Mass Effect 3 Ending Conspiracy. If you love Mass Effect and hated the ending, READ THIS PLEASE

TitanAtlas

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At some moments you give some good points, wich are completely destroyed by some really dumb logic. In wich makes me render everything has invalid xD

The way i see it (before choosing endings), you charge with your team, but the blasts of the reaper are killing the soldiers. Your team couldv easily got hit by a blast and knocked unconsious. Sheperd and Anderson made it.

Sheperd + Illusive man last conversation. This discussion and trade of arguments make me doubt shep was dreaming or dead.

The ONLY moment i would believe sheperd dies, is when he's trying to reach the control panel and sees "Jason" the 'Citadel souls'. The man is bleeding and falls and when he gets up he is almost perfectly fine. (almost).

And to the choices, i personnaly haven't watched 2 of them, just one, the one in wich he dies to create a new kind of DNA in wich synthetics and organics become one. For me i think that ending is perfect, i liked it a LOT and i think the series deserved it. And the after credit scene with the kid and man talking made me think the universe was at peace, with a incredible sense of harmony, showing me Sheperd didn't died for nothing.

I wouldn't mind seeing what happened to every other character you met (how theyr lives changed), even if it was small clips, but what the fans got was not bad.

I will be checking the other endings later, but for now, i'm glad of how the series turned out to be.
 

Something Amyss

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Conspiracy theory sounds just about right. Conveniently arranging a bunch of facts out of context that in context have much better explanations.
 

WanderingFool

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poiumty said:
It's scary how easily people can fabricate their own reality to conveniently replace something they don't want to be there.

Wonder if that's how religion started.
It is.

I like the theory, but I doubt it still. But there is something im curious about. Does the destroy ending actually destory all technology based off of the Reaper Tech? Like I know all the weapons and ships and such a completely based around Reaper tech now, but does it all jsut stop working? It doesnt actually give a clear answer does it? Or did I miss something, somewhere.
 

Turtleboy1017

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SajuukKhar said:
I love how desperate fans are to invalidate the entire point of the game series so they can ride off into the sunset with their space-waifus.

At first it was funny
Then it got pathetic
Now its funny again.
The condescending nature of your post has been noted. We aren't desperate, we're unhappy. I especially like how you lump together all of us "desperate fans" into desperate virgins who only have romantic links with our virtual video game characters.
 

Dalavita

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Here's what I'm wondering.

If this hallucination story really is true, then how come the game ends after you choose the destroy reapers option?

According to the theory Shepard should be unconscious and fighting with indoctrination, and the destroy option should break you out of the indoctrination.

However, Shepard shouldn't be in any position to stop the reapers if he breaks the indoctrination, since he's unconscious in the streets of London, but since the game ends after choosing the destroy option, it means you were actually in a position where you could stop the reapers.

There are two ways out of this that I can see.

The hallucination theory is wrong, and Bioware screwed the ending up.

Bioware cut the ending off to be sold separately as DLC at a later date where this does in fact happen, i.e you choose the destroy option and wake up to continue playing the game.

If this is actually the case, I'll be enraged.
 

RJ 17

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Turtleboy1017 said:
And what do we burn apart from snippage? MOAR SNIPPAGE!!!
Very well thought out post, however I just don't think there's any HARD evidence to support it. Everything you've offered and presented is 100% speculation, just like everything I'm about to post is 100% speculation.

First, a little note: there are hints that the Reapers are tools that a god-species is utilizing to maintain balance and order in the universe, it is that very line that you quoted: "We are your salvation through destruction", sounds a lot like what the Catalyst says "We destroy all organic races and preserve them in reaper form." Sounds like "Salvation through Destruction" to me. Why else would the Reapers be building a Human Reaper in ME 2? Just for kicks? Just because the humans gave'em a bloody nose? That's possible, but it's equally possible that the Reapers decided that the human race was worth preserving.

