Mass Effect 3 Petition Raises Funds For Charity

[Mack Muir]

I know there is a debate over it being art and they have a reason to ending it the way they want, and that is correct to a degree. It is easy to see them as artist first, but what we need to remember is that while being an artist ( I am one myself to a degree ) they are also a business, and in this world business come first because bioware, and EA are out to make money. That's it. When you get down to the core of their company. It is to make money through these games.

Yes bioware has a right to end the game the way they want, but they also have to remember that they are a repeat business. If you look at Mass Effect 2. Half of their profit from that game was DLC.

Plus as customers we did buy their product. we bought a product we didn't know how it was going to end, or how how good the game was. Unlike if we were buying a painting, or a sculpture where we can see all of the art. With Mass Effect we go into this without a complete picture of what we are going to get. It would be strange to complain after getting the painting, but on the other hand lets say it would be a custom painting that we have no clue what the final product will be. If we don't like it, then we have a right to return it, or complaint about it, and even ask to fix it.

You conveniently forgot movies, television, books and music in your art comparison. I believe you will find all of these mediums are businesses that rely on repeat customers. I believe you will find that business comes first to all professional artists. That's sort of how they make money.

You will also find all of these mediums I described as having the element of the final customer not knowing 'exactly' what they are going to get as well. If you knew the whole movie, book whatever beforehand you wouldn't buy it. Would it be strange to complain after seeing a movie or reading a book? People do it all the time.

I thought the last Hunger Games book sucked. Do I get to write Suzanne Collins and make her change it? Or is that really a matter of 'how bad is it'? How bad does it have to be before we can have it changed and who decides how bad it is?

I would agree that a custom painting should be sent back for revisions if it is not up to spec; it is a commission job. You hired someone to do a job and you are seeing it is done properly. But seriously, you did not 'commission' Mass Effect any more than I 'commissioned' Star Wars.

You are right and you are wrong at the same time. It does happen on other media. It doesn't happen that much, but it mostly happens when something has large following.

For example. The End of Evangelion is a film to the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion. That anime had a huge following, but sadly had a bad ending. Thanks to fans wanting it changed they released a movie that replaced episode 25, and 26 of the series, and provided an alternate ending.

If we look at books. The Fan's of Sherlock Holmes' didn't like how he died in one of his books, so he was retconned by Arthur Conan Doyle, and this was largely due to the fan's response to Holmes' death.

Those are just two examples. There are others, but as I said your both right and wrong at the same time. Most movies, books, music, or TV shows if something goes wrong, and they don't have a satisfactory ending then people move on.

but on the other hand when you have a work of fiction, or a series( and Mass Effect falls into this ) that you have a large following of people who care about the story, and care about franchise then you do get this kind of thing to happen. I think Sherlock Holmes is a prime example of this happening, and it happened before the time of the internet.

So while most books, movies, and TV shows will not get this response because their fan's might not care enough, or there is not enough fans to care. Other forms of fiction will get this response if they have a big enough following, and if the fan care for the fiction.

 

[Vivi22]

However, demanding the ending to be changed is entitlement. There's no other word for it.

I'm not sure where you get demanding from when the petition acknowledges that Bioware can do as they please and simply asks them to change it because fans feel it's a terrible ending. Entitled? Maybe, but again, recognizing that Bioware can do as they please undermines that assumption a bit. Though to be perfectly honest, and speaking as someone who hasn't bought a Mass Effect game since the original and has no direct stake in this whole debate, I have to ask why people throw words like entitlement around like it's a bad thing when to be perfectly frank, those who have invested $180+ dollars and well over 100 hours into this series have a right to be a little entitled. They paid good money and invested a lot of their free time for an ending that can at best be described as a bit of a slap in the face. Sure Bioware has the right to end it as they see fit, but fans have the right to complain as well, and the right to take their money elsewhere if Bioware can't be bothered to at the very least acknowledge that they dropped the ball big time on this one.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

So in a nutshell you think that Bioware torched the franchise and ran [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TorchTheFranchiseAndRun] to keep the series from shambling along far longer than they originally intended. Interesting.

