Mass Effect 3 Petition Raises Funds For Charity

leafs43

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goliath6711 said:
Pandabearparade said:
Andy Chalk said:
I think your demand for a Mass Effect 3 rewrite is beyond ludicrous,
You admitted that you haven't finished the game, so you have no idea what the ending is. Seems like that would be relevant to how "ludicrous" this demand is.
It doesn't matter if he saw the ending yet or not. Just hearing the demand for an author to change the ending of their story because people didn't like it is enough to show how stupid a request it is.
If Lord of the Rings had an ending like Mass Effect 3, just as Frodo was about to through the ring into the lava a magical fairy would appear. The magical fairy would explain to Frodo that it controls Sauron and it created the ring so no other magical ring could be made because some other evil person might create a ring and dominate Middle Earth.

The fairy would continue it's dialog and tell Frodo that destroying the ring would kill all the orcs, but it would also kill all the elves and all the dwarfs, magic would cease to exist and Mount Doom would blow up half the world and the land would break and his former fellowship including Samwise, no matter where they are would end up on the same island somehow. Oh and the fairy casually mentions Frodo would die as well because he received magical healing when he was stabbed by the Wraith's dagger.

But the fairy isn't done. The fairy obviously disdains that solution so the Fairy gives Frodo another option. The fairy tells Frodo he just has to put on the ring and now he magically controls all the orcs and Sauron. Oh but if he puts on the ring Mount Doom would blow up half the world and the land would break apart, but this time rather than the typical red lava, it would be blue magical lava. Oh and his former fellowship including Samwise, no matter where they are would end up on the same island as the first option.

But the fairy has one more option. Frodo can take the magic ring and jump into Mount Doom killing himself. This will cause everything to become half orc and peace and prosperity for all eternity happens. And yes Mount Doom still blows up, but now green lava, and his fellowship, Samwise included, magically appears on the island still.


/the end


How mad do you think Tolkien's fans would have been?
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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leafs43 said:
There is currently a growing number of players that look at the ending calmly and logically, tying together the facts and cryptic Bioware messages into a plausible theory.

That theory is of course none of the endings were real. The last sequence of events is actually Shepherd unconscious and the reaper known as Harbinger, from Mass Effect 2 fame, is actually attempting to indoctrinate Shepherd.

Not only is this theory extremely plausible by several key pieces of observable evidence, it would make more sense than a complete retcon of the ending.

So if this ends up being true, it makes people defending the current endings look even more obtuse.
Now theres a retcon thats worthy of Marvel writers. (Thats not praise)

Give it a couple years, the Mass Effect trilogy will suddenly become the Mass Effect tetralogy and the 4th game will bear only a passing resemblances to the franchise up till that point.

In case youre about to start flaming within the guidelines, i was referring to what happened with Command and Conquer.

Basically, Bioware seems to be at what i refer to as the Third Stage of EA Assimilation. I hope it doesnt reach my Stage Four, because you could also call that the death stage.
 

martyrdrebel27

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Andy Chalk said:
you know what Andy? finish the game, experience ANY OF THE THREE endings available, remember the time you've invested in this world and these characters, read some of the threads outlining the VERY OBVIOUS plot holes that these endings present and THEN tell us we're ridiculous.

I hardly find your opinion on something you haven't experienced yet valid to any degree.

BTW escapist, Captcha was bad enough, but this new ADVERTISING captcha thing? seriously? poor form.
 

leafs43

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gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
There is currently a growing number of players that look at the ending calmly and logically, tying together the facts and cryptic Bioware messages into a plausible theory.

That theory is of course none of the endings were real. The last sequence of events is actually Shepherd unconscious and the reaper known as Harbinger, from Mass Effect 2 fame, is actually attempting to indoctrinate Shepherd.

Not only is this theory extremely plausible by several key pieces of observable evidence, it would make more sense than a complete retcon of the ending.

So if this ends up being true, it makes people defending the current endings look even more obtuse.
Now theres a retcon thats worthy of Marvel writers. (Thats not praise)

Give it a couple years, the Mass Effect trilogy will suddenly become the Mass Effect tetralogy and the 4th game will bear only a passing resemblances to the franchise up till that point.

In case youre about to start flaming within the guidelines, i was referring to what happened with Command and Conquer.

