Matt Gaetz accused of sex trafficking a minor, immediately throws Tucker Carlson under bus.

CM156

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Dear fellow Republicans,

Please, for the love of God, stop having sex with minors. It is not okay. I don't need to explain why it is not okay. If you need to have that explained to you, you should not be in a position of power.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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No, see, because they aren't technically hand straight cash out for sexual favors, it's not prostitution, even if they accidentally leave a wad of cash out on the nightstand after paying for travel, hotels, food and drugs.

The law is very specifically written, you see.
 

Dalisclock

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But, yeah, IIRC, Gwyneth Paltrow sued a real doctor because they sade that sticking bits of jade up your vagina is harmful and doesn't have any health benefits.

But the really weird thing was the product for steam cleaning vaginas. Which sounds like something of a really tasteless slasher film.
I want to say "Please tell me those are metaphors" but I already know they're not.

Excuse me, I need some bleach for my brain now.

Is it just me or does the right wing defense of Gaetz seem a little half-hearted?
From what I've been reading, Gaetz isn't particularly well liked in the GOP. Apparently his disturbing personal life is a bit of an open secret, and people like former DOJ head Barr didn't want to be seen next to him if at all possible.
 

tstorm823

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Holy crap! The extortion part is real? Lol.

Here's my take on the whole situation: I imagine most sex-criminals in the news in the way that SVU will eventually spoof them. And the image in my head, of the detectives interrogating a politician about his payments to women, then he really smugly says "people want to mischaracterize my generosity with my partners. I'm a generous lover, you know." And then Ice-T goes "well you were feeling a little too "generous" with a 17-year-old then", and the politician's face gets all serious and contorted and he goes "17-year old? I have no idea what your talking about! All those women were legal", and then he starts cooperating after 15 minutes of tv spent fighting through his obstruction.

Basically, he totally hired prostitutes and did illegal things with them, the part about a minor is substantially less likely but still possible so we shall see, and I would say NBC should hire me to write for them, but a trained monkey could write SVU because they've got a formula (and it works). And also, if it turns out he didn't have sex with any minors, and that piece of information was fabricated by people who knew about the prostitutes and were trying to extort him, they won't even have to write a plot twist when they make this episode.

Edit: for those who haven't or can't read the article Buyetyen posted:
Mr. Gaetz has sought to divert attention from the Justice Department investigation by claiming that he and his father were the targets of an extortion plot by two men trying to secure funding for a separate venture.

The men — Robert Kent, a former Air Force intelligence officer who runs a consulting business, and Stephen Alford, a real estate developer who has been convicted of fraud — approached Mr. Gaetz’s father, Don Gaetz, about funding their efforts to locate Robert A. Levinson, an American hostage held in Iran. They suggested to Don Gaetz that Mr. Levinson’s successful return could somehow be used to secure a pardon for Matt Gaetz if he were charged with federal crimes, according to a copy of their proposal provided to The Times.

Mr. Kent denied the Gaetzes’ assertions. He said he had heard rumors that Matt Gaetz might be under investigation and mentioned them only to sweeten his proposal. “I told him I’m not trying to extort, but if this were true, he might be interested in doing something good,” Mr. Kent said in an interview.
Yeah, that guy was trying to "sweeten his proposal" in the same way Gaetz was "generous with his partners". The criminal euphemisms are in full force here.

Second edit: to be clear, I'm not saying the silly extortion angle is a more or less likely than Gaetz having sex with a minor. I think both those things are unlikely. The facts as are already reported is that Joel Greenburg is guilty of that. So:

1) Joel Greenburg is currently charged with trafficking a 17-year-old girl.
2) Greenburg arranged for Gaetz to sleep with prostitutes.
3) They are very reasonably investigating whether Greenburg arranged for Gaetz to sleep with the 17-year-old. But that doesn't that actually occurred, only that an investigation is justified. I highly doubt the tax collector turned sex trafficker had Gaetz as the sole client he catered to.
 
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SilentPony

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So, (if they were of legal age) wouldn't that just be an agreement between two parties to provide certain services etc etc? Or prostitution?
To be fair the article also says they were taking Ecstasy, and supplied it to the women. So you know purchasing, possessing, and supplying illegal drugs. And if the women were underage, then it gets into drugging and rapping a minor.
If the allegations are true Gaetz and Greenburg are looking at decades in prison.
 

Agema

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Second edit: to be clear, I'm not saying the silly extortion angle is a more or less likely than Gaetz having sex with a minor.
If Gaetz has been screwing enough women of a relatively modest age brought into prostitution, there's actually a pretty good chance at least one was under 18. The other fun little titbit from the rumour mill was that Gaetz liked showing photos of the women he'd been having sex with to his colleagues in Congress. Keeping it classy, I see.
 

happyninja42

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If Gaetz has been screwing enough women of a relatively modest age brought into prostitution, there's actually a pretty good chance at least one was under 18. The other fun little titbit from the rumour mill was that Gaetz liked showing photos of the women he'd been having sex with to his colleagues in Congress. Keeping it classy, I see.
To be fair, the fact that he shared photos of his sexual exploits doesn't mean he's a predator, just a very Chaddy Dudebro. I mean it won't surprise me at all if he's ALSO a predator, but it's not 100% a conclusive thing.

I also find it funny that the whole "Yeah but there is an extortion thing going on!" is somehow supposed to what, absolve him of these charges? Sorry but you can be the victim of a criminal action, AND also have engaged in criminal activity of your own Matt. You don't get out of jail free because someone else was also doing something shitty.
 

tstorm823

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I also find it funny that the whole "Yeah but there is an extortion thing going on!" is somehow supposed to what, absolve him of these charges? Sorry but you can be the victim of a criminal action, AND also have engaged in criminal activity of your own Matt. You don't get out of jail free because someone else was also doing something shitty.
And for an elected official, it's even sillier. The suggestion that Donald Trump might be blackmailed over perfectly legal weird sex acts was considered a mark against him, saying you're being extorted over the felonies you did commit is not exactly a solid defense.
 