Obviously I don't actually believe that, I just started rambling on got a bit carried away...

My real theory is that the departure of the original writer halfway through the production of ME3 just threw the story elements into chaos and in the end they gave up.

 

[intheweeds]

I know there is a debate over it being art and they have a reason to ending it the way they want, and that is correct to a degree. It is easy to see them as artist first, but what we need to remember is that while being an artist ( I am one myself to a degree ) they are also a business, and in this world business come first because bioware, and EA are out to make money. That's it. When you get down to the core of their company. It is to make money through these games.

Yes bioware has a right to end the game the way they want, but they also have to remember that they are a repeat business. If you look at Mass Effect 2. Half of their profit from that game was DLC.

Plus as customers we did buy their product. we bought a product we didn't know how it was going to end, or how how good the game was. Unlike if we were buying a painting, or a sculpture where we can see all of the art. With Mass Effect we go into this without a complete picture of what we are going to get. It would be strange to complain after getting the painting, but on the other hand lets say it would be a custom painting that we have no clue what the final product will be. If we don't like it, then we have a right to return it, or complaint about it, and even ask to fix it.

You conveniently forgot movies, television, books and music in your art comparison. I believe you will find all of these mediums are businesses that rely on repeat customers. I believe you will find that business comes first to all professional artists. That's sort of how they make money.

You will also find all of these mediums I described as having the element of the final customer not knowing 'exactly' what they are going to get as well. If you knew the whole movie, book whatever beforehand you wouldn't buy it. Would it be strange to complain after seeing a movie or reading a book? People do it all the time.

I thought the last Hunger Games book sucked. Do I get to write Suzanne Collins and make her change it? Or is that really a matter of 'how bad is it'? How bad does it have to be before we can have it changed and who decides how bad it is?

I would agree that a custom painting should be sent back for revisions if it is not up to spec; it is a commission job. You hired someone to do a job and you are seeing it is done properly. But seriously, you did not 'commission' Mass Effect any more than I 'commissioned' Star Wars.

You are right and you are wrong at the same time. It does happen on other media. It doesn't happen that much, but it mostly happens when something has large following.

For example. The End of Evangelion is a film to the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion. That anime had a huge following, but sadly had a bad ending. Thanks to fans wanting it changed they released a movie that replaced episode 25, and 26 of the series, and provided an alternate ending.

If we look at books. The Fan's of Sherlock Holmes' didn't like how he died in one of his books, so he was retconned by Arthur Conan Doyle, and this was largely due to the fan's response to Holmes' death.

Those are just two examples. There are others, but as I said your both right and wrong at the same time. Most movies, books, music, or TV shows if something goes wrong, and they don't have a satisfactory ending then people move on.

but on the other hand when you have a work of fiction, or a series( and Mass Effect falls into this ) that you have a large following of people who care about the story, and care about franchise then you do get this kind of thing to happen. I think Sherlock Holmes is a prime example of this happening, and it happened before the time of the internet.

So while most books, movies, and TV shows will not get this response because their fan's might not care enough, or there is not enough fans to care. Other forms of fiction will get this response if they have a big enough following, and if the fan care for the fiction.

And let this stand as the very first time anyone has provided a proper argument! You are right this has happened before.

My opinion on it however is unchanged. Asking an artists to change something you don't like about their work - regardless of the reason- is the height of entitlement.

The implications if this were to become a mainstream way of dealing with art you don't like is frankly frightening. There is a reason we let the talented people write the stories and make the art. There is a reason we leave them the hell alone to do it. When you micro manage an artist you end up with shit results. Why? Because the artists ideas are usually much better than our own whether we want to admit it or not.

Ever seen a tattoo that some idiot on the street drew compared to one a tattoo artist rendered? Yes it's your body, yes you are paying him to do it, but you would be MUCH better off just giving him a vague idea and getting out of the way. If we all were collectively capable of creating moving art, we wouldn't need LOTR or Mass Effect or Shakespeare or Monet anything for that matter.