Basically, Bioware seems to be at what i refer to as the Third Stage of EA Assimilation. I hope it doesnt reach my Stage Four, because you could also call that the death stage.

Not really a retcon because it builds off of what is already in the game rather than changing the game at all.

There is serious evidence that this is what Bioware is actually trying to do. Too many details to post here, but you might want to check the Bioware forums and take a look for yourself, assuming you have played the game and understand what they are talking about.
 

martyrdrebel27

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goliath6711 said:
Pandabearparade said:
Andy Chalk said:
I think your demand for a Mass Effect 3 rewrite is beyond ludicrous,
You admitted that you haven't finished the game, so you have no idea what the ending is. Seems like that would be relevant to how "ludicrous" this demand is.
It doesn't matter if he saw the ending yet or not. Just hearing the demand for an author to change the ending of their story because people didn't like it is enough to show how stupid a request it is.
to be fair, i think i remember reading that the original writer for Mass Effect is no longer with the project. So when another person picks up those reins and RUINS the story someone else created, i think it's fair for the consumer to say, "hey you with the face! quit ruining writer #1's shit with your idiocy and get with the program!"

i personally think that the "New Ending DLC" should be written by the original writer, give him the chance to salvage what's left of the beautiful world he created.

this all, of course, contingent on the correct remembering that the writer is different. if it IS the original writer, then I'm sorry for your stroke or otherwise tragic head injury that made you do this to your art.
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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leafs43 said:
gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
There is currently a growing number of players that look at the ending calmly and logically, tying together the facts and cryptic Bioware messages into a plausible theory.

That theory is of course none of the endings were real. The last sequence of events is actually Shepherd unconscious and the reaper known as Harbinger, from Mass Effect 2 fame, is actually attempting to indoctrinate Shepherd.

Not only is this theory extremely plausible by several key pieces of observable evidence, it would make more sense than a complete retcon of the ending.

So if this ends up being true, it makes people defending the current endings look even more obtuse.
Now theres a retcon thats worthy of Marvel writers. (Thats not praise)

Give it a couple years, the Mass Effect trilogy will suddenly become the Mass Effect tetralogy and the 4th game will bear only a passing resemblances to the franchise up till that point.

In case youre about to start flaming within the guidelines, i was referring to what happened with Command and Conquer.

Basically, Bioware seems to be at what i refer to as the Third Stage of EA Assimilation. I hope it doesnt reach my Stage Four, because you could also call that the death stage.

Not really a retcon because it builds off of what is already in the game rather than changing the game at all.

There is serious evidence that this is what Bioware is actually trying to do. Too many details to post here, but you might want to check the Bioware forums and take a look for yourself, assuming you have played the game and understand what they are talking about.
Ive seen enough of the game to know Shep spends a fair deal of time picking through the bowels of at least one Reaper and that he must resist indoctrination.

But i just doubt that you really know what a retcon [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Retcon] is. Its basically writers removing established story using a handwave [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HandWave] in series.

If you need an example, just check its tvtropes page. Its got all of them.

In short, what the fans are proposing is a retcon to fix what they see as the broken story. By saying that while it seemed that Shep resisted the indoctrination for however long, he was sucked into a dream world where the Reapers made him dream that he won the victory he worked so hard for.

Basically, Retcon by Dream Land.

Also i just find it sheer misfortune that this really can be used to pave the way for a Mass Effect 4.
 

leafs43

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gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
There is currently a growing number of players that look at the ending calmly and logically, tying together the facts and cryptic Bioware messages into a plausible theory.

That theory is of course none of the endings were real. The last sequence of events is actually Shepherd unconscious and the reaper known as Harbinger, from Mass Effect 2 fame, is actually attempting to indoctrinate Shepherd.

Not only is this theory extremely plausible by several key pieces of observable evidence, it would make more sense than a complete retcon of the ending.

So if this ends up being true, it makes people defending the current endings look even more obtuse.
Now theres a retcon thats worthy of Marvel writers. (Thats not praise)

Give it a couple years, the Mass Effect trilogy will suddenly become the Mass Effect tetralogy and the 4th game will bear only a passing resemblances to the franchise up till that point.

In case youre about to start flaming within the guidelines, i was referring to what happened with Command and Conquer.

