Mass Effect 3 Petition Raises Funds For Charity

PunkRex

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Wharrgarble said:
You know what I'm seeing a lot of lately?

"I haven't finished the game yet, but..."

"I'm not a fan of Mass Effect, but..."

"I only ever played five minutes of the original game, but..."

Why does anyone think they have a reason to speak out about something that they haven't even experienced for themselves? I get that everyone has an opinion, but come on... You're kinda writing off your own credibility here. The endings were bad. Not because of the reasons people give to quickly dismiss those who complain, e.g. "You're just mad Shepard dies", "What, you expected unicorns and rainbows?" etc...

The fact is the endings are bad because they're full of plot-holes and are altogether nonsensical. If you got through the game and like them, that's fine. But can we at least appreciate that people are upset enough to try and DO something about it, versus simply pissing into the wind?

I rarely see arguments between developers and fans go anywhere worthwhile. This "Child's Play" donation drive at the very least is bringing a little bit of good into a bad situation.
Although I don't agree with peoples bitching about this article, what you said made alot of sense. I'm still not sure if I agree with people who demand a retake from Bioware, after all they spent the money/ wrote the story/ etc, wanting one is a different case entirely. This may get Bioware to recoincider some things... maybe.

All I know for sure is I REALLY need to finish this bloody game.
 

toapat

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i stopped believing in Bioware after beating the first Dragon Age game, and realized that i has just played a pair of JRPGs from a canadian company. knowing that ME2 then threw out every problem which they could get their hands on from the first game, i realized that Bioware are a bunch of chump writers with a bit of programming knowledge
 

Silvianoshei

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I actually don't care about the mass effect endings or whatever the hell this controversy is. I played it through and liked most of it.

What I am upset about is the failure of the editorial process. This is an OP ED, not an article. If I want to hear the opinion of someone who hasn't played the game he's talking about, I'll go watch Fox News. Just because you're on the internet, doesn't mean you can relax journalistic standards.
 

Uszi

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gigastar said:
Andy Chalk said:
Outraged gamers are throwing some serious money at the Retake Mass Effect - Child's Play donation drive, a way to raise funds for charity while calling for a "better" ending to Mass Effect 3.
This is just a warning for you, expect flames from the Bioware forums.

They arent pleased.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/Idiot-Contributor-to-Escapist-Magazine-Sneers-at-RetakeMassEffect-campaign-9933761-1.html
Yeah, none of the replies to that thread could be described as flaming. The replies here have been way worse.
 

Uszi

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Andy Chalk said:
On a more serious note, let me clarify again for those who still don't get it that it's not about how bad the ending is but the inherent silliness of demanding a do-over because you didn't like what you got. It's the internet equivalent of planting a big, sloppy kiss on a famous painting. What relevance to that is there in whether or not I've finished the game?

(Rhetorical question. Please don't feel obliged to answer.)
Please don't feel obliged to post more rhetorical questions, then.

There is a pattern, Andy. A pattern of people saying, "This game is great and ya'll just haters."

Then those people finish the game. And they fall. And they are reborn as DLC petitioning zombies on the Bioware Social Network.

It happened to me, and it can happen to you. I promise, the ending is that bad.
 

Uszi

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In regards to the whole controversy, I don't really buy the "meddling with art," argument here.

We're talking about commercial art first of all, that is already planning to release paid DLC that will add content to the game, second of all. And, finally, this particular piece of art is 99% perfect, but it features a crude drawing of penis in the bottom corner.

The analogy to a painting fails because a painting is made and then it's finished. The game is going to be added to repeatedly in the form of paid DLC.

So if the artist has told you he's going to charge you to update your copy of his painting a couple of times this year, why not ask him to cover up that penis in the bottom corner?

Back to Mass Effect, what's wrong with people saying, "Hey, make one of those DLC's a new ending!"
 

purifico

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McNinja said:
Andy Chalk said:
Mass Effect 3 Petition Raises Funds For Charity


Outraged gamers are throwing some serious money at the Retake Mass Effect - Child's Play donation drive, a way to raise funds for charity while calling for a "better" ending to Mass Effect 3.

