Mass Effect 3: It's not the endings, its the final battle (And synthesis)

Madbomber

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btw folks just in case any of you dont know Mack Walters who screwed up the game he overwrote his writing team without any consultation and just ran with it and said thats what were doing so he overwrote 2 games worth of lore which is why there are conflicting logs from the first and second ME to the third.

in the first 2 there were references to a BoL aka Being of Light (either literal or moral wise or metaphysical who knows) that was spose to have been on several planets it was spose to be hints at a greater thing than log entries or descriptions of several planets

then there was the sun effected by dark energy around haestrom (either energy or matter cannot remember)

then with synthesis reaper code being introduced into a human body makes them husks

i also agree with the original poster, i think it would have been kick ass to have had all your friends along side you as you battled down say a main road with thousands of reaper units in it, and have all your friends fight off the swarm to help fight a path to the citadel......shit maybe i should be a writer sounds like i could do better than mack walters....

anyway dont hate bioware hate the jackass that ruined the PLOT of the game, not the game itself. i gotta admit i still love the game despite its glaringly obvious flaws, kind of like loving a dog that guards your house even if it shits the floor and leaves enough drool to start a slip n slide

will be interesting to see if alot of people buy ME4 though

(P.S i didnt have 13 hours to list the other btw not kidding here 79 other problems i have with the plot curse you mack)
 

JellySlimerMan

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Lily Venus said:
or how about the fact that, for being an RPG, the game itself makes automatic responses to dialog based on your Paragon or Renegade ranking?
Unless you're playing Action Mode, the game doesn't make "automatic Paragon or Renegade responses".

...please play the game, more than one, before you decide to start making up lies that anyone who has played the game more than once would know are false.
Apparently, BW took notes from Dragon Age 2, where they did the same thing but at least the 3 types of personalties there are more defined than the binary system of P/R. I dont see how a player, even if they choosed to roleplay or not, or even if they are new to the franchise (remember, Husdon say that ME3 is the best to start playing), will find believable that Shepard will become a 1 dimencional asshole just because there are more points on the Renegade rank, instead of just responding between P or R if the situation calls for it, rather than all the time. You know, a belivable script for a linear path the writers made?

You may say: "They have those modes so everyone could play. To expand the audience" But tell me, if they are only here for the shooty parts, then what is so different or better about the shooty parts of ME3 to the ones of Gears of War?. They are similar if not unpolished to GoW, the difference between the 2 was the setting and the story, but by choosing Action Mode then its clear they dont care about Roleplaying and the story, meaning that they are playing a piss poor version of GoW when they could have played that one instead.

Why buy a Roleplaying game if you are not interested in Roleplaying? why buy meat when you are a vegetarian?? Why pay full price for something that you dont play with its full features?? Its like paying a game with multiplayer and single player but you are only there for the multiplayer. Or buying an entire CD of music of a band you like but only listen one music, there is a reason for why there is a bussiness model around paying for the song you want and not the whole album.

--

It's simple: if you are going to predicate your game on choice and then don't really provide tools that can make the most use of that idea, then people are going to call you on that.

Not all the dialogue and the situations are based completely on your previous choices and even then some of those choices may indeed be choices forced upon the player and therefore aren't really choices at all.

The dislike comes from not only this fact but the fact that the system from DA2 was simplified in ME3. The system was made worse.

And, if you havent noticed, this breaks "The Agreement" of Armando Troisi, where "Choice produce the results the player expects" and "Gives the player the choices they want".

Keep it up with not responding to the other "lies" that i and others have posted about Reapers not being smart enought because the plot says so. You are doing great.
 

ThriKreen

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JellySlimerMan said:
I posted that to prove to that guy that we are not making shit up as he always says (and conveniently he didnt even cared to respond to that comment.) That is it.
A leaked script is really unreliable, you can't use what they were thinking of as planned and thus set in stone. Given how fluid the game dev process is, maybe whomever leaked it caught it in the one day between someone deciding "Hey let's make the prothean the catalyst" and adding it to the plot overview, then in the next day during a story review, the staff goes "Wait, that's kind of stupid, since all the protheans could be dead, let's change that."

As for Lily Venus' retort, I suspect she meant that you lack proof a) the prothean was cut specifically for the DLC hence the story change (as opposed to cut for time and salvaged for DLC), and b) that the ending would have been better with it (debatable, but after reading the leaks, I doubt it would have).

And like I said, later on in the same leaked script, they changed the Catalyst from the prothean to the Citadel. Meaning either the earlier prothean-is-the-Catalyst bit hadn't been updated, or like I surmise, Cerberus itself was making a mistake (intentional story red herring).

JellySlimerMan said:
Without this, ME2 ends up in a contrived mess (if the Suicide Mission wasnt already contrived already). I hear many times that since it was cut, its non canon, but really? we end up with nothing if we dont have this.
See, I'm going to have you to stop right there. You say it's a mess with the ending of ME2 and needed that video to fully get what was going on? I understood what was going the first and only time I've played ME2, and didn't have to look anything up or have it explained to me. I knew what the Collectors were doing, what the purpose of the Human-Reaper was.

