Mass Effect is no KOTOR
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How can you begrudge a game that lets you punch a female journalist in the face?
Joker was my least favorite character apart from Ashley, always bitching and whining the two of em.
Joker was my least favorite character apart from Ashley, always bitching and whining the two of em.
Stereotypes and simplistic design are fine when done well, I think that's something people keep overlooking in their urge to show off how clever they are and how clearly *they* could have come up with something better given the chance.
A well done simple story has lasting power, it reaches a wider audience and is easy to sympathize with. That's why every hollywood movie worth a damn has a romance plot of one sort or another, and why often the best movies are the ones with the most base plot (Why hello there Avatar, love ya!). Same applies to game writing. Oh sure every once and awhile comes along a Planescape: Torment that'll wow the audience with it's grand and wondrously fresh and inventive journey, but ya know what? Planescape didn't sell. It was a total failure.
So why try for something crazy and clever when simplistic but well-done is just as well appreciated by most and a much more certain sale?
That's part of the problem with Obsidian/Black Isle. Their writers refuse to compromise, they're almost always over-ambitious even when the game doesn't warrant it. Troika had the same problem. Meanwhile Bioware continues to retread the same path over and over daring only to deviate by small bits for fear of breaking a winning formula.
Someone's really got to get those two studio to work together again.
As for the whole Kotor vs. Mass Effect thing I think I actually prefer Mass Effect since once the initial oooh and ahhh of Kotors plot twist wears off you're left with one of Biowares more generic exploits. Mass Effect is much the same, but at least it does it with a nice stylish flair and plentiful explosions.
Of course Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn remains my favorite Bioware game to this date, although Dragon Age has proven to be a fun game it still lacks BG's whimsical charm and style.
A well done simple story has lasting power, it reaches a wider audience and is easy to sympathize with. That's why every hollywood movie worth a damn has a romance plot of one sort or another, and why often the best movies are the ones with the most base plot (Why hello there Avatar, love ya!). Same applies to game writing. Oh sure every once and awhile comes along a Planescape: Torment that'll wow the audience with it's grand and wondrously fresh and inventive journey, but ya know what? Planescape didn't sell. It was a total failure.
So why try for something crazy and clever when simplistic but well-done is just as well appreciated by most and a much more certain sale?
That's part of the problem with Obsidian/Black Isle. Their writers refuse to compromise, they're almost always over-ambitious even when the game doesn't warrant it. Troika had the same problem. Meanwhile Bioware continues to retread the same path over and over daring only to deviate by small bits for fear of breaking a winning formula.
Someone's really got to get those two studio to work together again.
As for the whole Kotor vs. Mass Effect thing I think I actually prefer Mass Effect since once the initial oooh and ahhh of Kotors plot twist wears off you're left with one of Biowares more generic exploits. Mass Effect is much the same, but at least it does it with a nice stylish flair and plentiful explosions.
Of course Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn remains my favorite Bioware game to this date, although Dragon Age has proven to be a fun game it still lacks BG's whimsical charm and style.
I liked both, I just find the genra intresting. Buts truth be told Wrex and Garus are my favorit. They just seem like assholes.
I am so happy to find someone else who didn't like Mass Effect.
I HATED it.
I give it a 6/10.
Thats how much I hated it.
(On the brighter side of my life I recently re-visited Half Life and changed my rating from WTF?/10 to Oh, I get it now/10)
((Just felt like sharing.))
I HATED it.
I give it a 6/10.
Thats how much I hated it.
(On the brighter side of my life I recently re-visited Half Life and changed my rating from WTF?/10 to Oh, I get it now/10)
((Just felt like sharing.))
Bastila's an uptight *****, Morrigan's an uptight *****. Oh sure, one's a homicidal maniac who is a little too much into the "Strong Survive" and the other is obsessed with Being Good to the point where she may start to ignore the intent in favour of following the letter but they're both the uptight bitches who the Hero eventually gets his schwingschwang into.Maze1125 said:
I love mass effect and kotor immensely, but mass effect wins in my books because the combat in kotor is a sack of crap that I was never good at. Mass effect is one of my favourite games ever.
If applied to Mass Effect, this would be the worst advice ever. Most of side missions in ME were terrible, worst part of them would be trying to steer MAKO through random generated landscape of polygons covered with a single texture.LordWalter said:
I really liked Kotor. It has a very special place in my heart (even though a friend spoiled the huge plot twist for me, then I completely forgot he did only to remember right when the cutscene started playing and Malak was asking, "You really don't know?"). I've played it twice too, something which I don't have time to do anymore with games. I loved the story, while considering the gameplay passable towards moderately good.
