted most do, but still.
No, I never once said that Reaper Technology was used in the creation of the geth. I said reaper tech influenced Quarrian tech and Quarrian tech influenced Geth tech.
Except that doesn't make any sense at all. That's like saying that reaper tech influenced Toothbrush tech because toothbrushes were made by civilizations that had access to the relays.
 

WanderingFool

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SajuukKhar said:
I love how desperate fans are to invalidate the entire point of the game series so they can ride off into the sunset with their space-waifus.

At first it was funny
Then it got pathetic
Now its funny again.
Its pathetically funny...

...
...

yeah, I got nothing else...
 

Texas Joker 52

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Turtleboy1017 said:
*very-interesting-theory-snip*
In a very strange, twisted sort of way, that makes some sense. And personally, I hope sometime soon, Bioware either pops up after a little while and goes, "Yep. That was our plan, so get ready for some kick-ass DLC or a patch so you can really see the outcome!", or simply takes that opportunity and runs with it. I can see a lot of posts of people simply going "People whining for their space-waifus/husbandos! Get over it, its a great downer ending!", but the fact is, the ending, taken as it is without looking into it as you have, was unsatisfactory and invalidates everything my Shepard and countless other Shepards have done, not only in previous games, but in the preparation against the Reapers. I don't care if Shepard dies, but I do care how my Shepard dies.

When Thane ends up dying after his fight with Kai Leng on the Citadel, it would have been sad just for him to die right there. But not as heart-wrenching or tear-jerking as it was with Kolyat there, reciting a Drell prayer for both Thane and Shepard. I wasn't even a big fan of Thane, and damn did it move me.

Another example is Legions sacrifice to further the Geth. There was meaning behind it. I'd like to think that most of us who are upset with the ending, at least concerning Shepard, aren't upset at the fact he or she died. But in how.

Unfortunately, I can see a small inconsistency that works against your theory.

The Reaper you end up killing on Rannoch. Its final words seem to confirm the reason behind the Reaper invasions, though I sincerely hope there can be another reason behind the Reapers themselves besides some 'God-child'.

Still, a very interesting theory, and I'm going to hold onto it. Might end up making future playthroughs less depressing in the end.
 

Lithan

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"there has never been a point were humans didn't seek to destroy that which isn't them It is one of the most basic biological impulses of all life."


That's pretty absurd even for the internet. If we're going to just start making shit up and pretending we know what we're talking about, then an omniscient godchild told me you're wrong.
 

SajuukKhar

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Lithan said:
Except that doesn't make any sense at all. That's like saying that reaper tech influenced Toothbrush tech because toothbrushes were made by civilizations that had access to the relays.
Except there is a very large difference in that spaceship, mass effect drives, and mass effect based weapons ALL come from the Mas Relay technology.

All of the things related to those, which is a very large part of galactic civilization is influenced by those.

Your toothbrush example is a hyperbole having to do nothing with that we are discussing.
 

Lithan

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And which of those things existed in the helper/agriculture robots with a wireless networking system designed to increase processing power?


Hell real world technology is damn close to building what the Geth started as. Saying that there was any reason whatsoever to start stuffing parts of mysterious space stations that let you leap across the galaxy into a robot designed to harvest your wheat is grasping pretty hard for straws.


ME is pretty damn clear on this. No magical EEZO going into Geth. They formed AI through brute force. Network enough sufficiently powerful processors together and it eventually emulates intelligence effectively. They DO get reaper upgrades in ME3... and Legion makes a point of it giving them "True" intelligence.
 

SajuukKhar

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Lithan said:
And which of those things existed in the helper/agriculture robots with a wireless networking system designed to increase processing power?


Hell real world technology is damn close to building what the Geth started as. Saying that there was any reason whatsoever to start stuffing parts of mysterious space stations that let you leap across the galaxy into a robot designed to harvest your wheat is grasping pretty hard for straws.
The Geth stopped being that a long time ago, and have evolved, and have used the Mass Relays and have ships and weapons that use Mass Effect fields.

the geth's technology has been inflused by the Reapers.
 

Lithan

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I think you've backtracked sufficiently that I don't need to prove you wrong anymore.

Theres nothing in any way shape or form that implies in even the weakest sense that geth processes prior to the reaper upgrades in ME3 utilize reaper tech, or anything derived from reaper tech, or anything derived from anything derived from reaper tech.

You accuse these guys wanting it all to be a dream of grasping at straws... you're far far worse than they are. The ending makes no sense because the Devs got lazy, rushed or stupid. It's that simple. At least their delusion is motivated out of wishing for something better. Yours is just wanting to be right.
 

