Mercenaries and its Controversy

blackhydra12

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There is no free speech, even in America. Speech is always constrained within certain limits. For example, you're not allowed to promote hate

Actually you can promote hate speech. there are all sorts of hate groups in America (IE KKK)
 

Trace2010

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Johnn Johnston post=18.72006.744716 said:
cleverlymadeup post=18.72006.744694 said:
the best was a few months ago when the King of Spain told him to shut the hell up cause he was an annoying windbag
The best part of that post was that it was almost a direct quote.
I thought that WAS a direct quote...but my Spanish is still faulty.
 

Trace2010

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blackhydra12 post=18.72006.753937 said:
There is no free speech, even in America. Speech is always constrained within certain limits. For example, you're not allowed to promote hate

Actually you can promote hate speech. there are all sorts of hate groups in America (IE KKK)
Hell, you can even package and sell hate speech (and make millions doing so) as long as you market it under the word "cultural", or "gangsta" or "ethnic" or "freestyle"...
 

Typecast

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OverlordSteve post=18.72006.753780 said:
And the Halo series has hidden anti-religious messages.
YAY! The only positive thing I'll ever say about HALO... ever.
 

wilsonscrazybed

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Moved to gaming discussion.

Also, Mercs was banned here in South Korea because they felt it was culturally insensitive. For the record this and maybe two other games are the only ones I have ever heard of have been banned in Korea. If you think about it, that is a whole heck of a lot less than Germany and Australia. By those country's standards Korea seems downright liberal for a country engaged in civil war.
 

videot76

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Mercenaries 2 is so bad no one could take it seriously, much less be inspired by it. Now that it's actually released (and close to unplayable), Chavez can't really complain. It is not Venezuela it makes look bad - it's the game makers.
 

Aeviv

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Come on! Its a game! Can no one take this at all not seriously? Next they'll be telling us that we cant play Half life for fear that the large hadron collider will open a portal that will pour the combine onto earth! Or that Rainbow 6: LV, is preparing people for a terrorist attack on vegas!
 

arrr_matey

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Aeviv post=9.72006.755974 said:
Come on! Its a game!
It's not "just a game"...

This is the theory: media like books, movies, tv shows, and games all contribute to our understanding of the world. The way we mostly learn about the world is by what we see in these forms of media. Therefore, if what these media present to us is a largely distorted view of the world, then our views will be similarly distorted.

It's not that one game has the power to change our perceptions, it's that this continuous onslaught of media shapes our perceptions.

So, Chavez is a douche for thinking that people are going to instantly be "tricked" that the Venezuela in Mercenaries 2 is just like the real one. People aren't that dumb (I hope). (And he's also dumb for thinking Pandemic is in some sort of collusion with the government)

But, the "it's just a game" crowd don't see the bigger picture. Mercenaries 2 could be contributing to a greater media bias towards South American countries, depicting them in stereotyped ways. (Haven't played it, so can't say).

Same thing with the Resident Evil 4 debate. It's not that people are going to instantly become racist by playing it. I think some people were genuinely concerned that "here we go again with another game that makes black people the bad guys and makes Africa look like a continent of shacktowns and poor people." The stupid thing is that they didn't wait for the game to actually come out and see it before they started complaining.
 

TsunamiWombat

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1) Why did Mercenaries 2 have to be set in a real country at all? What do they gain from calling the country Venezuela when they could have just called it Kookamungaland and made exactly the same game?
A grounding in reality creates an instant sense of immersion- you can relate to whats going on. It makes the narrative and game more compelling. People need to stop being bitches.

2) Imagine if a Venezuelan company produced a game where you got to take down American forces and overthrow the U.S. president? As if Americans wouldn't be outraged.
I'd play it. Sounds cool. As long as you do it with President Bush. And fill it with anti american imperialist propoganda. This isn't a sarcastic quip- i'd play it for the novelty if nothing else.
 

Raven28256

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arrr_matey post=9.72006.753753 said:
Allow me to be devil's advocate here for a sec...

Whatever opinion you may have of Chavez' sanity, it's not like Venezuelans have the market cornered on being way too oversensitive about stuff like this. Look at how badly Americans freak out whenever the news reports about an Iranian or Syrian game where you blow up Americans.