As for my thoughts on the endings, I've been doing the rounds in these ME 3 ending threads with the same "defense", so I'll simply quote one of said defenses that explains my interpretation of the endings which - just like yours - are entirely speculation.

RJ 17 said:
TsunamiWombat said:
A fair enough analysis of the situation, however I do have a few points that I'd like to raise. Most of them can be seen in more detail here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.353744-My-thought-process-during-the-end-of-ME3-SPOILERS?page=1 (I join the conversation about a quarter of the way down page 1).

Since I've been making the rounds putting up a mild defense not so much to completely exonerate the ME 3 ending but rather to put some perspective on it that I think some people might be overlooking. As the points I raise here can be seen in the thread that I linked above, I won't go into too much detail, but just hit on a couple of the major points.

Let me start off first by saying that I agree completely with the notion that the endings could have been hashed out better to give the audience more closure that I think we were desperately seeking. Something like the ending to Dragon Age in which we get text description of "And under Harrowmont's leadership, the dwarves returned to their reclusive, isolationist ways, etc etc" for each of the different races in the galaxy. That said, however, if you apply a bit of logic to extrapolate what future each of the possible endings could lead to, you'll get your closure.

Now, in regards to what I've noticed is the biggest and most common complaint about the endings: all the choices you made in the previous 3 games have no effect or purpose, the endings completely negate them. This simply is not true. Stop and think about what the ultimate goal behind all your choices was. What destination were your choices driving you towards. ME 3 shows us that the purpose behind every decision you made is to build the united galactic fleet. This fleet serves absolutely one purpose, and it is not utter destruction of the Reapers (which I imagine most people thought it would be). The sole purpose of the united galactic fleet was to build, guard, and ultimately deliver the Crucible to the Catalyst...in that sole mission, the fleet succeeded. With the fleet's success comes the justification for all the choices you made so far. Kill or save the Rachni, kill or unite the Geth, etc. All your decisions either strength or weaken your fleet, they're not meant to be the ultimate deciding factor of how the story all ends. Was this a good choice by the writers? Not necessarily, since as I said I think most people were wanting their choices to effect the ending rather than open the path for the ending. But as you mentioned: Bioware has built a business on experimenting with storytelling, I just think that like with Dragon Age 2: many people missed what they were doing with the story here.

Now, in regards to the complaint of "Oh my god these endings are all so depressing! No matter what Shepard essentially dooms civilization by destroying the relays!" Well let's just stop and think about each ending, shall we?

Paragon Ending: Enslave the Reapers. Many people think this is the Renegade ending because it was the Illusive Man's plan, but in truth it is the Paragon ending. For starters, like with everything in the ME universe, it's color-coordinated: Blue light on the ramp and a blue beam/shockwave released by the Citadel, and as we all know: blue = Paragon. But furthermore, think about what the outcome would be. Yes, the relays are destroyed, but the Reapers still exist. Now, though, they are controlled by Paragon Shepard's benevolent will. As such, it really isn't that far of a stretch to believe that Shepard will turn the Reapers from being the terrifying destroyers of the galaxy to being instrumental in its construction. Given that the Reapers were the ones that built the relays in the first place, they could just as easily do so again.

Renegade Ending: Destorying All Synthetics. Again, contrary to popular belief, this is the Renegade ending (red light, red beam/shockwave, etc). This offers the bleakest outlook for the future as Shepard wipes out an entire race (the Geth) and a close, personal friend (EDI) in order to assure the absolute destruction of the Reapers. With the Reapers destroyed, the secrets to building the relays will be lost. However, the Protheans managed to build the conduit, so it is possible that society could still rebuild the relays, it'll just take a much longer time.

They Lived Happily Ever After Ending: Synthesis. I'd imagine this is the "and the galaxy became a utopian ideal "world" filled with peace from then on out" ending. All life - synthetic and organic - now share the same DNA. I can only imagine that this would lead to advances in technology and the possibility to rebuild society, coexisting with the now pacified Reapers.

All wars require a period of reconstruction and rebuilding once they're over, Shepard grants the galaxy the hope for the future, the purpose to rebuild, and the comfort of peace.

