Mass Effect 3's Ending Was Intended To Polarize

Lord_Gremlin

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Starke said:
aftohsix said:
Divisive would imply there was a significant split between people who liked the ending and people who didn't. From what I've seen online and in conversations with IRL almost everyone thinks the ending sucked.

It's bad when you have "biodrones" like myself agreeing with people who just like to hate on Bioware about something.
The real irony is, I'm with you on this, and I'm part of that weird camp that actually really liked Dragon Age 2.
I can easily explain that. I hated Dragon Age 2 with a passion, but while ending ignored player choices it made some sense. It's not like they pulled it all out of their butt. There were blood mages in the circle, Meredith was mad, templars were abusive. Ending wasn't satisfying, but it made some sense (I'm done with DA anyway though).
In case of ME3 the only people who love the ending are shooter players who never played 1 and 2 and don't give a damn about story, as long as MP is working fine (it's not working fine though). Because it's not about just ending not giving a damn about player actions. It's flat out stupid, bad writing. What really happened is that they botched original ending and slapped something together from pieces they had already voiced. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62230265
For example, Catalyst speech in the very end was originally Harbinger's illusion meant to fool the Shepard and kill her/him. And there was a persuasion check to break this free. But since they were out of time, they used this bit as they used it and the result is flat out stupid.
 

Erttheking

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Lord_Gremlin said:
Starke said:
aftohsix said:
Divisive would imply there was a significant split between people who liked the ending and people who didn't. From what I've seen online and in conversations with IRL almost everyone thinks the ending sucked.

It's bad when you have "biodrones" like myself agreeing with people who just like to hate on Bioware about something.
The real irony is, I'm with you on this, and I'm part of that weird camp that actually really liked Dragon Age 2.
I can easily explain that. I hated Dragon Age 2 with a passion, but while ending ignored player choices it made some sense. It's not like they pulled it all out of their butt. There were blood mages in the circle, Meredith was mad, templars were abusive. Ending wasn't satisfying, but it made some sense (I'm done with DA anyway though).
In case of ME3 the only people who love the ending are shooter players who never played 1 and 2 and don't give a damn about story, as long as MP is working fine (it's not working fine though). Because it's not about just ending not giving a damn about player actions. It's flat out stupid, bad writing. What really happened is that they botched original ending and slapped something together from pieces they had already voiced. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62230265
For example, Catalyst speech in the very end was originally Harbinger's illusion meant to fool the Shepard and kill her/him. And there was a persuasion check to break this free. But since they were out of time, they used this bit as they used it and the result is flat out stupid.
...Yeah, why would we want THAT ending? That actually makes sense!
 

PhantomEcho

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Polarizing would imply that there was DISAGREEMENT among how terrible the ending to this game was, at least to a point where one could call it a 'balanced' argument.

Anyone with a literary sense, who has played a game with a good story, or happens to read for enjoyment of well-crafted words rather than as an excuse to see the nude pictures behind the text is pretty unanimously agreed that the ending was crap.

It's a big world. There's bound to be a couple folks out there who disagree. But we can't rely on UNIVERSAL CONSENSUS every time.

For the sake of this argument, it's pretty safe to say that the VAST MAJORITY of people identified the ending to Mass Effect 3 as being completely indicative of either very poor story-writing, or complete and utter laziness. Sure, there's also the 'mindfuck' group and the conspiracy theorists... but really... the point all boils down to the same thing.

From the standpoint of quality, the ending sucked. There's not a lot of argument on that. That isn't divisive. That isn't polarizing.

That's rapidly overestimating the amount of bullshit your audience is willing to suspend their disbelief for, and coming back with a quick and poorly-articulated -excuse- for why the ending to a game which prides itself on having an excellent story and robust universe was so poorly thought out and even more-poorly written.

These things happen, though. I don't need a NEW ending for the game, although I (like some others) would certainly not mind some epilogue DLC which offers clarification to a handful of events (as well as some enjoyable extended gameplay, yes?)

Still, I accept that sometimes, a writer just screws up.

I can forgive it, when they fess up and admit to their mistaken judgement or poor choice. I can even forgive it when they keep their mouths shut and stand by their work in silence. But this comes off as being trite, pathetic, and deeply representative of the disconnect between game-makers and their audience.

They have no qualms with lying to our faces, blatantly. They show no hesitation to double back on themselves and refute their own previous statements. But most importantly, they show remarkably little understanding of what happens when you repeatedly and severely disappoint your audience time and time again.

Mass Effect 3's ending is the equivalent of writing a story about a hero who slays a dragon, only to have the last five sentences of your book occupied by the Dragon God King coming down from on high to hand you a couple of out-of-nowhere "Choose Your Own Adventure" story-book endings, thereby trivializing the entire story up to this point.