Let me be clear right from the get-go that I've just started playing Mass Effect 3, so I have no idea how it ends. But the howls of outrage are impossible to miss; for whatever reason, an awful lot of gamers seem mighty unhappy about the way the trilogy wraps up. For the most part it's just forum noise, but one fan decided to actually do something about it by launching Retake Mass Effect - Child's Play [http://retakemasseffect.chipin.com/retake-mass-effect-childs-play], a combination petition/donation drive which is equal parts silly and solid.

The silly side of the coin is what first leaps out at you: a "respectful request" for a better ending to Mass Effect 3. The petition acknowledges that "it is the right of the writers and developers of the Mass Effect series to end that series however they see fit," but then immediately criticizes them for not ending the series as the angry gamers see fit. It calls for a better explanation of events, "especially with regard to the planets, races, and companions detailed throughout the series," and "a heroic ending which provides a better sense of accomplishment."

"To this end, we donate to the 'Retake Mass Effect 3' Child's Play Charity drive in lieu of our signature to this petition, in order to establish our sincerity, our love for these games, and for the Mass Effect universe," the petition concludes. "We thank you for your consideration."

And that brings us to the solid. Roughly $33,000 has been raised for Child's Play so far, which is a hell of a pile of money for a very worthy cause. With the donation drive set to continue until April 11, it seems likely that pile will get a whole lot bigger before all this nonsense is over.

This puts me in a bit of a tricky spot. I want to point and laugh at the petition, but I also want to congratulate everyone involved for doing such a wonderful thing by literally putting their money where their mouths are. What am I supposed to do here? Am I really going to have to throw a thumbs-up at something so patently ridiculous?

I suppose I am. So congratulations and thank you to everyone who contributed [and contributes] to the cause. I think your demand for a Mass Effect 3 rewrite is beyond ludicrous, but your willingness to get behind it with something worthwhile is very admirable. More information about the Retake Mass Effect - Child's Play donation drive can be found on BioWare Social Network [https://www.facebook.com/DemandABetterEndingToMassEffect3#%15/DemandABetterEndingToMassEffect3].


Permalink
TO quote someone who left a Facebook post: "You claim that it is beyond ridiculous and yet freely admit you have no clue what people are talking about and criticising because you haven't finished the game?

And yet you think you somehow have the right to laugh and make snide comments about the subject?

The subject as said you know nothing about?

Really?

Finish the game, then give us your honest opinion on everything.
If you STILL think the drive to change the ending at that point is "beyond ridiculous" then we will at least have some respect for you while we disagree.

Until then you really should have just stuck to the facts in reporting this instead of putting in your clueless opinion."
Relax, man. As if you've expected anything else? I am yet to see a single editorial or an article from a game journalist that says anything bad about Mass Effect 3. No, they all sing praise to the game and make snide remarks about those 95% of players who found the ending 'lacking' to put it lightly, and actually have balls to do something to make the developer hear their opinion. Gaming sites and blogs are full of articles like "Mass Effect Fans are Crazy" and "Why Mass Effect 3 Endings Do not Suck", or "Why having a shite ending to a good series is OK". I wonder if the journalists are playing some alternative version of Mass Effect 3 where ending does not suck, and we ended up with Mass Effect 3 Bizarro Edition.
 

irishda

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Let it go Mass Effect fans. You wanna keep Bioware from pulling shit like this? From giving you crappy endings in order to pave the way for massive DLC sales later (if that's their plan)? Or, if this is the real ending, do you want them to see your disapproval? Bring your game back. Don't buy DLC with the hope that'll make the game better. Just let the franchise die.

Everyone's heard the arguments.
"We're emotionally invested in these interactive characters and they deserve better."
"They promised us our actions would matter and they didn't feel like it."
"We paid money, so we deserve the right to voice our opinion and demand they change the game. The customer is always right."

But think about it. First of all, how many times have developers said "Your decisions will matter" and how many times has there ever been more comprehensive endings beyond just good/neutral/bad with different characters surrounding you depending on who lived and who died?