 

[leafs43]

So in a nutshell you think that Bioware torched the franchise and ran [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TorchTheFranchiseAndRun] to keep the series from shambling along far longer than they originally intended. Interesting.

Obviously I don't actually believe that, I just started rambling on got a bit carried away...

My real theory is that the departure of the original writer halfway through the production of ME3 just threw the story elements into chaos and in the end they gave up.

There is currently a growing number of players that look at the ending calmly and logically, tying together the facts and cryptic Bioware messages into a plausible theory.

That theory is of course none of the endings were real. The last sequence of events is actually Shepherd unconscious and the reaper known as Harbinger, from Mass Effect 2 fame, is actually attempting to indoctrinate Shepherd.

Not only is this theory extremely plausible by several key pieces of observable evidence, it would make more sense than a complete retcon of the ending.

So if this ends up being true, it makes people defending the current endings look even more obtuse.

 

[DakRattler]

This was a rather ignorant post I have to say. Play the game and get to the ending.

*SPOILER ALERT*



I honestly am not that upset about Shepard dying. But afterwards there is just nothing... no ceremony to commend his death, no closure on anything, where the Normandy ends up is just stupid, the Mass Effect Relays should've destroyed the Earth anyway. Just a terrible ending all in all.

 

[DakRattler]

Edit: Sorry double post

 

[MisterShine]

Yes, they can. It has happened before, and worked before.

And if Bioware wants to change/expand on their ending, hey, good for them.

The fact that others chose to/caved to people asking for an ending change doesn't alter my opinion that the reaction itself to the endings is anything other than arrogance/entitlement/[insert word here]. I can't help but see it as a lack of respect for an artist's work, and perhaps because I've never seen it for something like "2001: A Space Odyssey" or "American Psycho" or "Serial Experiments Lain" and I feel like my favorite medium is suffering that special disrespect it usually receives by outsiders, but this time it's by people who I thought were on my side.

 

[Andy Chalk]

In short, beat the game, then you'll realize how much of your foot is in your mouth.

You're clearly, perhaps willfully, not getting the point. So I think we're done here.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

There is currently a growing number of players that look at the ending calmly and logically, tying together the facts and cryptic Bioware messages into a plausible theory.

That theory is of course none of the endings were real. The last sequence of events is actually Shepherd unconscious and the reaper known as Harbinger, from Mass Effect 2 fame, is actually attempting to indoctrinate Shepherd.

Not only is this theory extremely plausible by several key pieces of observable evidence, it would make more sense than a complete retcon of the ending.

I do quite like that theory to an extent, I do believe that the ending sequence was a metaphor for indoctrination and the colours and decision were intended to confuse the character and make the ending a huge mindfuck, however it's also quite obvious that they gave up on this idea at some point, all the elements are there with no real execution.

Break the fourth wall well and fans will love you even more, give up on breaking the fourth wall and remove half the story elements that explain the parts that aren't metaphorical and you just have one big clusterfuck that no one can appreciate.

I've already pieced together a lot that Bioware didn't tell you about the ending so that it makes sense in my head and a fair amount of it I don't mind them not explaining as it gives you the chance to think for yourself.

But cutting the Joker scene so that it makes no sense when he's fleeing with the rest of your crew is pretty inexcusable.

 

[leafs43]

Yes, they can. It has happened before, and worked before.

And if Bioware wants to change/expand on their ending, hey, good for them.

The fact that others chose to/caved to people asking for an ending change doesn't alter my opinion that the reaction itself to the endings is anything other than arrogance/entitlement/[insert word here]. I can't help but see it as a lack of respect for an artist's work, and perhaps because I've never seen it for something like "2001: A Space Odyssey" or "American Psycho" or "Serial Experiments Lain" and I feel like my favorite medium is suffering that special disrespect it usually receives by outsiders, but this time it's by people who I thought were on my side.