And just a side note: there most certainly was a cathartic moment in the game...it's before you make your fiinal push to the Reaper Beam and you're walking through the outpost to meet back up with Anderson to plan the final assault. All your comrades get to say their goodbyes...and at least personally, it felt more like they were saying goodbye to ME and not just Shepard...seeing as how this is indeed the final chapter of the story.

And just to be a dick: I believe you're using the word "penultimate" wrong as it means "second to last". :p
To me, the reason why I stick to my perspective rather than change to yours isn't personal bias, but as I mentioned in the beginning: lack of HARD evidence to support your claim. There's one fundamental flaw in your thinking: the actual ending itself. No matter what you choose, the marines on the ground see the Reapers either get destroyed or fly away. If the Control and Synthesis endings were actually indoctrination traps to make Shepard make the WRONG choice, then why do the Reapers fly away anyways? Wouldn't they be all troll-faced "LOLZ SHEP DONE MADE THE WRONG CHOICE! U MAD?" and keep on the rampage? Sticking with nothing but what we see and experience in the ending, there's more hard evidence to support my extrapolation than yours.

But once again, I would like to emphasize that everything that you and I are saying is 100% speculation. We've both got things we can point to, but in the end the only we're just taking stabs in the dark here.

For more detail on my thoughts on the ending, please click the link in the quoted portion of this response and skim through that thread, my responses start about a quarter of the way down the first page. I've been resisting the urge to simply make my own ME 3 topic since it seems about 75-80% of the people on this site just skip over all posts except the OP and the first 5-10 responses, though I'm still considering making my own topic since I think I've got a valid soap-box as well. :p
 

WanderingFool

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RJ 17 said:
Beautiful theory, but to long to have posted a second time, so snip.
Now whether or not thats what Bioware had in mind, that is deffinitly how im going to interpret the endings, once I can get my hands on the game to play it.
 

Richardplex

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I'm going with this theory, balls to what Bioware gave me. At the end of the day, this is MY story of MY Shepard, so what ever makes me happy.

Though I did subconsciously think it was indoctrination. It took me two minutes to decide, and I was limping towards the control/synthesis options. But then I thought "TIM decided control, because he was indoctrinated." And I've been around reapers a lot more than TIM - I've been in one more than once. So I turned around and limped to the least appealing one, destruction. And apparently, that's the only one in which you get to live.

Oh, and the gasping scene? Under rubble, concrete, earth materials. VERY different to that of the clinical citadel.
 

Jaeke

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DAMMIT THE REAPERS TRICKED ME!!!!
STARTING NEW PLAYTHROUGH NOW!!!!


I hope to high heaven this is true and if it is, I feel ashamed of not seeing this earlier, how could I be so blind!

Dammit Shepard, I failed you. We're going to fix this together!

Ahem... I have some ass kicking to do....
 

boag

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hulksmashley said:
I have a question that I'm going to spoiler, but would really like answered. It's about the "best" ending. Not that I would really be willing call the damn thing best.

I chose the destroy ending, and had a high enough galactic readiness rating that the end showed my Shepard taking a breath. Why did this Shepard still have her real armor on, surrounded by concrete? On the citadel she was wearing some horrible burned armor, and there definitely isn't any reinforce concrete. What's with that?
Because Either Bioware pulled off the most intelligent awesome ending ever by making your last moments after the lazor shoots an indoctrination illusion, or they just dun goofed.
 

Jaeke

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SajuukKhar said:
I love how desperate fans are to invalidate the entire point of the game series so they can ride off into the sunset with their space-waifus.

At first it was funny
Then it got pathetic
Now its funny again.
*sigh* You know how long ive had to put up with your damn bullshit? Thinking "Don't give this jackass the satisfaction, its not worth the hassle of having to put up with this pretentious bastard's attitude."

You know what? I don't care anymore.
SHUT THE FUCK UP.
 