The world never owes anyone anything for any reason. If you feel the ending is tarnished, lackluster, or ruins your experience in general so much then send it back. But what disgusts so many people is to look at a crowd that's demanding "make me happy" when the rest of us figured out that somethings won't always make you happy and you just have to accept that. That's why a lot of reviewers aren't buying into the whole "we need a new ending" crowd because they've dealt with enough video games to be able to admit that sometimes good games deliver bad endings. And when that happens they go, "Well that's a point against it" and they move on.

This game is forever "tarnished" by the endings because this is the product that Bioware released and made you pay money for. Imagine if they did rewrite totally new endings and sent you the fans gift-wrapped DLC with heartfelt apologies. It wouldn't change the fact that the game had a shitty ending to begin with, and that you paid 60 dollars to find that out. And I guarantee the writers' hearts DEFINITELY wouldn't be in the new endings, which just means that the new endings would probably come off as even worse. No matter what happens, you're not gonna get the Mass Effect 3 experience you wanted.

TL;DR: Find another franchise to love. This one broke your hearts, so do what the rest of us do when something lets you down: get your money back and find something that's deserving of your attention.
 

Karathos

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Aaaaaaaaaaaaand there goes one notch of respect for the Escapist's gaming news reporting once again. At least Gamefront writers had the brain capacity to find out what the goddamn issue is about before trying to maximize their traffic by commenting on the subject.


News, in this case gaming news, are supposed to inform people. If the newswriter himself is un- or misinformed, how valuable do you think his articles are to people? If your answer is "not very" - you might just be right.

I suggest people read this ACTUALLY INFORMATIVE ARTICLE on the subject:

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/
 

anon252

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MisterShine said:
Wharrgarble said:
But can we at least appreciate that people are upset enough to try and DO something about it...?
...no. No I can't.

What kind of ridiculous mindset is that?

"This story didn't go the way I wanted it to go, I'm going to try and get it changed!"

When the hell has that ever happened in any other artistic medium? When? There are hundreds of books, movies, tv shows, anime, blah blah that all have undefined or bleak endings, and are lauded as some of the best those mediums have to offer. It is ludicrous and childish that video games seems to be an exception to that.

Maybe you didn't like the endings or felt they weren't complete or illogical or blah blah blah, you want to criticize them, go right ahead. In fact please do. Write a giant doctoral thesis on why you think the endings are objectively shit, but do not have the sheer hubris to think that you get to change another person's work of art.

Alright. That's all I got.

edit: actually...

Wharrgarble said:
This "Child's Play" donation drive at the very least is bringing a little bit of good into a bad situation.
I'll happily agree on that.
Except you're wrong. This has happened before, successfully, in other mediums. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle brought Sherlock Holmes back after having killed him off because of fan out cry.

"The Adventure of the Final Problem was published in December of 1893 in The Strand magazine. People were so upset that more than twenty thousand of them cancelled their subscription to The Strand magazine. " He was then brought back in 1901.

This also happened with Firefly.

Fact of the matter is, they're a business. The customer is always right, because if they're told no, then the customer will stop coming back. And when nearly 90% of the customers are saying something's wrong. You need to fix it or be ready to for sales to fall dramatically. They did not deliver on what they promised and if they do plan on adding a DLC "true ending", having planned on doing so from the start at least, then they sold us an incomplete game and that's just ethically wrong. Simply put, Bioware f#cked up big time.
 

XandNobody

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As I had said in the old thread by Zetsubou-Sama.

"I didn't like the endings, I'll go ahead and put that out there before I type anything else.

As such, I like this little charity movement. Do I think it will accomplish anything to 'fix' the endings? No. Not at all. But I do think it is a much better move than those petitions out there that call for everything up to a bloody lynch mob to show up at Bioware/EA's door and demand satisfaction.

You see, not only is this done in better spirits, but even though neither method will do anything to change the Mass Effect ending, at least some good will actually come from this one.

Also, I am one who has the opinion that the motivation behind the donations for this, don't matter a bit so long as the kids are helped. There may be an ulterior motive, but for one it isn't going to actually happen (especially not because of this donation drive), and for two I don't really care so long as Child's Play is getting money out of it."
 