SilentPony

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I was watching the news, and MSNBC had on a reporter from the Daily Beast, and it was just bullshit. The reporter was all "We knew it 2018 Matt Gaetz was dating an over 21 intern from another office, and we chose not to run the story." and its like what story? Consenting adult in relationship with another consenting adult? Of all the shit to lay at his feet, a consensual relationship is not one of them.
Gaetz even said on Fox news people are gonna start taking his normal sexual relationships and making them seem criminal, so media please don't do exactly that.
Stick to the story, and the story is Matt Gaetz is under investigation for raping children, not dating an intern.
 

tstorm823

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the story is Matt Gaetz is under investigation for raping children, not dating an intern.
But that's the one part of story that they have no evidence for. Things there seems to be evidence for:

He had questionable relationships with women.
He had sexual relations with prostitutes.
He got in contact with prostitutes through a man currently under arrest for sex trafficking.
The two men and the presumed prostitutes they were with did illegal drugs provided by the men.
The man in jail for trafficking is being tried in part for allegedly trafficking a 17-year-old.

Why do you want focus on the single thing the news doesn't have evidence he actually did?
 

SilentPony

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But that's the one part of story that they have no evidence for. Things there seems to be evidence for:

He had questionable relationships with women.
He had sexual relations with prostitutes.
He got in contact with prostitutes through a man currently under arrest for sex trafficking.
The two men and the presumed prostitutes they were with did illegal drugs provided by the men.
The man in jail for trafficking is being tried in part for allegedly trafficking a 17-year-old.

Why do you want focus on the single thing the news doesn't have evidence he actually did?
Gaetz is also being investigated for traveling across state lines with a 17 year, and paying her to have sex. And seeings how minors can't consent to sex with a dude in his 30s, we use the word rape.

"Justice Department inquiry is also examining whether Mr. Gaetz had sex with a 17-year-old girl and whether she received anything of material value, according to four people familiar with the investigation. The sex trafficking count against Mr. Greenberg involved the same girl, according to two people briefed on the investigation."
 

Agema

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Gaetz is also being investigated for traveling across state lines with a 17 year, and paying her to have sex. And seeings how minors can't consent to sex with a dude in his 30s, we use the word rape.

"Justice Department inquiry is also examining whether Mr. Gaetz had sex with a 17-year-old girl and whether she received anything of material value, according to four people familiar with the investigation. The sex trafficking count against Mr. Greenberg involved the same girl, according to two people briefed on the investigation."
I don't know about the jurisdiction in question, but via mens rea some hold that as long as someone has good reason to believe the victim was of legal age, they should not be found guilty. However, this should be a reasonably high bar to pass - "I thought she looked 18" or "Her pimp said she was 18" almost certainly wouldn't fly.
 

SilentPony

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I don't know about the jurisdiction in question, but via mens rea some hold that as long as someone has good reason to believe the victim was of legal age, they should not be found guilty. However, this should be a reasonably high bar to pass - "I thought she looked 18" or "Her pimp said she was 18" almost certainly wouldn't fly.
I've heard cases of men still being found guilty of statutory rape even when the girl involved had a full fake ID, with the watermarks and holographic seals and everything. So it really depends.
But like you said if Gaetz just took his buddy's word, or the girl's word, or just thought she looked old enough, or something similar, that's not going to fly.
 

Adam Jensen

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The guy is a massive asshole who even looks like a comic book villain, but let's not try to make him out to be some kind of sexual predator just because he might have fucked a 17 year old. I honestly don't give a fuck if he did. It's creepy considering his age, but not any more or any less creepy than if he fucked an 18 year old.
 

Gordon_4

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But that's the one part of story that they have no evidence for. Things there seems to be evidence for:

He had questionable relationships with women.
He had sexual relations with prostitutes.
He got in contact with prostitutes through a man currently under arrest for sex trafficking.
The two men and the presumed prostitutes they were with did illegal drugs provided by the men.
The man in jail for trafficking is being tried in part for allegedly trafficking a 17-year-old.

Why do you want focus on the single thing the news doesn't have evidence he actually did?
See I wanna ask 'Jesus Christ do you not security vet your elected officials?' but my Government of the day just sacked a staffer who broke into a female worker's office - I don't recall if it was another parliamentary staffer or an MP - and jerked off on her desk and showed all his mates. So its not like we're doing much better on this front.
 

Trunkage

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And for an elected official, it's even sillier. The suggestion that Donald Trump might be blackmailed over perfectly legal weird sex acts was considered a mark against him, saying you're being extorted over the felonies you did commit is not exactly a solid defense.
I saw that incident an abuse of power and fruad
 

Agema

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See I wanna ask 'Jesus Christ do you not security vet your elected officials?' but my Government of the day just sacked a staffer who broke into a female worker's office - I don't recall if it was another parliamentary staffer or an MP - and jerked off on her desk and showed all his mates. So its not like we're doing much better on this front.
The question is more going to be what sort of vetting. I suspect they go through a basic background check - criminal records, family, maybe seek a couple of references. Perhaps at a higher level, take a bit more of a look corresponding to their power. But unless someone's very high up, they're not going to do that much. And even then - we know perfectly well lots of people high up have shady business deals and more, which are only revealed when the police happen to bump into it.

In terms of legislators, I expect them to be mostly vetted by their party. But there again, I don't think it's going to be at the sort of depth to look at their sexual pecadilloes.
 
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