If an artist wants to sell a cake with poop frosting, that's his choice, but don't advertise it that it's not a poop covered cake.

 

[TaboriHK]

I think your demand for a Mass Effect 3 rewrite is beyond ludicrous,

You admitted that you haven't finished the game, so you have no idea what the ending is. Seems like that would be relevant to how "ludicrous" this demand is.

It's perfectly fair for someone to conceptually find a demand against a creative producer to change his or her creation as ludicrous without seeing said creation. This isn't a question of quality. The author is not saying "there's no way the ending is so bad that this would be called for." He is saying that "the idea of a bunch of people online demanding that something subjective should be changed to meet their personal requirements" is ridiculous. The actual content of what this group is claiming needs change is irrelevant. Who knows, the author might end up hating the ending more than anyone involved with the petition once he gets there, but I doubt it would ever change his stance on this point, and nor should it.

A writer cannot make an objective statement about something he or she knows nothing about. The argument isn't necessarily that the ending is just bad. It's that there is NO ending. Being able to address that viewpoint requires you to actually know what you're talking about.

 

[leafs43]

There is currently a growing number of players that look at the ending calmly and logically, tying together the facts and cryptic Bioware messages into a plausible theory.

That theory is of course none of the endings were real. The last sequence of events is actually Shepherd unconscious and the reaper known as Harbinger, from Mass Effect 2 fame, is actually attempting to indoctrinate Shepherd.

Not only is this theory extremely plausible by several key pieces of observable evidence, it would make more sense than a complete retcon of the ending.

I do quite like that theory to an extent, I do believe that the ending sequence was a metaphor for indoctrination and the colours and decision were intended to confuse the character and make the ending a huge mindfuck, however it's also quite obvious that they gave up on this idea at some point, all the elements are there with no real execution.

Break the fourth wall well and fans will love you even more, give up on breaking the fourth wall and remove half the story elements that explain the parts that aren't metaphorical and you just have one big clusterfuck that no one can appreciate.

I've already pieced together a lot that Bioware didn't tell you about the ending so that it makes sense in my head and a fair amount of it I don't mind them not explaining as it gives you the chance to think for yourself.

But cutting the Joker scene so that it makes no sense when he's fleeing with the rest of your crew is pretty inexcusable.

One of the Bioware team did tweet that your squad mates cannot teleport (hence the whole space magic bit of squaddies ending up on the Normandy).

So just some more food for thought.

 

[leafs43]

In short, beat the game, then you'll realize how much of your foot is in your mouth.

You're clearly, perhaps willfully, not getting the point. So I think we're done here.

Actually it's the lack of objective journalism that seems to go over your head.


You could at least try and understand the point players are making. You make it out like it's some sort over over enlarged sense of entitlement and its anything but.


Again, you have no contextual reference. I was in your camp as well before I finished the game (although I didn't jump to conclusions which you obviously have). So this is a common phenomena. So I almost pity you when you actually finish the game and have to swallow your pride and admit there is serious cause for concern regarding the endings.

 

[Bobic]

Wait, this was an option? Is it too late to save the Star Wars prequels?

That is one joke comment I have, here comes another.

How funny would it be if Bioware caved, created a new ending, and the fans hated that too?

Or.

I bet this was all planned out by Bioware as a way to raise money for charity. Genius!

Thank you, I'm here all week.

 

[Optimystic]

I'm one of the guys who liked the endings (well, the green one anyway) and even I see the merit to this movement. Andy, just beat the game is all I have to say.

it wouldn't be difficult use some stock photos for the characters, bioware knows how to do that, add some music and a little blurb about if they are still screwed or not.

Ba-zynga

 

[Mack Muir]

I know there is a debate over it being art and they have a reason to ending it the way they want, and that is correct to a degree. It is easy to see them as artist first, but what we need to remember is that while being an artist ( I am one myself to a degree ) they are also a business, and in this world business come first because bioware, and EA are out to make money. That's it. When you get down to the core of their company. It is to make money through these games.

