Mathematical ineptness among generally capable people
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People don't care about it with the way it's taught. I'm pretty good at maths and when you get to university I find it far easier to find it interesting and enjoyable. Problem is people won't learn it properly at school because basic maths is incredibly dull. If they'd have jazzed it up it'd be far better understood
Probably also have a lot to do with what you (don't) focus on, and how it's swiftly forgotten. In High school I was on the mathematical line and did quite well, but now only a few years later as a law student I've forgotten pretty much all but the most basic everyday math. Might be the extremely heavy focus on linguistic interpretation, understanding how complex sentences and articles relate to each other, and the exact definitions of concepts which pushed out the math.
Once real specialization sets in, other academic disciplines would usually suffer. I'm sure a fair few excellent mathematicians could be considered inept at making an advanced literary or grammatical analysis as well, despite being taught so earlier on.
Once real specialization sets in, other academic disciplines would usually suffer. I'm sure a fair few excellent mathematicians could be considered inept at making an advanced literary or grammatical analysis as well, despite being taught so earlier on.
Math is the bane of my existance in school because I use conventional method something I learned for psychology class and who is to blame for that well teachers thats what says in the book I can do task number 1 2 3 but when task 1 is altered and you need to think outside the box I just can't do it
If maths made sense I would be better at them. As it is, when the TA for linear algebra puts a formula on the board and then proceeds to solve it using numbers NOT IN THE PROBLEM, nor are the sum or the product or whatever of any of the numbers in the problem, that's when I get confused.
My point: If the math you are trying to teach me can only be solved by pulling the right random number out of your ass with no explaination why...... screw it. I don't need anything more than arithmetic in order to live anyways.
My point: If the math you are trying to teach me can only be solved by pulling the right random number out of your ass with no explaination why...... screw it. I don't need anything more than arithmetic in order to live anyways.
Well I study English and am terrible at maths. My cousin studies maths and is terrible at English. Seems like enough evidence for me.
I've been watching myself since I was pretty young and I've slowly noticed my brain go from very left-inclined to Right. When I was younger I had no problem with logic or pattern recognition and this climaxed when I stopped drawing for several years but the more creative and imaginative I am, the harder it becomes to grasp logic problems.
The problem isn't as straight-forward as that but it's definitely there and I do feel bad that I've lost my maths skills but I've gotten over it. Prefer artistic outlets anyway, they relate more to my inner escapist.
The problem isn't as straight-forward as that but it's definitely there and I do feel bad that I've lost my maths skills but I've gotten over it. Prefer artistic outlets anyway, they relate more to my inner escapist.
As someone who is good at maths, I have experienced throughout my whole life others finding it difficult, and as a result I think I have become quite sympathetic to such people.
I think a lot of it comes down to teaching. If we are talking about otherwise intelligent people who just don't get on with maths, in my experience the teacher will just assume that everyone "got" what they were being taught. I probably ended up teaching s much to my class mates as the teacher did.
For so many problems in maths all most people need is the right perspective to understand. This is where the problem using words comes in.
For example:
There are a number of ways to go about solving this problem and it comes down to fining the one that is easiest to remember for you.
If you would like an accurate model for multiplying 2 negative numbers I found some examples here [http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.negxneg.html].
I think a lot of it comes down to teaching. If we are talking about otherwise intelligent people who just don't get on with maths, in my experience the teacher will just assume that everyone "got" what they were being taught. I probably ended up teaching s much to my class mates as the teacher did.
For so many problems in maths all most people need is the right perspective to understand. This is where the problem using words comes in.
For example:
What is described here (owing apples) doesn't correctly translate into the problem (-2 x -2). This is where a lot of problems can occur. Just because the concept of minus numbers has been explained by "owing" of items in one instance doesn't mean it will hold true for all instances, and a lot of people don't understand that or just haven't had it explained to them.Corum1134 said:
There are a number of ways to go about solving this problem and it comes down to fining the one that is easiest to remember for you.
If you would like an accurate model for multiplying 2 negative numbers I found some examples here [http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.negxneg.html].
You would. When you said twice that amount, that "twice" would be a 2, not a -2, so -2*2 would equal -4, meaning yes, you would now owe 4 apples.Corum1134 said:
Personally, I am a whiz a math. I am 2 grades ahead in math, and still keeping an A.
Despite being quite adept at mathematics I often wonder how we actually manage to learn math in the first place, because at some point in our lives we must all have developed some internal logical or visual mechanic for performing calculations and understanding algebra and arithmetics and even though the subject is perhaps the only one with a perfectly consistent description and definition; all knowledge is ultimately personal.