RJ 17

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boag said:
hulksmashley said:
I have a question that I'm going to spoiler, but would really like answered. It's about the "best" ending. Not that I would really be willing call the damn thing best.

I chose the destroy ending, and had a high enough galactic readiness rating that the end showed my Shepard taking a breath. Why did this Shepard still have her real armor on, surrounded by concrete? On the citadel she was wearing some horrible burned armor, and there definitely isn't any reinforce concrete. What's with that?
Because Either Bioware pulled off the most intelligent awesome ending ever by making your last moments after the lazor shoots an indoctrination illusion, or they just dun goofed.
Or it could be as I suggested in my previous response in this thread: people just didn't see what Bioware was trying to do with the story, as was the case with Dragon Age 2. :p

Now, I'm not saying it's good writing to leave it to your audience to fill in the blanks of your game's ending the way that I have done (extrapolating what each ending means for the galaxy's future), but at the same time it really isn't that hard for the audience to do if they just put a little thought to it.
 

Professor M

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Turtleboy1017 said:
I'm starting to agree with this theory more and more, and just had some thoughts of my own.

I was just thinking, at the point when you start running down the hill, it gives you a marker which says "conduit". I could be wrong but I don't remember the glowing blue beam being called a "conduit" at any point before this, and I was reminded very strongly of the run to the conduit in ME1. Then there was the conversation with TIM, where you slowly convince him that he's wrong and through a series of persuasion options he shoots himself in the head - just like Saren in the first game. Considering the rest of the game was so amazing, I thought it was odd that Bioware was re-hashing a 'final boss' so blatantly (especially as TIM made it clear every other encounter your persuasion options didn't work), but I didn't think much of it at the time. Looking back though, is it Harbinger re-using Shepherds last triumph over an indoctrinated foe to make him think he won?

Also just re-doing the last part, but I swear the citadel is just littered with dead bodies as anyone would expect to find, and the Anderson says "..looks just like your description of the collector base", at which point the tell tale tubes and stuff start to appear on the walls - the power of suggestion affecting Shep? I could be wrong though, I'm tired

EDIT: Actually everything Anderson says to you influences what you see around you. He mentions the chasm, then you come to it, then he says he's found a control panel, then you find a control panel
 

Akarezik

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Richardplex said:
I'm going with this theory, balls to what Bioware gave me. At the end of the day, this is MY story of MY Shepard, so what ever makes me happy.

Though I did subconsciously think it was indoctrination. It took me two minutes to decide, and I was limping towards the control/synthesis options. But then I thought "TIM decided control, because he was indoctrinated." And I've been around reapers a lot more than TIM - I've been in one more than once. So I turned around and limped to the least appealing one, destruction. And apparently, that's the only one in which you get to live.

Oh, and the gasping scene? Under rubble, concrete, earth materials. VERY different to that of the clinical citadel.
It's not just Shepard gasping for breath that lends weight to the indoctrinated/hallucination theory, but several other things about that scene. For example, if you listen closely in the background, there's a distict metallic/synthetic sound that sounds similiar to a Reaper or husk, but they should be all dead if you chose to destroy them.

And as you pointed out, the scene shows Shepard among rubble clearly not like the Citadel, and even if it was, could Shep really survive the power conduit's explosion, the breaking up of the Citadel, re-entry, and the subsequent impact with Earth, all without any armor or way to break a fall? It just seems so preposterous, considering Shepard died after falling out of orbit in ME 2, and had armor, a thinner atmosphere, and lower gravity working in their favor.

More likely that Shepard was grazed by the laser, his squadmates and some other soldiers made it to the beam, and the whole dream was Harbinger, or maybe his own subconscious, trying to snuff out their drive to go on, and by choosing the "Control" or "Synthesis" options, Shepard gives up and succumbs to their wounds, but by choosing "Destroy", and finishing what you started, you drag yourself back to the real world, possibly just in time to watch the Crucible do what it really does.

Note that my theory on the ending choices is simply trying the figure out why it only shows Shepard alive and still on Earth for "Destroy", and not the other two, assuming it's all just a nightmare.
 