YodaUnleashed

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If it takes an apparent unsatisfying video game ending and the call to have it changed for many people to donate money to charity then that's a sad state of affairs right there, but nonetheless a welcome sad state of affiars for all those who will benefit from many people's self-entitlement and the sheer hubris of a collective mindset who beleive they are right in petitioning the creative authors of this artistic work to change their vision.
 

Varrdy

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I have to say that I am getting more than a little annoyed with the people who are decrying us, The Unsatisfied, as whiny, entitled shits who should just shut up and go away.

Using the argument that this is someone else's work and we have no right to demand we change it is somewhat redundant. I say this because I am an artist (well, I draw stuff and some of it I was even paid for) and quite frankly I cannot agree.

When I am commissioned, I may be given a little artistic licence but in esscence, I have to come up with something the customer wants and likes. If they are not satisfied, they have a right to tell / ask me that I sort it out. Now if the picture is finished (I use traditional methods rather than a Wacom) there is little I can do about it other than start over but the medium of the videogame is different. It CAN be changed and it I can't see why, when the endings were so unfulfilling and confusing then they should not be changed.

I've also written a few stories for people and you know what? Once or twice they read it and said: "Well actually...can you change this bit as I didn't think it fits with my character" or something like that. You know what? I did and everyone was happy. More people read the story and it got me some more work and the customer got a story with an ending that satisfied. Wether or not it was what he was expecting is not relevant - what IS relevant is that it made sense, tied things up and didn't end with an epilogue that basically amounted to saying "Oh well, if you didn't like it, there are more chapters coming that you can buy!"

At this point you may ask, what the fuck are you on about, mate? Fair point - I will tell you.

The parallel between the story I wrote and the whole Mass Effect trilogy runs thus. Both contained characters that someone put a lot of time and effort into creating. They were more than just cartoon lions that walked upright and smoked, they had been honed and shaped by decisions, roleplays, character progression and so on in a million and one ways. Sometimes these defining moments were small and seemingly unimportant. Other times they may have been something utterly epic.

Sound familiar?

When we first started Mass Effect 1, we were asked to provide a very basic framework for the Shepherd character we would then go on to shape as we saw fit. The very esscence of the trilogy, and the reasons for repeat playthroughs, was that we were not just reading a pre-set story, we were choosing it's path and watching the consequences of our actions and decisions unfold. It was always put to us that it was down to us, the players, to effectively write our own version of the Legend of Commander Shepherd.

Sure we had to progress towards the end via a certain set of waypoints for the obvious reasons but there were umpteen-billion variables between the various waypoints that resulted in some waypoints being locked out, others being opened and a whole slew of outcomes in between.

We were constantly told that our decisions would make a difference; that when the dust settled, what we had done and said would have determined the state of the galaxy once it was all over. To that end, a lot of us spent a good deal of time making sure that we got it right because we didn't want to be responsible for cocking it up. I think the term "Labour of Love" can be applied to the trilogy for the many people, like me, who loved all the games, the characters, the universe and everything else and so put in the effort because we knew that it would all pay off in the end.

We are NOT in a serious huff because the game didn't have a happy ending!

Nearly every single person deriding us because we want the ending changed are ignoring what we are saying and / or speaking with air of smug-patronisation that makes me rather angry.

Let me put it another way: You are completely missing the point!.

While I fully accept that, on the whole, some people could stand to calm down a little bit, it does NOT alter the fact that everything we worked towards was rendered utterly irrelevant. It turns out no matter what we did and what he said, the ending, happy or not, gives no closure, no absolutiuon and shoots several big holes into the plot and canon while it's at it.

When you make a series of games such as Mass Effect, basing a massive amount of it on the principle that they are merely providing the framework on which we can build, you cannot have a "one-size-fits-all" ending! and that is essentially what he have...and it's a crap one to boot!

Speaking personally, I would have been satisfied with an ending in which I'd fucked it up because of what I had done, just so long as it explained WHY and went on to say: "And look what you did to the galaxy as a result, way to go, you tosser!" Sure I would have been happier if I'd done good we never had the chance to find out.