Yes bioware has a right to end the game the way they want, but they also have to remember that they are a repeat business. If you look at Mass Effect 2. Half of their profit from that game was DLC.

Plus as customers we did buy their product. we bought a product we didn't know how it was going to end, or how how good the game was. Unlike if we were buying a painting, or a sculpture where we can see all of the art. With Mass Effect we go into this without a complete picture of what we are going to get. It would be strange to complain after getting the painting, but on the other hand lets say it would be a custom painting that we have no clue what the final product will be. If we don't like it, then we have a right to return it, or complaint about it, and even ask to fix it.

You conveniently forgot movies, television, books and music in your art comparison. I believe you will find all of these mediums are businesses that rely on repeat customers. I believe you will find that business comes first to all professional artists. That's sort of how they make money.

You will also find all of these mediums I described as having the element of the final customer not knowing 'exactly' what they are going to get as well. If you knew the whole movie, book whatever beforehand you wouldn't buy it. Would it be strange to complain after seeing a movie or reading a book? People do it all the time.

I thought the last Hunger Games book sucked. Do I get to write Suzanne Collins and make her change it? Or is that really a matter of 'how bad is it'? How bad does it have to be before we can have it changed and who decides how bad it is?

I would agree that a custom painting should be sent back for revisions if it is not up to spec; it is a commission job. You hired someone to do a job and you are seeing it is done properly. But seriously, you did not 'commission' Mass Effect any more than I 'commissioned' Star Wars.

You are right and you are wrong at the same time. It does happen on other media. It doesn't happen that much, but it mostly happens when something has large following.

For example. The End of Evangelion is a film to the anime Neon Genesis Evangelion. That anime had a huge following, but sadly had a bad ending. Thanks to fans wanting it changed they released a movie that replaced episode 25, and 26 of the series, and provided an alternate ending.

If we look at books. The Fan's of Sherlock Holmes' didn't like how he died in one of his books, so he was retconned by Arthur Conan Doyle, and this was largely due to the fan's response to Holmes' death.

Those are just two examples. There are others, but as I said your both right and wrong at the same time. Most movies, books, music, or TV shows if something goes wrong, and they don't have a satisfactory ending then people move on.

but on the other hand when you have a work of fiction, or a series( and Mass Effect falls into this ) that you have a large following of people who care about the story, and care about franchise then you do get this kind of thing to happen. I think Sherlock Holmes is a prime example of this happening, and it happened before the time of the internet.

So while most books, movies, and TV shows will not get this response because their fan's might not care enough, or there is not enough fans to care. Other forms of fiction will get this response if they have a big enough following, and if the fan care for the fiction.

And let this stand as the very first time anyone has provided a proper argument! You are right this has happened before.

My opinion on it however is unchanged. Asking an artists to change something you don't like about their work - regardless of the reason- is the height of entitlement.

The implications if this were to become a mainstream way of dealing with art you don't like is frankly frightening. There is a reason we let the talented people write the stories and make the art. There is a reason we leave them the hell alone to do it. When you micro manage an artist you end up with shit results. Why? Because the artists ideas are usually much better than our own whether we want to admit it or not.

Ever seen a tattoo that some idiot on the street drew compared to one a tattoo artist rendered? Yes it's your body, yes you are paying him to do it, but you would be MUCH better off just giving him a vague idea and getting out of the way. If we all were collectively capable of creating moving art, we wouldn't need LOTR or Mass Effect or Shakespeare or Monet anything for that matter.

One of my biggest problems with this is I am torn between they had an artistic view, and the fact that they have to make money.

I am a part time musician. I know if I wrote a song, and released it that if a bunch of people came to me, complained about it, and asked me to change it I most likely would not do that. I might take what I learned and apply it to my next song so I can do better, but I would not want to change it.

Here where is breaks in two for me..