Mass Effect was ok, but not that great in my opinion. I didn't really enjoy the combat ("I will destroy you!" is burned into my auditory cavities) while finding the cover system a bit clunky. The story was nice, though the planet where you first discover the real enemies was way too empty and uninteresting. I had my romance subplot with Ashley and found it a bit forced... all she did was blabber on about her childhood (skipper) and I was supposed to fall in love with her? Same with the blue chick. Also, the blue chick's mother did a highly unconvincing heel face turn. At least in Kotor that only happened when using Force Persuade.
In conclusion, I liked Kotor better than Mass Effect, though I've played the former a very long time ago and I'm pretty sure I'd find it less entertaining gameplaywise by today's standards.
EDIT: Also this:
Mass Effect was ok, but not that great in my opinion. I didn't really enjoy the combat ("I will destroy you!" is burned into my auditory cavities) while finding the cover system a bit clunky. The story was nice, though the planet where you first discover the real enemies was way too empty and uninteresting. I had my romance subplot with Ashley and found it a bit forced... all she did was blabber on about her childhood (skipper) and I was supposed to fall in love with her? Same with the blue chick. Also, the blue chick's mother did a highly unconvincing heel face turn. At least in Kotor that only happened when using Force Persuade.
In conclusion, I liked Kotor better than Mass Effect, though I've played the former a very long time ago and I'm pretty sure I'd find it less entertaining gameplaywise by today's standards.
EDIT: Also this:
Bad Cluster said:
KOTOR.
It's the part where I got to the Citadel and found a representative of every major race there explaining exactly what stereotypical traits I could expect to see out of them for the rest of the damn game that I got bored and stopped playing Mass Effect. With KOTOR it took me until I actually became a Jedi. So yeah, bored to death by both of them, but I got farther with KOTOR so it gets my vote.
It's the part where I got to the Citadel and found a representative of every major race there explaining exactly what stereotypical traits I could expect to see out of them for the rest of the damn game that I got bored and stopped playing Mass Effect. With KOTOR it took me until I actually became a Jedi. So yeah, bored to death by both of them, but I got farther with KOTOR so it gets my vote.
As for Planescape: Torment, I read that it sold about 400,000 copies. I also read that it sold enough to make their money back, but not enough to warrant a sequel. I never read anywhere that it was even close to being a failure.The Madman said:
As for the rest, simplistic story is fine as long as they tell it well, and in a way that keeps us interested.
Am I asking for better storytelling and writing? Always. Am I tired of atrocious writing such as in MGS4? Yes. Is my opinion gonna change a damn thing? Nope. Whatever sells, sells. And they will keep making games this way.
The conflict/story/character development/etc. gets better and better with time, so if you've just now gotten to Noveria, the best is still ahead. Skip the side quests, buy the DLC (it's cheap), and enjoy the story. Give it a shot.
You're right; calling Planescape: Torment's sales a 'complete failure' is an exaggeration, but in the grand sense of time vs. profit it just didn't sell well enough at all to be worth the investment. More or less I'm just pointing out that brilliant although it may have been (And it really is brilliant, if you've never played Planescape: Torment you're missing easily the best plot ever thrown into a videogame!) it just didn't sell, and part of the reason for that is *because* it was so strangely brilliant. It scares people off when you deviate too much from the norm, and Planescape broke pretty much every fantasy cliche norm it could find and rather than being rewarded for it was punished for its audacity.CrysisMcGee said:
I mean just look at this clip from the vision statement:
How amazing does that sound? Really Amazing! But all the same when playing the game for the first time I've gotta admit some of my first thoughts were 'where's my longsword +5 and when can I learn fireball?'. Sort of a screwed if ya do and screwed if ya don't approach to storytelling and gameplay. So most developers rightly stick to what they know works; simplistic story and stereotypical but still enjoyable characters; Bioware especially in this case. Nothing wrong with that mind you, but it does lead to the inevitable 'I feel like I've done this before' situation that pops up when you realize Kaidan and Carth are pretty much the same character right down to the voice actor (Bioware *loves* using the same voice actors to the extent it's practically something I look forward to with every one of their games.)
But I'm getting distracted by Planescape: Torment which isn't what this topic is about, so I'll saunter off now.
I love Kotor, but I haven't been able to get through Mass Effect either.
I blame the fact that I played through almost half of it on the 360 when my brother borrowed one from his friend, and then when I started playing on PC I didn't want to have to go through all the boring crap before.
I actually find Eden Prime is a lot of fun and then the Citadel kills the game for me... Meh.
Dragon Age has been a lot of fun though, maybe I just need my games to have auto aim?
I blame the fact that I played through almost half of it on the 360 when my brother borrowed one from his friend, and then when I started playing on PC I didn't want to have to go through all the boring crap before.
I actually find Eden Prime is a lot of fun and then the Citadel kills the game for me... Meh.
Dragon Age has been a lot of fun though, maybe I just need my games to have auto aim?
I found KotOR pretty dry, actually. I thoroughly enjoy ME, though.
So I'm your opposite, like the first few responses.
So I'm your opposite, like the first few responses.