Having stripped any meaning from the narrative, what the consumer is left with is a technically exceptional game with mostly-entertaining mechanics, but whose plot leaves a foul, murky taste in one's mouth.

And they call that POLARIZING? Why?

Because people out there are imagining it can't POSSIBLY be as awful as it was, and are HOPING AGAINST HOPE that there is some deeper meaning to it than there most probably is.

Polarizing will be what happens when they inevitably attempt to resolve the issue, and inadvertently make it worse.
 

RJ 17

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I've been generous to Bioware, trying to spread a logical breakdown of the endings based purely on what is seen and experienced in them. I defended their position on the day one DLC as well as their introduction of multiplayer...

But I can only stretch the benefit of the doubt so far. Casey can say that the endings were meant to be polarizing and argument-starting but that's just hard to believe. Those people attacking the endings have just as many valid points as I have in defending the endings.

For a couple examples from both sides: just how DOES your final squad end up back on the Normandy to get stranded with Joker on some random garden world? If everything IS an Indoctrination hallucination, what's with Star Gazer talking to his grand daughter in the final scene about Shepard being a hero from "a long, long time ago"?If it was all real and you get the scene where you see Shepard's body gasp for breath while laying in a pile of rubble...how did he/she get there if he/she was just on the exploding Citadel that was in orbit? If it was all fake and the ending was supposed to be a Reaper trap giving Shepard two chances to kill himself/herself with one option to win...why do the Reapers leave anyways if you choose one of the "kill yourself" options?

So yeah, he can claim credit for the fact that the endings were polarizing and designed to be that way. But as an English major with a minor in Writing, I can tell you this: it is NOT good writing to intentionally leave your story with so many holes that people get into arguments about what's supposed to fill those holes. You can omit MINOR details to add some spicey mystery to your ending, but there should be plenty of evidence for a definitive interpritation, not wild, unprovable speculation.

So one last time, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps they WERE wanting people to debate whether it all really happened or if it was an Indoctrination hallucination...but if that is the case they failed miserably in executing it. Too much evidence to support both sides with not enough evidence to prove either one. This only makes it seem like they were disjointed and just kinda slapped a token "Matyr Sacrifice" ending together.
 

Starke

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erttheking said:
Here and there, some Bioware guy made a twitter post about it I think. I want it to be good but my cynicism levels are unusually high as of late. It doesn't help that there are a lot of rumors that we're just going back to Omega.
Yeah, the cynicism, I get. I was under the impression that the reason we never went back to Omega was because the Pariahs abilities caused the physics engine to go batshit.

Lord_Gremlin said:
Starke said:
aftohsix said:
Divisive would imply there was a significant split between people who liked the ending and people who didn't. From what I've seen online and in conversations with IRL almost everyone thinks the ending sucked.

It's bad when you have "biodrones" like myself agreeing with people who just like to hate on Bioware about something.
The real irony is, I'm with you on this, and I'm part of that weird camp that actually really liked Dragon Age 2.
I can easily explain that. I hated Dragon Age 2 with a passion, but while ending ignored player choices it made some sense. It's not like they pulled it all out of their butt. There were blood mages in the circle, Meredith was mad, templars were abusive. Ending wasn't satisfying, but it made some sense (I'm done with DA anyway though).
I am as well, I loathed the original. DA2 was a bit of an anomaly for me, and the reason I liked it was honestly mostly just because of the sarcasm options.

Lord_Gremlin said:
In case of ME3 the only people who love the ending are shooter players who never played 1 and 2 and don't give a damn about story, as long as MP is working fine (it's not working fine though). Because it's not about just ending not giving a damn about player actions. It's flat out stupid, bad writing. What really happened is that they botched original ending and slapped something together from pieces they had already voiced. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62230265
For example, Catalyst speech in the very end was originally Harbinger's illusion meant to fool the Shepard and kill her/him. And there was a persuasion check to break this free. But since they were out of time, they used this bit as they used it and the result is flat out stupid.
Yeah, I haven't had many issues with the multiplayer, but I've seen reports of people loosing upwards of fifty bucks worth of gear due to a glitch that randomly resets their unlocks, and actually saw a thing earlier tonight where the multiplayer store was actually eating someone's credits, and then disconnecting them, keeping the money, and not dispensing any packs.

On top of that, multiplayer and single player both use the same coalesed file to determine... well, everything. The file is hashed, but not encrypted. So the player that hosts matches can edit the file to do whatever they want. Which, in turn can get you banned, from Orign, for playing in a match with them, for hacking.
 