I finally got around to playing ME3 last week and even when as far as to remove the EC to see what the complaints were. And while I agree the pre-EC ME3 ending was rather abrupt and much better with the EC, again, I still understood what was going on and I'm satisfied with the ending to the trilogy.

It appears from this and numerous other threads, that some people don't quite catch on to all the various story hints and making the connections for a conclusion, hence the many complaints about plot holes and bad endings. So you end up with erroneous conclusions, leading to even more, and it just snowballs from there. Basically, they are the cause of their own confusion.

Case in point, I recall seeing lots of people asking why did the human Reaper look human, while Sovereign looked like the cuttlefish, and somehow the association one was the actual Reaper and the other was the ship didn't occur to them (nevermind Sovereign was over 2km in length and the human Reaper was maybe 50m tall, and you'd still have to question how integrated they are).

And worst yet, even when explained, they still disbelieve it and would rather the creators themselves flat out told them, which probably won't happen anytime soon.
 

flaviok79

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Saviordd1: I agree with you. The ending of ME2 was an amazing and exiting battle against powerful enemies, with great music(which contrasts with the horrible music in ME3's Earth)and alongside everyone of your compannions. The final battle of ME3 is clearly the downpoint of the series. It is boring, it is dull, it is tiresome. There is no payoff. The starchild was just icing on the cake of turd.

ME3 IS a great game. BUT it is a shame the ending feels so rushed.
 

AD-Stu

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ThriKreen said:
I understood what was going the first and only time I've played ME2, and didn't have to look anything up or have it explained to me. I knew what the Collectors were doing, what the purpose of the Human-Reaper was...

Case in point, I recall seeing lots of people asking why did the human Reaper look human, while Sovereign looked like the cuttlefish, and somehow the association one was the actual Reaper and the other was the ship didn't occur to them (nevermind Sovereign was over 2km in length and the human Reaper was maybe 50m tall, and you'd still have to question how integrated they are).
Out of interest, would you mind telling us your understanding of what the Collectors were doing and what the purpose of the Human Reaper was?

And, out of further interest, have you read or heard the ending Drew Karpyshyn intended for the series he started?

In the context of Karpyshyn's ending everything in ME2 (the Collectors targeting humans specifically, all the stuff about dark energy and human genetics, the Human Reaper) makes sense. The ending would have been even darker, much harder to understand and been an even bigger downer than the one we got, but all that stuff in ME2 made sense and was going somewhere. Without that ending all the complexity gets tossed out and frankly I don't see any real reason for there being a Human Reaper beyond "LOL that'd make for a cool boss fight".

Which is why I'm curious to find out what purpose you think the Human Reaper had, given we didn't get that ending...
 

voltair27

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Honestly, I feel that the game was rough around the edges. The dialogue was stilted, a good portion of the characters seemed out of place but the thing that really got me was the last battle.

Where are all my friends? That was just lame. I'll give that ME3 was pretty decent overall, but it was NOT Game of the Year material.
 

El Danny

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Lily Venus said:
The ending is made so much worse by the realisation that they never intended to have satisfying payoff to your choices
Because of my choices, the krogan have a bright future ahead of them, the quarians and the geth have ended their hostility, the rachni have survived, and countless other people have been saved from death.

But if all those choices don't have a specific impact on the war for and activation of an ancient alien superweapon at the end of the game, then obviously those choices never had any impact.

BioWare shouldn't feel bad for disappointing people like you. You've deliberately adopted a completely illogical mindset disconnected from reality simply so you can have an excuse to complain about the game. They really should not have bothered with people who try their hardest to come up with pathetic reasons to cry about the ending.
THANK YOU!

Been saying this about ME3 since I finished it. They never promised varied endings based on your decisions though out them game, only that the decisions you make will make an impact on how the story plays out, and that's certainly true.
 

gwilym101

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I agree whole heartedly with your points about the final battle. I still maintain that a Deus Ex Machina, lore altering god child is the worst thing to happen to Mass Effect though.

What I would have done, was have no decisions for the finale. What the crucible did was based off of your past actions. My explanation for this would be the characters and politics of the galaxy have been shaped by your actions and interpreted the blueprints differently.

Then I'd use the EMS to reduce the damage the crucible took before being fired. The lower your EMS the more collateral damage it caused, as it itself was damaged. They kind of did that for destroy but not enough.

For destroy I'd have had (possible levels between these):
Lowest: Kill almost all life in the galaxy.
2nd Lowest: Kill all synthetic life in the galaxy.
2nd Highest: Kill only the reapers, but a malfunction kills Shepard.
Highest: Shepard surives and only the reapers are destroyed.