Basically, Bioware seems to be at what i refer to as the Third Stage of EA Assimilation. I hope it doesnt reach my Stage Four, because you could also call that the death stage.

Not really a retcon because it builds off of what is already in the game rather than changing the game at all.

There is serious evidence that this is what Bioware is actually trying to do. Too many details to post here, but you might want to check the Bioware forums and take a look for yourself, assuming you have played the game and understand what they are talking about.
Ive seen enough of the game to know Shep spends a fair deal of time picking through the bowels of at least one Reaper and that he must resist indoctrination.

But i just doubt that you really know what a retcon [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Retcon] is. Its basically writers removing established story using a handwave [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HandWave] in series.

If you need an example, just check its tvtropes page. Its got all of them.

In short, what the fans are proposing is a retcon to fix what they see as the broken story. By saying that while it seemed that Shep resisted the indoctrination for however long, he was sucked into a dream world where the Reapers made him dream that he won the victory he worked so hard for.

Basically, Retcon by Dream Land.

Also i just find it sheer misfortune that this really can be used to pave the way for a Mass Effect 4.



The endings we got if were true endings were a hand wave.

But the indoctrination theory actually is not a hand wave as one of the endings fully supports it given you unlocked the secret ending.

There are reasons why its not but like I said, you would have to played the game all the way through to understand the evidence, because much of the evidence comes in the last sequence of events. And when you realize this evidence, you go back and look at the game itself at certain events, it becomes even clearer.
 

martyrdrebel27

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okay, i've been reading some of the bioware forums and theories on the endings, and the story itself, and i gotta say, there is some credibility to the idea that the endings aren't actually the final endings. here's a link

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/Was-the-ending-a-hallucination-9727423-1.html

here are some interesting highlights involving "Jason" (godchild)

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

now, that whole original scene with the kid that hides and then disappears, refusing the help of the famous Shepard, who, if anyone COULD help, it would be him... the kid says "No one can help me.." it makes me wonder if the child isn't shepard's mind's representation of the reapers, as per his indoctrination. and if the child is a hallucination from being indoctrinated, maybe his response is kind of a candid moment with a reaper, actually expressing fear that it can't be saved, that shepard WILL kill them, and it's scared.

another thing i thought of was the fact that someone said the definition of "Crucible" was a test. so what if a lot of this was all a hallucination, but the part about the reapers destroying life for its salvation was true. maybe they made shepard dream a whole reality, to TEST if he could unite all of civilization and end the cycle of war, thereby negating the need for their destruction. the galactic cooperation that would require building the crucible IS the test to determine if life had reached a point of peaceful coexistance.

just some thoughts.
 

leafs43

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SirBryghtside said:
First, welcome to the Escapist, hope you enjoy your stay (but keep out of the basement) and second... I've seen the LotR argument come up on a different forum, and I disagree with it at its most fundamental level. In Rings, you're pretty much told from the get go that when that hobbit lobs the ring into the fire, it's game over. In ME3, you're NEVER told what the Crucible does past that it might maybe possibly beat the Reapers in a way we haven't yet even started to figure out yet.

Personally, I liked the ending, one of my favourites of any game ever, even without all the fan explanation. And while I can understand why people don't like it, and what the problems are... I still can't quite understand why people are hating it this much.

The Lord of the Rings analogy fits only to show how ridiculous the ending is.

As far as you liking the ending, I'm jealous. It's just unfortunate that I can't stand bad writing. Just like finding a hair in your soup ruins your meal.
 

leafs43

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martyrdrebel27 said:
okay, i've been reading some of the bioware forums and theories on the endings, and the story itself, and i gotta say, there is some credibility to the idea that the endings aren't actually the final endings. here's a link

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/Was-the-ending-a-hallucination-9727423-1.html

here are some interesting highlights involving "Jason" (godchild)

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

now, that whole original scene with the kid that hides and then disappears, refusing the help of the famous Shepard, who, if anyone COULD help, it would be him... the kid says "No one can help me.." it makes me wonder if the child isn't shepard's mind's representation of the reapers, as per his indoctrination. and if the child is a hallucination from being indoctrinated, maybe his response is kind of a candid moment with a reaper, actually expressing fear that it can't be saved, that shepard WILL kill them, and it's scared.

another thing i thought of was the fact that someone said the definition of "Crucible" was a test. so what if a lot of this was all a hallucination, but the part about the reapers destroying life for its salvation was true. maybe they made shepard dream a whole reality, to TEST if he could unite all of civilization and end the cycle of war, thereby negating the need for their destruction. the galactic cooperation that would require building the crucible IS the test to determine if life had reached a point of peaceful coexistance.

just some thoughts.