No matter what we did, it was all thrown away by the ending. There is no incentive to try again, as we are often urged to do in the ME2 loading screens, for a "whole new experience".

Look at it this way: Say I offered a service in which you paid me for a basic framework for a house. I also gave you a massive range of tools, materials, furnishings and said: "Do what you like; I have provided the means and now it's up to you to build the house YOU want to build. Also, if you want, I can provide other materials, some help with the building and also some labourers. They cost extra but are entirely optional."

With me so far? So you get to work on shaping your house, making your choices from the many options available to you. Sure other people are using my service but I guarantee that no two houses will be the same. As time passes, you see your house take shape and, although the process might have its setbacks, you are still working towards a place YOU want to live in and built the way YOU want it and you look forward to the end because you will have the absolution, if not the satisfaction, that this was pretty much all your own work.

So how would you feel that, if at the culmination of your efforts, I show up and bulldoze all the houses and then say: "You will live in a caravan, a shed or a tent - pick one!"

Even if you worked tirelessly night and day to make sure that the foundations would hold up the walls and the walls would hold up the roof; you mixed and matched styles to your tastes while still making sure that the toilet flushed and you were not electrocuted when you tried to turn the lights on, it makes no difference because I have just come along and, with no explanation, destroyed all your hard work and rendered it as irrelevant as the person next door who couldn't be arsed and made his "house" by stretching a tarp over the framework and then went to the pub.

Wouldn't you be just a little bit pissed off with me? I would!

What makes it worse is that I never gave you the chance to see if your house would have worked or not. Did using steel beams on the loft conversion instead of cheap, wooden ones stop the roof falling in? Does it appear to be perfect but wind up costing a fortune to maintain? We will never know because, despite all the pretty pictures I presented you in my pitch, I've rocked up in the Deus Ex Machina-mobile!

And as for the replay value...

Remember, you bought tonnes of different materials from me at the start so you still have the stuff to make many different houses on the framework I provided. You could have got to the end and realised, actually - this didn't work or (if you are like my parents) decide the house is awesome but are a masochist and so start anew anyway. Used bricks last time? Well why not go for a log-cabin this time? Baroque? Art-Deco? Modernism? How about a water-feature instead of a patio in the garden?

How would you then feel if I said: "Well yes you could start over but I'm just gonna do the same thing when you're done!"

You: "Can't we at least see if our houses stood the test of time or failed miserably?"

Me: "No, fuck off!"

You: "But...why?"

Me: "Fucked if I know - fucked if I care! Tell you what - I'll just chop the roof off and let you try a different colour of slates than before but be-warned that we you will just end up back here again. Oh and by the way, you can still buy those extras I mentioned. See ya!"

THAT is why we're so annoyed! I'm sure that you wont have read this because you will have dismissed me as a whiny, entitled shit who knows nothing at all, ever and that you are so clever you know everything.

Long and short - all we want to know is, what was the point? Did we make a difference? What becomes of the galaxy as a result of our actions? Even if we got it horribly wrong or just want to see what happened if you cut the red wire instead of the green wire, there is no way of knowing because we will always come back to the fact that it makes no difference at all.

The whole series also gears you towards building bridges and gaining allies - it's one of the few things that are crucial to every playthrough regardless of class, gender, orientation or what size gun you use. In ME1 and ME2, you CAN skip bits but you will pay the penalty just as you would pay the penalty if you had the chance to lay the bricks of your house properly but decided to use Pritt-Stick instead of mortar because it was cheaper and you couldn't be arsed with all that mixing of cement, sand and water. In the end, it's all turned on it's head because, the only real thing we can gain from the ending is that the more mates you bought to the fight, the more you are condemning to a slow and painful death or, at the very least, a very miserable existence.

Don't get me wrong, I have played and loved all three Mass Effect games. They became more than just three games that link together and have pretty blue alien-girls in; it's been a personal journey. Each game had it's pros and cons but I got on with it because, as I said, it had become a labour of love. I replayed my main campaign over and over, getting Lion Shepherd and his team as ready as can be and yet, in ten-minutes, EVERYTHING is rendered moot and that is why it cannot be allowed to stand!
 