Besides, the brain isn't a fixed structure but more or less unique to the individual so the idea that some people are either predisposed or conditioned early on in such a way that they can't process mathematics the same way or as efficiently as other people might isn't that strange to me. That said it also comes down to simple interest. We don't get good at something we don't care for.
Sure in many areas of mathematics it's just padding for the obvious but the fact that you have a theory for the obvious, being able to describe so much with a single definition is just powerfull to behold.
Besides, the brain isn't a fixed structure but more or less unique to the individual so the idea that some people are either predisposed or conditioned early on in such a way that they can't process mathematics the same way or as efficiently as other people might isn't that strange to me. That said it also comes down to simple interest. We don't get good at something we don't care for.
Personally I didn't think mathematics was truly awesome UNTILL set theory concepts started showing up (in Sweden we start pretty late though after a cathastrophic attempt to teach it in elementary school in the 70s).Generic Gamer said:
Sure in many areas of mathematics it's just padding for the obvious but the fact that you have a theory for the obvious, being able to describe so much with a single definition is just powerfull to behold.
I've always enjoyed maths and was good at it up until I was 15 when I stopped trying at school due to personal reasons. Even then, I was still one of the top of the class until I finished my A-levels. Unfortunately it is a topic that is very hard to catch up in. Due to some quirk of fate, I was ill the week my class was taught long division when I was 10 and dispite trying, I never really understood it or was able to do it until someone in my A-level class helped me out.
Also, especially at lower levels, a lot of maths consists of "This is the rule. Accept it and move on" and "There is only 1 right answer". If you compare this to the arts and humaities where things are largely based on interpretation of whats there, its a very different concept and so if you've trained yourself to be good at one, its harder to do the other.
EDIT:
Also, especially at lower levels, a lot of maths consists of "This is the rule. Accept it and move on" and "There is only 1 right answer". If you compare this to the arts and humaities where things are largely based on interpretation of whats there, its a very different concept and so if you've trained yourself to be good at one, its harder to do the other.
EDIT:
One theory I heard is that its because things we do naturally are often dependent on maths and engineering functions (judging distances & probabilities in sport, sums for trading, engineering for walking) we essentially do maths subconciously every day and so bringing it out of the subconcious into the concious in the form of maths lessons is easy.EscChaos said:
I'm pretty good at math, I was a year ahead since 8th grade. Since university it's never been a subject I've considered to have an innate inability in. Calculus I was actually one of my easier classes one semester and I was pretty surprised there were math majors who were having more trouble than I was.
I saw my brother struggle with math, he was in what everyone called "Velcro shoes math" in high school. He just didn't seem motivated at all and seemed to be set in this "I'm bad at math so I'm not going to try" attitude.
I saw my brother struggle with math, he was in what everyone called "Velcro shoes math" in high school. He just didn't seem motivated at all and seemed to be set in this "I'm bad at math so I'm not going to try" attitude.
Math and I have a very weird relationship. I learned towards the end of high school that American schools teach math wrong. Not that anything they teach is factually wrong, but that they don't teach it well. My senior year Calculus class was taught in a more socratic method, where the entire class worked together to help each other work through the lesson of the day with the teacher guiding us along. I learned a lot more about math in that class than I did in my previous three years of math combined. And I found that I do enjoy higher level math concepts, it is just that we make the journey there painful.
On the other hand, while I like math, it is not my first love. I am actually in college studying History and Political Science, so hard math is not something that regularly comes up except as a joke. But if there is one thing that I picked up from math it is that numbers should have a definitive answer. I hate when I have to take a social 'science' class and am told to accept that numbers are flexible when working with statistics. My field says that I should not like math, my interests tell me otherwise. But, I mostly focus on the legal aspect of poli sci, where there is a definitive answer generally.
On the other hand, while I like math, it is not my first love. I am actually in college studying History and Political Science, so hard math is not something that regularly comes up except as a joke. But if there is one thing that I picked up from math it is that numbers should have a definitive answer. I hate when I have to take a social 'science' class and am told to accept that numbers are flexible when working with statistics. My field says that I should not like math, my interests tell me otherwise. But, I mostly focus on the legal aspect of poli sci, where there is a definitive answer generally.