For renegade (control or something else):
Lowest; Control signal interferes with allies ships, and only takes control of some of the reapers (then you have reaper fights that damage the galaxy, possibly only the ones on earth are controlled).
2nd lowest: Allies unaffected, only half the reapers controlled.
2nd Highest: Reapers successfully controlled, but shepard is disintigrated.
Highest: Reapers controlled, repair damage, Shepard survives flies them into suns and gives up control.
 

Kingjackl

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I actually disagree with the topic title on this one. Endings are fine because if you play your cards right you can become God-Emperor of the Universe, final battle is fine because it's challenging, tense and satisfying to get through, and synthesis is fine because you make life better for everyone and essentially trick the Reapers into ceasing hostilities.

You know what the real problem is? Those god-awful dream sequences. They were what the inventory system and planet-scanning of the first two games were to this one: an irredeemable issue that sours the rest of an otherwise enjoyable experience. Badly written, not at all enjoyable to play, and they have a nasty habit of coming off the tail end of really good bits like the genophage mission.
 

CaptainKoala

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mad825 said:
The game sucked, full stop.

-less overall content
-crappy cameos
-No real point of "choice" existing
-Contrived story/plot
-Half-arsed (ripped-off) ending with no conclusion


Sure, there were some good things but those good things don't really stand against the crap.
Let's get one thing straight. The ending was bad, but not because of the lack of choice.

Think about the past ME games and the ending choices. Saving/Killing the council in ME1, Saving/Destroying the Collector base in ME2. All choices, not just the ones made at the end, have never affected the ending in ME games. About the most influence they ever had was the end mission in ME2, and even then you're not directly affecting how the plot is going to turn out. The choices don't (and never have) really directly change the overall story, it changes your journey along the way. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, it's just the way the trilogy is and I'm pointing it out.

Then ME3 comes along, and the ending follows the formula of the past two games, where the choice affects your journey but not the overall plot. And what happened? ONE OF THE BIGGEST SHITSTORMS IN GAMING HISTORY. People were expecting something out of it that was completely uncharacteristic of the trilogy up to that point.

Also, I said this before on this site (just yesterday, actually) but I'll say it again. ME3 had more great moments than either of the first two games. The Quarian/Geth conflict, the Citadel assault, the Thessia mission, Mordin and the genophage cure, even the beginning mission on Earth. To completely write these things off and focus on the ending is doing a huge disservice to how great the game really was.
 

votemarvel

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Lily Venus said:
That surely explains why everything in the third game leads up to the ending - oh wait, Retakers refuse to accept that there was foreshadowing because doing so makes their stance look stupid.
What foreshadowing was there?

We get mentions of the Beings Of Light on a planet's description and Saren wants to merge organics and machine.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm genuinely interested to know what I've missed. As I really can't see anything in Mass Effect 3 that foreshadows the Starchild and his choices.

El Danny said:
THANK YOU!

Been saying this about ME3 since I finished it. They never promised varied endings based on your decisions though out them game, only that the decisions you make will make an impact on how the story plays out, and that's certainly true.
They also promised that we'd get nothing like an A. B or C ending. Yet that is exactly what they delivered.
 

guitarsniper

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Tiny bits of ending appreciation!
The space battle cutscene was epic
Some of the dialog in the base camp area was really good

sometimes maybe we should focus on the positives, or am i just too much of an optimist?
 

GuitArchon

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Eclectic Dreck said:
Capitano Segnaposto said:
Don't care. I still believe it as it makes Shepard's struggle all the more enticing.
Indoctrination theory asserts there is no struggle and you were a Puppet since god knows when.
Well, do remember that Saren was Sovereign's puppet in ME 1 and he still held onto the illusion of maintaining his own free will. His indoctrination was a very gradual process, so it's been established that one who is indoctrinated (or is in the process of becoming it) can still possess some degree of choice while remaining within the Reapers' influence.

And I think the Indoctrination theory holds a lot more water than I initially gave it credit for.
My reasoning?

Remember ME 2's Arrival DLC? (I'd put up spoiler tags, but I think we're a little beyond that in this thread now) In there, Shepard got knocked out for several days in a compound containing a huge-ass Reaper Artifact that had already indoctrinated all of the other inhabitants there. Not only does this provide a very logical point for when Shepard may have started coming under Reaper influence, it also clears up a plot hole that had previously bugged the crap out of me:

If Commander Shepard, the human who helped orchestrate the downfall of Sovereign and delayed the Reapers' return, was knocked unconscious surrounded by indoctrinated Reaper servants, why the hell didn't the Reapers just tell them to kill him/her?

I mean, I get it from a story-telling perspective: It's the same reason why Goldfinger straps James Bond to a table and turns on a sluggish death laser to slowly inch its way towards him-- The hero can't die, otherwise the story's done. HOWEVER, taking into consideration the Indoctrination theory, a new and, in my opinion, stronger story-telling element is introduced: Shepard would prove to be one HELL of an asset to the Reapers if they let him/her live while their claws slowly tighten over his/her mind.

Just my opinion though. Hated the original endings; Extended Cut made them tolerable. Mass Effect's still my favorite video game series of all time.