Bevin Warren

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intheweeds said:
Because the argument is NOT: 'Did the ending suck and how bad?'

If it was, sure you would not be able to comment if you hadn't seen it. I'm sure it does suck. An awful lot of people seem to think so for it to be all that good. But we aren't debating whether or not the ending was any good.

The argument really IS: 'Does anyone have the right to change a work of art because they didn't like it?'

and it doesn't matter if you've experienced the ending to anything to have an opinion on that.
Yes.. Yes I do... its called the Patron Artist model... as a customer (Patron) I have every right in the world to request alterations are made to the product I am purchasing...Games are a new art form and are mass marketed - thus the Patron is no longer one individual but a large community - now if said community requests the product be finished to their standards it is actually the responcibility of the artist to comply...

The only art that is not up for community appraisal and change is art that has been created with the sole purpose of not being made for public veiwing... aka "Art for Art's sake" and a mass marketed game does NOT fit into that model...
 

Zortack

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Maybe we should start a bet on how much the author will donate once he's seen the retarded ending for himself?
 

wicket42

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I don't believe all of the fans feel they are (ugh starting to hate this word) entitled to a better ending.

My overwhelming feeling is that people are asking for a new ending, and are using the wrong word to do so (demand).

Change 'demand a new ending' to 'request a new ending' and my argument becomes, if you ask for nothing, that is all you'll receive.
 

Emiscary

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Varrdy said:
Don't get me wrong, I have played and loved all three Mass Effect games. They became more than just three games that link together and have pretty blue alien-girls in; it's been a personal journey. Each game had it's pros and cons but I got on with it because, as I said, it had become a labour of love. I replayed my main campaign over and over, getting Lion Shepherd and his team as ready as can be and yet, in ten-minutes, EVERYTHING is rendered moot and that is why it cannot be allowed to stand!
My thanks to the original poster for summarizing it so nicely. The underlying problem is that Bioware/EA have fundamentally failed to live up to the promises they made (as well our own expectations), then waved us off when we called them out on it. And by natural consequence they now risk alienating every single one of us.

And contrary to what Bioware/EA seem to think, we're not brainless couch zombies who will accept any excuse for slipshod work and continue to hand them money. We have very real standards for the work we choose to invest in. And if a particular game dev fails to meet them when push comes to shove- we'll simply find one that can. Maybe if Bioware tanks at the ends of this ordeal Bethesda/Arenanet/Blizzard will perk up and take notes for the future.

Oh, and I know it's been said multiple times but it really does bear repeating: asking a game developer who has the means, time and resources to change/edit a game remotely IN EXCHANGE FOR MONEY is not ridiculous. In point of fact it's quite reasonable. Games are not movies. They're not one offs shot in live action (mostly) are then shipped out months before the release date as is before the producers/writers/actors/etc. move on to the next 10000000x projects down the line. It WOULD be ridiculous to ask the director of a film to retroactively "fix" an unsatisfactory movie ending, largely because it would never happen. But asking a game developer who was already actively planning on releasing more content to adjust the ending to meet the fan's expectations? Not ridiculous. Not unrealistic. Not indicative of some looming era in which artists live under the tyranny of the idiotic masses. Just people who want return on their investments (in terms of time and money).
 
Mar 15, 2012
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Andy Chalk said:
On a more serious note, let me clarify again for those who still don't get it that it's not about how bad the ending is but the inherent silliness of demanding a do-over because you didn't like what you got. It's the internet equivalent of planting a big, sloppy kiss on a famous painting. What relevance to that is there in whether or not I've finished the game?

(Rhetorical question. Please don't feel obliged to answer.)
Okay so we've agreed the ending is bad, now let's get to the meat of this. I think any argument that relies on X is inherently Y needs to be examined more closely. Why exactly is it silly?

It's not technically impossible like it would be for a movie or a book. Indeed Bioware declared right there in the ending that there's more coming. This will inherently alter gameplay experience.

So why is the ending of the story inviolable?
 

Hoagster51

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Finish the game Andy! Then feel the Rage! I finished it this morning and immediately started reading about the other endings because i thought I had chosen the wrong one. But they are all bullshit.