Biggest piece of evidence is that if you choose 1 option, the deus ex machina figure tells you what will happen to you personally and upon choosing it and done enough to unlock the secret ending, the opposite of what he says is true.


I could divulge more details and be more specific, but I don't want to unleash any more spoilers than I already have.
 

gigastar

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leafs43 said:
As far as you liking the ending, I'm jealous. It's just unfortunate that I can't stand bad writing. Just like finding a hair in your soup ruins your meal.
Thats one particular part i wish to ask about, you enjoyed the 30 or so hours you spent introducing Reapers and thier servants to the glorious heel of your boot, so why are you especially up in arms over 7 minuites of video that basically confirms another sequel?
 

leafs43

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gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
As far as you liking the ending, I'm jealous. It's just unfortunate that I can't stand bad writing. Just like finding a hair in your soup ruins your meal.
Thats one particular part i wish to ask about, you enjoyed the 30 or so hours you spent introducing Reapers and thier servants to the glorious heel of your boot, so why are you especially up in arms over 7 minuites of video that basically confirms another sequel?
Doubt its a sequel.


It's probably more along the lines of ending dlc, which many could consider an unethical business practice. But me personally I don't really care, I just want the conclusion promised to me.
 

gigastar

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leafs43 said:
gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
As far as you liking the ending, I'm jealous. It's just unfortunate that I can't stand bad writing. Just like finding a hair in your soup ruins your meal.
Thats one particular part i wish to ask about, you enjoyed the 30 or so hours you spent introducing Reapers and thier servants to the glorious heel of your boot, so why are you especially up in arms over 7 minuites of video that basically confirms another sequel?
Doubt its a sequel.


It's probably more along the lines of ending dlc, which many could consider an unethical business practice. But me personally I don't really care, I just want the conclusion promised to me.
Considering what the OP article is actually about, i would not be surprised in the slightest to see an ending DLC to only then watch as ME fans start backpedalling from upending thier wallets for this ending to the Entitlement Argument.

Which sort of brings me full circle to the Nerf Now comic i posted way earlier.

gigastar said:
 

leafs43

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gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
As far as you liking the ending, I'm jealous. It's just unfortunate that I can't stand bad writing. Just like finding a hair in your soup ruins your meal.
Thats one particular part i wish to ask about, you enjoyed the 30 or so hours you spent introducing Reapers and thier servants to the glorious heel of your boot, so why are you especially up in arms over 7 minuites of video that basically confirms another sequel?
Doubt its a sequel.


It's probably more along the lines of ending dlc, which many could consider an unethical business practice. But me personally I don't really care, I just want the conclusion promised to me.
Considering what the OP article is actually about, i would not be surprised in the slightest to see an ending DLC to only then watch as ME fans start backpedalling from upending thier wallets for this ending to the Entitlement Argument.

Which sort of brings me full circle to the Nerf Now comic i posted way earlier.

It may or may not cost any money. Mass Effect has a history of free DLC, like one of the ME1 DLCs was free, the firewalker pack, Zaeed (assuming you had a cerberus network account which was the original packaging to dissuade people from buying used copies).



Honestly I think its shady as hell to charge for ending dlc, and Bioware might agree. But if they do end up charging I'll just never make a day 1 purchase as will many other customers, which Bioware is probably weighing in on with EA right now.


In the end though, the customer is always right. The endings in their current form cannot stay. If they do Bioware, and by extension EA, will lose money. Both by depressed dlc sales, because dlc is pointless with the endings as is, and future games.
 

gigastar

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leafs43 said:
gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
gigastar said:
leafs43 said:
As far as you liking the ending, I'm jealous. It's just unfortunate that I can't stand bad writing. Just like finding a hair in your soup ruins your meal.
Thats one particular part i wish to ask about, you enjoyed the 30 or so hours you spent introducing Reapers and thier servants to the glorious heel of your boot, so why are you especially up in arms over 7 minuites of video that basically confirms another sequel?
Doubt its a sequel.