Turtleboy1017

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The destroy ending is the most obvious factor to me. I'm talking about the part where Shepard lives, gasping under the rubble. Why include it? What purpose does it serve? The odds of Shepard actually surviving anything that occurs on the citadel is literally zero. It just wouldn't happen.

So why would they include that part? What is technically the most difficult to obtain, with a required EMS of 5000 or higher? Your guess is as good as mine... and my guess is that Bioware is craftier than we give them credit for.
 

Akarezik

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Turtleboy1017 said:
The destroy ending is the most obvious factor to me. I'm talking about the part where Shepard lives, gasping under the rubble. Why include it? What purpose does it serve? The odds of Shepard actually surviving anything that occurs on the citadel is literally zero. It just wouldn't happen.

So why would they include that part? What is technically the most difficult to obtain, with a required EMS of 5000 or higher? Your guess is as good as mine... and my guess is that Bioware is craftier than we give them credit for.
You're right, for all that happens beforehand, those 20 seconds at the end throw it all for a loop. Why include it, AND make it the hardest to obtain, unless everything on the Citadel never happened?
 

The_Lost_King

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SajuukKhar said:
Lithan said:
Except that doesn't make any sense at all. That's like saying that reaper tech influenced Toothbrush tech because toothbrushes were made by civilizations that had access to the relays.
Except there is a very large difference in that spaceship, mass effect drives, and mass effect based weapons ALL come from the Mas Relay technology.

All of the things related to those, which is a very large part of galactic civilization is influenced by those.

Your toothbrush example is a hyperbole having to do nothing with that we are discussing.
except for that it comes from element zero which is made by dying stars NOT reapers or mass effect relays. Plus his hyperberbloe is perfect because you are comparing 2 thing that had no influence on each other what so ever.
capthca: mad science, how appropriate.
 

Terminate421

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I went for full Paragon and made Martin Sheen shoot himself, then I went up to the thing and blew up the reapers without second thought.

If it was all a dream, good. That means that Garrus, Tali, Miranda, and I can set up a sweet romantic sit-com.

Also, the choosing to blow up the reapers it says it also takes out other synthetics, that is totally false. My friend brought EDI along instead of Tali and Garrus and nothing happened to her when he blew up the reapers. This means that Geth survived it as well.
 

Akarezik

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You know, I just realized something. It showed TIM for the Control ending, and Anderson for the Destroy ending, but no one for the Merge ending.
Professor M said:
Turtleboy1017 said:
I'm starting to agree with this theory more and more, and just had some thoughts of my own.

I was just thinking, at the point when you start running down the hill, it gives you a marker which says "conduit". I could be wrong but I don't remember the glowing blue beam being called a "conduit" at any point before this, and I was reminded very strongly of the run to the conduit in ME1. Then there was the conversation with TIM, where you slowly convince him that he's wrong and through a series of persuasion options he shoots himself in the head - just like Saren in the first game. Considering the rest of the game was so amazing, I thought it was odd that Bioware was re-hashing a 'final boss' so blatantly (especially as TIM made it clear every other encounter your persuasion options didn't work), but I didn't think much of it at the time. Looking back though, is it Harbinger re-using Shepherds last triumph over an indoctrinated foe to make him think he won?

Also just re-doing the last part, but I swear the citadel is just littered with dead bodies as anyone would expect to find, and the Anderson says "..looks just like your description of the collector base", at which point the tell tale tubes and stuff start to appear on the walls - the power of suggestion affecting Shep? I could be wrong though, I'm tired

EDIT: Actually everything Anderson says to you influences what you see around you. He mentions the chasm, then you come to it, then he says he's found a control panel, then you find a control panel
It was your post about TIM mimicking Saren that made me remember Saren's final monologue: "I am a perfect being, flesh and steel intertwined, the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither." That's when I figured out where the Merge ending came from, that was Saren's misguided goal in ME 1, and we all know how that turned out for him.