Gengisgame said:
or I think we just need to admit that we discriminate, so either we don't discriminate at all or just accept that we will discriminate.
Well considering that this kind of discrimination is a fundamental root to a huge number of society's issues, the answer is to stop discriminating. We've made racial discrimination in public accommodations(like bathrooms and changing rooms), employment, and housing access. We also didn't allow homophobic discrimination dictate access to bathrooms and changing rooms, which there was a big push for at the height of the AIDS scare in the 1980s. So codifying transphobic discrimination into law, because someone might misuse it, legally oppressing a marginalized group, because of a minority of idiots who aren't even protected by transgender protections... That's a knee-jerk reaction based on something that only a few right-wing activists made a problem within the last few years. Mind you trans people have been using the appropriate bathroom to our gender identities for decades already, there are now 23 states with protections for trans people to use the bathrooms of our gender identity... The result? Basically no problems have arisen from these inclusive policies, the only stories I've seen hit the news are jackasses attempting to abuse the policies, as a political statement, and they always get called on it, not being given the accommodation for trans people.
Gengisgame said:
Just watched some Bill Maher and he was talking about what he calls boutique issues and considered the trans bathroom issue one of them, he said that he thinks people should be able to pee wherever they want but that it needs to be put on hold until the election is over.
First: Bill Maher has consistently been a transphobic dick, pulling awful transphobic jokes at the drop of a hat, for his entire career. This man has literally no space to speak on trans issues, because no matter what he says, he's not an ally, hes part of the problem where transphobia is concerned. He literally used a transphobic stereotype in the segment you're talking about. This is not someone who gets to dictate to trans people, because he's not trans, and he's sure as hell not a trans ally either.
Second: An issue that affects an estimated 1.4 million people in the US alone, that's not a "boutique issue". That's beside the fact that trans people are always being told to wait on getting basic human rights. Our issues have been used as a throw away card, to make gay rights look like a "compromise" for decades by groups like the Human Rights campaign. We're always expected to "wait just a little bit longer" to have our issues addressed, which isn't something trans activists willing to put up with any longer. That's besides the fact that there's always another election happen, where concern trolling "liberals" like Bill Maher are asking us to wait some more on us pursuing basic equality in our home lands, to have the right not to be treated like a pariah in our own home land that preaches the equality of all.
That's beside the fact that the reason trans rights became an issue to the general public in the first place, is because the far-right social conservatives in the GOP made it an issue. Christian hate groups like the Family Research Council are throwing huge amount of money into spreading misinformation about trans people, demonizing us in the general public, while mudding the waters about how us being protected is going to hurt "helpless women and girls". Which is sickeningly patronizing and sexist, besides the fact that it's an outright lie with no evidence to back up it's accuracy, but plenty to contradict it. That's not to mention what they're doing in the background, trying to throw up legal road blocks to make transition nearly impossible for trans people, while encouraging destructive so called "conversion therapy". Their literal goal is to make transition and public life impossible for trans people. The cherry on top: This is all because they lost on same-sex marriage, so they're focusing on a more socially vulnerable group, whose going to see a record number of murders amongst us this year, while they actively press for government policies that will drive many of us to suicide.
Gengisgame said:
This got me thinking about if that's the case then there should be no reason to have separate changing rooms.
The idea behind separate changing rooms is to make people comfortable and avoid any potential problems.
Changing rooms... Well lets see changing rooms in department stores and the like are fully enclosed and not actually segregated by gender, they're segregated by department. Restrooms already have private stalls, but they've actually found that universal restrooms with fully enclosed urinal and toilet stalls, with common hand washing areas, are much more efficient. While others have pointed out locker rooms, which have open showers and dressing areas aren't ideal for anyone... Which is the sort of thing trans people avoid like the plague anyways. The only reason those locker rooms are put up with, is because it's literally the only way it's commonly done and most people just grin and bare it, without demanding actual privacy accommodations.
Most of this still does nothing to make anyone comfortable, in fact most of it's just an artifact left over from the industrial revolution, when women joined public life and the working force.
Gengisgame said:
We see this as an acceptable level of discrimination, we know that most men won't cause problems but we disallow them because it makes women more comfortable and it drastically reduces the opportunity for men who will cause problems.
Who is we? A lot of people have a serious issues with the current gender segregated system, quite a few people point out that isolating either gender, by gender, actually increases victimization in assaults and sexual assaults. That's simply because there is less chance anyone will be able to come to your aid. Also it's a deeply sexist idea that men are the only ones who cause issues in these situations. Having been sexually harassed and touched inappropriately by lesbian women in women's restrooms... Yeah gender segregation doesn't actually do anything useful, it certainly doesn't stop misbehavior in gender segregated spaces, it doesn't even stop people of one gender invading the other gender's space to misbehave... It actually makes help harder to get.
Also this needs to be pointed out: Inclusive laws that protect access for trans people to appropriate restrooms
does not protect men who lie to gain access to women's spaces. It also doesn't make any illegal behavior in these gender segregates spaces any less illegal. The only thing that policies which intentionally exclude trans people do, is harm trans people. Period. That is all of what this entire debate is, weather, or not it's okay to directly target and exclude trans people from basic accommodations.
Gengisgame said:
So who decided that Trans where exempt from this?
First: Trans and Transgender are both adjectives, not nouns, it's "trans
people", not "transes" or "trans" without an appropriate noun. At the very minimum using trans, or transgender, without a noun, is bad grammar. I know I've said this to you @Gengisgame directly before.
Now to the quoted part: Trans people aren't exempt, in fact we have to play by the rules even more than cisgender people. Before we transition and before we transition enough to pass as our target gender, we use the facilities of our birth gender, after we start to pass we use the other. These facilities aren't ever enforced on genitals, or genetics, or birth certificates... They're enforced purely on appearance, so we use the facilities that match our appearance, both for our own safety and the comfort of everyone involved. Most of the time people are never aware they've been in a restroom with a trans person. More over a large number of trans people just refuse to eat and drink, to the detriment of their own health, just to avoid using public facilities. Not out of respect either, but because they're terrified for their own safety. We're not exempt from the rules, the rules apply far harder to us than anyone else.