It's probably more along the lines of ending dlc, which many could consider an unethical business practice. But me personally I don't really care, I just want the conclusion promised to me.
Considering what the OP article is actually about, i would not be surprised in the slightest to see an ending DLC to only then watch as ME fans start backpedalling from upending thier wallets for this ending to the Entitlement Argument.

Which sort of brings me full circle to the Nerf Now comic i posted way earlier.

It may or may not cost any money. Mass Effect has a history of free DLC, like one of the ME1 DLCs was free, the firewalker pack, Zaeed (assuming you had a cerberus network account which was the original packaging to dissuade people from buying used copies).

Honestly I think its shady as hell to charge for ending dlc, and Bioware might agree. But if they do end up charging I'll just never make a day 1 purchase as will many other customers, which Bioware is probably weighing in on with EA right now.

In the end though, the customer is always right. The endings in their current form cannot stay. If they do Bioware, and by extension EA, will lose money. Both by depressed dlc sales, because dlc is pointless with the endings as is, and future games.
I still thinks its a story of whimsy that a game published by Microsoft had free DLC for it. It just does not happen.

But i see this senario ending in the following ways:

1) Mass Effect 4, coming in 2014!

2) 'True ending' DLC.
-2a) As pay for.
-2b) As free.

3) EA has Bioware wash its hands of the situation and it moves on to something else entirely.

4) Ending is patched out.
 

goliath6711

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martyrdrebel27 said:
goliath6711 said:
Pandabearparade said:
Andy Chalk said:
I think your demand for a Mass Effect 3 rewrite is beyond ludicrous,
You admitted that you haven't finished the game, so you have no idea what the ending is. Seems like that would be relevant to how "ludicrous" this demand is.
It doesn't matter if he saw the ending yet or not. Just hearing the demand for an author to change the ending of their story because people didn't like it is enough to show how stupid a request it is.
to be fair, i think i remember reading that the original writer for Mass Effect is no longer with the project. So when another person picks up those reins and RUINS the story someone else created, i think it's fair for the consumer to say, "hey you with the face! quit ruining writer #1's shit with your idiocy and get with the program!"

i personally think that the "New Ending DLC" should be written by the original writer, give him the chance to salvage what's left of the beautiful world he created.

this all, of course, contingent on the correct remembering that the writer is different. if it IS the original writer, then I'm sorry for your stroke or otherwise tragic head injury that made you do this to your art.
So now we're trying to rationalize this away by saying we're not dealing with the original author?

Well guess what? It STILL doesn't matter.

You're still telling this author to change the ending to their story that they have already written. You don't demand a book have its ending rewriten after it's been released to the public. And while movies like "I Am Legend" have special editions with aternate endings, they aren't replacing the original versions of the movies with them like what people want done here.

Now I see the "Broken Steel" DLC from Fallout 3 as the biggest mistake Bethesda ever made because it set this precident. It didn't matter how well written or how well intergrated into the main story it was, it's sole purpose was to pander to everyone that hated Fallout 3's endings. This wasn't even a pseudo sequel like what "Awakenings" was to Dragon Age: Origins.

I'm telling you right now if there's going to be any type of DLC that alters the endings in any way, I'm not getting it. I refuse to give these spoiled children the satisfaction that their high profile temper tantrums actually led to something. Shepard's story is over. And I don't care if you all like how it ends or hate it, but you all are going to have to accept it.
 

Knight Templar

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You will change your tune once you reach the ending. You may not come to agree with these people, but you will not find it so laughable.
I think this is a very good way to handle it. They are showing they are willing to pay to get this done, that they are not just stamping their feet and demanding it be redone, but they are not willing to pay Bioware to fix their mistake.
This is the best way to handle the outrage I have seen.
 

Emiscary

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Seriously, why is a not small percentage of the gaming population treating EA like a bullied child being teased by his peers? We're not spoiled brats in our tweens pestering George Lucas to write a version of Star Wars wherein Leia and Lando get their jungle fever on, we're grown ass men and women demanding a god damn company deliver us the product they promised us.

*Addendum: and if they don't they stand to have most of those men/women stop giving them money. Like, permanently.
 

leafs43

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And just because this thread is so serious, it could use some brightening up.





(you will not understand the tweet if you haven't finished the game, but its genius)