Adrian Burt

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Mass Effect is about something, it's about a question, a question that is asked in every installment. Is subservience preferable to extinction? It was there in Mass Effect 1, Saren believed the answer was yes, but he had been indoctrinated by Sovereign. In Mass Effect 2 we say the results of that subservience with the Collectors. Now in Mass Effect 3 the question is asked again, by the Reapers, to you, and if you know the Reapers the answer sure as hell is yes. So it makes sense that they would not want you to destroy them, they would do everything in their power to make you see that it's better to keep to Reapers around then destroy them. Honestly given how many people I've seen calling the destruction option the bad option, I would say it worked. I don't think this was all a dream, but given the inversion of the Paragon/Renegade mechanics Reapers trying to indoctrinate Sheppard makes sense. It's also why there are no dialogue options during the conversation with the god-kid, even though the last conversation with TIM was a boss fight with words. The god-kid said that synthetics and organics will always fight, that differences will always breed strife, and then I looked back on what I accomplished in the game, and I said "No." Maybe I did destroy the mass relays, but how could that destroy the geth, who are based on a completely different technology? How can it destroy EDI, who is based on an Alliance VI? I think the god-kid was lying to you, fucking with you, how else does indoctrination work? As for the closure that so many angry fans ***** about? Well my Sheppard is still alive at the end, and the crew of the Normandy survived, somewhere out there. Perhaps the next story of the Sheppard was how he got his wayward flock back?
 

foofoojr2

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SajuukKar, you made some good points at the beginning, but now you just seem to be trying to piss people off (me particularly with your constant misspelling of 'Quarian').

Now back to the endings. The first time I saw mine (Control, last night), I felt nothing. Then I moped and whined and kept telling myself it couldn't be true. Then I waited, rewatched it, and took each ending for what it was: BioWare's official ending. When I read a YouTube comment about how Shepard was sacrificing his very being to end the conflict (while watching the Synthesis ending and listening to Clint Mansell's GORGEOUS tune), I wept silently and slowly. I refuse to believe that this series, after all the care that fans and developers have given it thus far, ends in a manner that the developers didn't carefully and deeply consider.

I'd love to believe it's all a big conspiracy, but the cold, hard fact is... It isn't. From Ashes wasn't vital to the story as many fans claim (although it did give nice exposition for the Collector-like statues on Thessia. Seriously, though; I thought they were supposed to look like Husks). Neither will any DLC released later. The dreamlike sequence and whatnot was reminiscent to the ending of Uncharted 3 for me; however, in Uncharted, they actually revealed the hallucinations to BE hallucinations. This is the final product, and no one is going to change it.

The ending, in my opinion, gives great closure. In Synthesis (which I see as the true ending), you sacrifice your very essence to completely and fully resolve the conflict. I can't think of a better ending for Shepard. I'd love to go off into the sunset with Liara, but that 'final gift' she gives you (and no, it isn't sex) just adds to the finality of their relationship. With the destruction of the Mass Relays, the Reaper's hold on the galaxy is destroyed. As Sovereign said, the Reapers forged the relays so that galactic civilization would develop along the paths they desired. What bugs me, though, is that, by their destruction, everyone should be dead. Joker being mid-jump saves him. I'd like to cling to the notion that everyone survives, so I will. Garrus and Tali live happily ever after on that unknown planet (and DO NOT die of starvation!) alongside EDI and Joker. Liara gives birth to little Mordin, and everyone helps raise her. But I digress...

In reference to the Reaper's motivation, it makes sense. This being wants to preserve life at any cost. In order to combat the 'chaos' of eventual destruction at the hands of our creations, they preserve the best batch of organics in Reaper form. As Harbinger said, "Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater". By this, he isn't referring to the other species; he means the Reapers. I would have absolutely loved to chat up old Harby in the end about why; King of the Reapers would seem a fitting representative for conveying their purpose. The god-child thing is a bit confusing, but deeply symbolic (though I'm not quite sure how).

I am growing to accept the ending. It, despite what we all think, hope, and dream, is what BioWare intended it to be in the end (which I know is a tautology). Pure and simple.
 

SajuukKhar

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Lithan said:
I think you've backtracked sufficiently that I don't need to prove you wrong anymore.

Theres nothing in any way shape or form that implies in even the weakest sense that geth processes prior to the reaper upgrades in ME3 utilize reaper tech, or anything derived from reaper tech, or anything derived from anything derived from reaper tech.

You accuse these guys wanting it all to be a dream of grasping at straws... you're far far worse than they are. The ending makes no sense because the Devs got lazy, rushed or stupid. It's that simple. At least their delusion is motivated out of wishing for something better. Yours is just wanting to be right.
Yes because Mass effect engines, mass effect gun and other Mass effect based weapons which arell come from Reaper tech and are all used by the gun means they havent used Reaper tech?

Do you even understand how contradictory that is?
 

.No.

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Lithan said:
I think you've backtracked sufficiently that I don't need to prove you wrong anymore.

Theres nothing in any way shape or form that implies in even the weakest sense that geth processes prior to the reaper upgrades in ME3 utilize reaper tech, or anything derived from reaper tech, or anything derived from anything derived from reaper tech.

You accuse these guys wanting it all to be a dream of grasping at straws... you're far far worse than they are. The ending makes no sense because the Devs got lazy, rushed or stupid. It's that simple. At least their delusion is motivated out of wishing for something better. Yours is just wanting to be right.
I suggest you stop giving a toss about proving him wrong.
The guy you're arguing with is an unholy fusion of EternalNothingness and Zeel.