When reading about consepts such as Metric, Hilbert or Banach spaces with features such as being cauchy or complete, I think the set theory used feels very natural. It really feels like set theory provides the best means to giving good, precise and clear definitions of those consepts.Generic Gamer said:
On topic: I've always loved most subjects we had at school. Mathemathics, physics, chemistry, geography, history, arts and different languages can all be fun when taught right
, and I did pretty alright in all of them. I like to draw realistic drawings of nature and people, I had fun reading through harry potter in spanish and I study math at university. Sooo... I don't really fit into the stereotype mentioned I guess, since everything is fun to me.Oh, and as mentioned by some others, I hate it when someone just uses "this is the rule" when explaining maths to others. Besides the few axioms which you just need to learn/agree on it is all logic, and the teacher should be good at explaining the reasoning behind their rules. In elementary school, my teacher sucked at explaining things properly. She just wanted us to "follow the rule". If it wasn't for my dad, who explained the logic and reason behind everything after school, I'd probably lose interest in maths too!
I have a degree in law, with honours. I am horrible at mathematics. For example I know that I have to be very careful because I will transpose numbers. So maybe it is more of a numeracy issue than one with maths, but I suppose they go hand in hand.
I might have done better if my maths teacher from age 12-16 (when I dropped the subject) was not an evil sadistic sack of shit.
There was a definite incentive to do well - when returning home work he would make every stand. Then everyone who got 10/10 could sit, then everyone with 9/10 could sit and so on - and after a while there would just be a couple of us left standing and he would berate us for being stupid. There were many concepts that I just didn't really get - I will never forget cringing in front of a blackboard with a problem on it and having no idea on how to solve it and him just yelling over and over, as if that would suddenly give me a breakthrough. A good teacher would find another way to explain, or work through it with you, he just used to get red in the face and scream.
So, fuck maths. I was never good at it and used to spend hours a week being tortured over it.
I might have done better if my maths teacher from age 12-16 (when I dropped the subject) was not an evil sadistic sack of shit.
There was a definite incentive to do well - when returning home work he would make every stand. Then everyone who got 10/10 could sit, then everyone with 9/10 could sit and so on - and after a while there would just be a couple of us left standing and he would berate us for being stupid. There were many concepts that I just didn't really get - I will never forget cringing in front of a blackboard with a problem on it and having no idea on how to solve it and him just yelling over and over, as if that would suddenly give me a breakthrough. A good teacher would find another way to explain, or work through it with you, he just used to get red in the face and scream.
So, fuck maths. I was never good at it and used to spend hours a week being tortured over it.
I have dyscalculia, and there's a very definite difference between having it and being 'bad at maths'. Obviously it comes in different degrees, and mine is (relatively) mild due to my overall intelligence being (relatively) high.
But I study Computer Science at Uni, and have to take related maths modules. I count on my fingers, use number lines, and have to 'map out' algebraic equations and the like (such as with differentiation, I have to draw the power coming down to be multiplied by the number of x). I never learnt my times tables, as learning them by rote in primary school led to me learning them wrong (frequently confusing ones in the same table, such as seven eights being sixty-four). It also affects my sense of direction, my ability to tell left from right, and my ability to tell the time.
But I get on, and I find it kind of disconcerting that so many people have been saying that people are bad at maths just because they don't try. This is, probably in a worrying amount of cases, quite true, but come on!
I'm also good at English/History (though struggle with things like chronology), but not as good at them as I am at sciences. So take from that what you will, I guess. Hopefully this little essay added something to the debate?
But I study Computer Science at Uni, and have to take related maths modules. I count on my fingers, use number lines, and have to 'map out' algebraic equations and the like (such as with differentiation, I have to draw the power coming down to be multiplied by the number of x). I never learnt my times tables, as learning them by rote in primary school led to me learning them wrong (frequently confusing ones in the same table, such as seven eights being sixty-four). It also affects my sense of direction, my ability to tell left from right, and my ability to tell the time.
But I get on, and I find it kind of disconcerting that so many people have been saying that people are bad at maths just because they don't try. This is, probably in a worrying amount of cases, quite true, but come on!
I'm also good at English/History (though struggle with things like chronology), but not as good at them as I am at sciences. So take from that what you will, I guess. Hopefully this little essay added something to the debate?
I consider myself fairly capable when it comes to the study of languages and social studies or that sort of thing, but I'm absolutely terrible at math. I used to be pretty good at it, not exceptional, but adept, however, the last 2 years or so have been less than ideal. Perhaps I'm just not as invested as I once was, or maybe I simply can't comprehend the concepts we've been working on? I don't really know, but.....