Lord_Gremlin

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erttheking said:
...Yeah, why would we want THAT ending? That actually makes sense!
See, for the original ending they needed to make whole another level and Harbinger boss battle + some cutscenes + some voice acting. And EA wanted game released and kinect support for 360 version.
Do you even realize just how rushed the game is? Multiplayer reset unlocks, unlocks people pay for. PS3 version drops below 20 FPS (while ME2 on the same engine runs fine, 30 FPS). Almost every bug from ME2 persists in ME3.
I'm sure right now someone in Bioware office says something like this: "I told you guys we should have sticked to original ending despite 2 month release delay. Now what are we going to do really? Who will buy 3 MP DLC we're already working on?" And someone replies "Bah, those morons will buy anything. That $15 DLC allowing you to play as Reapers in co-op? It will sell like hot cakes." And someone else reminds "But remember what happened DA2? It sold like shit, we had to give away free ME2 with it to break even.".
Well, expect to see a free game on origin for every ME3 purchase.

Bioware mentioned on forums that they worked hard, even on weekends. To me, it means that EA forced them to work extra to release game early. Rushed botch job.
 

lionheart_1

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I think this new and improved ending is better...

http://youtu.be/yctgK5DJJPA

But that's just my opinion, no need to go spreading it around.
 

Lord_Gremlin

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Speaking of unforgettable and polarizing, the ME2 ending in the way it works is similar to the sad and infamous act of terrorism in USA on 9/11. You know, the destruction of two towers.
What is important is that neither is a good thing.
Bioware is dead.
 

Something Amyss

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erttheking said:
...Yeah, why would we want THAT ending? That actually makes sense!
Madness, I tells ya. Some people just aren't satisfied with endings that have no connection to the series at large.
 

Starke

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The Jakeinator said:
I think this is a good case of insane troll logic.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic

"Want people to remember the ending to your game."

"MAKE YOUR ENDING SO CONTROVERSIALLY SHITTY AND UNSATISFACTORY, THEY'll REMEMBER IT."
Yeah, that worked... Honestly, I actually forgot about it during my second playthrough. It wasn't until I got to London that I remembered, "oh, yeah, the ending's shit, what the hell am I doing?"
 

Lord_Gremlin

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Zachary Amaranth said:
erttheking said:
...Yeah, why would we want THAT ending? That actually makes sense!
Madness, I tells ya. Some people just aren't satisfied with endings that have no connection to the series at large.
Sniff, sniff... I smell false advertising! Especially that marketing phrase about you not being forced into choosing an A, B or C ending regardless of your choices? That was a very specific lie.
Not like that it's uncommon in the industry. Remember Pete Hines lying about Skyrim on PS3?
 

cardinalwiggles

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DLC's :
1st they are purely comestic items or standalone expansion packs which add many many hours like a second game.
then they slowly evolve into single plot lines that are only 1 quest however dont affect the overall story.
then they become integral parts of the main story cut form the disk
now they are the entire endings to games.

it wont end untill the entire game is DLC and you just buy the source engine :p
(joke post not accurate)
 

Lord_Gremlin

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cardinalwiggles said:
DLC's :
1st they are purely comestic items or standalone expansion packs which add many many hours like a second game.
then they slowly evolve into single plot lines that are only 1 quest however dont affect the overall story.
then they become integral parts of the main story cut form the disk
now they are the entire endings to games.

it wont end untill the entire game is DLC and you just buy the source engine :p
(joke post not accurate)
You know, I've been wondering a long time where the line is. When general, mass public stops buying the game. Can you sell game without ending for $60? Half of a game? 3 first hours?
 

WanderingFool

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The Jakeinator said:
I think this is a good case of insane troll logic.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic

"Want people to remember the ending to your game."

"MAKE YOUR ENDING SO CONTROVERSIALLY SHITTY AND UNSATISFACTORY, THEY'll REMEMBER IT."
Still only second to the troll logic used for the reapers.

Also, Captcha: alive and kicking

...something about that seems...
 

DioWallachia

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Aaaah yes, the classic "Tommy Wiseau Parody Retcon" of "it sucks because it was intended all along" (This phenomena is being debated for a rename to "Stephani Meyer Parody Retcon" for the upcoming excuse for the Twilight series

As Yathzee said before: "If you want to smear yourself in shit to make an ironic statement then good for you but you still smell like shit"

Does this excuse the fact that the ending was badly written or that looks suspiciously similar to Deus Ex 1 by having 3 endings but ALSO having the Deus Ex Human Revolution "EndingTron" where you press a button to have an ending?