Lets say some how I release music, and people don't like it, but I am planning on releasing new parts of the song in the same song for money, and I expect this to be a major part of my profit. ( some how I am patching my own song with new notes ) and I am offering the people who bought it a chance download this new part of the same song later on. But if they don't like the song, or to make my example closer to Mass Effect 3, it was an amazing song until the last minute, when I went out of key, and completely changed the tone of the song. What reason would my fans have to buy my expansions of the song is they didn't like it.

That is sadly a hard analogy to follow because other then video games it really doesn't work that way. You can't go and buy a new chapter to put into a book you are reading. You can buy the next book, or a re visioned version of that book, but you can't put content into a book that is already made. Same thing with movies, TV shows, anime, and almost everything.. except video games.

Since the game is digital they can go back and add extra chapters to the game, and they can add them any where they want in the game. That opens up some problems when you can do that. Yes it is a great thing that they could express the ending in the artistic way they made it. ( I don't agree about it, and in fact I really can't accept the ending, but they have a right to do it. ) But at the same time. If they expect fans to buy their single player DLC, and buy multiplayer DLC then they have to keep fans happy. Otherwise the fans will move on, and that sadly happens a lot in video games. Mass Effect is one of those rare cases where the fans care enough for the game series..

Is it right or wrong... We could debate that all day and never get anywhere. What is the truth is the fact that Bioware is a business, they do need to release DLC to make more profit. They have been planning all along to release DLC to make more money. Seeing that the DLC will mostly come from origin which is owned by EA, they will have a lot less over head releasing it compared to releasing the game itself, but they will most likely release about 50 or 60 dollars worth of DLC. It would be easy to say that a good amount of their profits come from the DLC. I hate to say it, but most of the people who would go out to buy this DLC are the hard core fans who care enough about the game to want to change the ending. They are the fans who feel betrayed, and while willing to fight to change the ending, but will move on to other games if they are not satisfied.

So it really comes down to this. You have a very large group of fans not happy with the game, and most of them feel it was ruined by the last 10 minutes. Bioware will have two choices be them right or wrong.. Do they look at this large group of hard core fans, and give them what they want, making the fans happy, or do they take a hit to the over profit of the game and keep the ending that they wrote it?

Honestly with the amount of people who want it to change and are not happy about it ( it's the first wave of people to finish the game, and 80 to 90% of them according to more then one pole across a few different sources didn't like the ending. I feel it will grow as more people finish the game. ) I truly believe that they will release a DLC to fix the ending. I am willing to bet that we will get a DLC like broken Steel for Mass Effect 3, because in the end it is all about money, and when you look the true controllers of Mass Effect, and bioware ( EA ) they will most likely cave in to make more money.

Anyway I talked enough on this for today. I only planned to write a paragraph or two about this article, but that didn't happen. I think what I will do is to agree to disagree because I don't fully disagree with you.

 

[intheweeds]

Anyway I talked enough on this for today. I only planned to write a paragraph or two about this article, but that didn't happen. I think what I will do is to agree to disagree because I don't fully disagree with you.

Fair enough, I feel I don't completely disagree with you either. I hope you have a nice day.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

There's a petition? A petition to re-write the ending of Mass Effect 3?

L O L

People are getting really sad and pitiful these days.
Sad and pitiful people raised some money... so I guess that's good.

Still I'd wish they'd keep some of it to spend on themselves to make their lives less sad

 

[solisrangel]

I usually do not post comments on forums, but I have to agree, there are a lot of unanswered questions and lose ends at the end of Mass Effect 3. I won?t spoil the ending for anybody, but after finishing the game, I was so depress I do not see the point of playing the game again or any upcoming DLC, and this is coming from a guy who played ME2 six time trying to have my entire squat survive the suicide mission, which by the way, after finishing ME3, it all ended up been a waste of time. What is the point of getting attached to fictional characters when they all meet an oblivious ending. I rather move on to play another game where in exchange of surrendering my notion of reality, I won?t get a depressing ending just to remind me that life is cruel both in reality as well as in fiction. I kind of regret playing ME3 just for the ending. Now I am going back to play Slayer on Halo, where I know that if I die I will just re-spawn to keep on fighting.