I think the key questions here are:

1) Why did Mercenaries 2 have to be set in a real country at all? What do they gain from calling the country Venezuela when they could have just called it Kookamungaland and made exactly the same game?

2) Imagine if a Venezuelan company produced a game where you got to take down American forces and overthrow the U.S. president? As if Americans wouldn't be outraged.
1) Because it makes the game feel more realistic. Personally, I hate it when a TV show or game doesn't have the balls to use a real country because they want to be "politically correct." It is hard to take a game seriously when they use "Thisplaceisfakeistan" as a setting instead of a real country because of "political correctness."

2) I don't think anyone would notice, honestly. The game wouldn't be released here, so I don't think anyone would even learn about it, much less care.

Moving on topic:

Really, Chavez? Why are we actually paying attention to anything that bag of hot air or his "lawmakers" say? It is right up there with listening to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's chest-pounding. I mean come on, we are talking about a country with a government that honestly thinks every time President Bush takes a piss it is a sign that American aircraft carriers will be on their horizon. Just last month Chavez was rambling about how his 24 new Sukhoi fighters fresh from Russia will be enough to "fend off any Imperialist America expansion."

Chavez can't go more than a few weeks without saying some random thing like "Americans are SATANIC!!" or "America has a fleet gathering to invade us, I just KNOW IT!!!" So why are we taking him seriously? It is like taking a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist who claims that E.T. was beamed down from space and raped him in his sleep seriously.

On a side note, there are worse countries when it comes to game censorship. I won't mention the Germans or Aussies because they already had a passing mention, but look at Saudi Arabia. They banned Pokemon because it "supports Zionism and the Israeli regime." POKEMON! Just because a six-pointed star is in the card game for the "colorless" type. A six-pointed star that doesn't even look like the Star of David.

Or how about China, where they banned a HISTORICALLY ACCURATE WWII RTS because it showed certain territories under Japanese control and not Chinese control. In China, if the game doesn't fit into the government's twisted view of Chinese history, then it is an instant ban.
 

arrr_matey

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TsunamiWombat post=18.72006.756163 said:
A grounding in reality creates an instant sense of immersion- you can relate to whats going on. It makes the narrative and game more compelling. People need to stop being bitches.
I don't agree. I think people who need a game to be based in reality lack the necessary imagination to create their own immersion. What difference does it make? The way a foreign country is depicted in a videogame is just as imaginary and unrealistic no matter what name you call it. Clearly, the Venezuela in Mercs 2 is nothing like the real one so what's the point?

It's not more realistic. If anything, it's less realistic because we can all so easily point out the flaws in the depiction of so-called reality.

It would be like making a game take place in your house, only your house is filled with terrorists and your family are all pirates. Just because I call it your house doesn't make it more realistic.
 

Grampy_bone

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If Mercenaries 2 is anti-venezuelan propaganda then Chavez has nothing to fear--no one is playing it!
 

TsunamiWombat

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arrr_matey post=9.72006.756432 said:
TsunamiWombat post=18.72006.756163 said:
A grounding in reality creates an instant sense of immersion- you can relate to whats going on. It makes the narrative and game more compelling. People need to stop being bitches.
I don't agree. I think people who need a game to be based in reality lack the necessary imagination to create their own immersion. What difference does it make? The way a foreign country is depicted in a videogame is just as imaginary and unrealistic no matter what name you call it. Clearly, the Venezuela in Mercs 2 is nothing like the real one so what's the point?

It's not more realistic. If anything, it's less realistic because we can all so easily point out the flaws in the depiction of so-called reality.

It would be like making a game take place in your house, only your house is filled with terrorists and your family are all pirates. Just because I call it your house doesn't make it more realistic.
By that logic people who play games lack imagination because they should be in their backyards pretending to shoot terrorists with a stick and making pow pow noises with their mouths. Also, I again would play the game your suggesting. Terrorists V. Pirates? Win.
 

Theo Samaritan

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Najos post=9.72006.744185 said:
Everyone knows Chavez is batshit loco.
Everybody in America SAYS he is batshit loco. He has actually done alot of good for his country, better than bush has done for his.
 

JayDig

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Never played the first one, but I got Mercenaries 2 for PC. It's pretty fun, with no game breaking bugs and an enjoyable co-op multiplayer. Is it really bad on console or something?

Anyway, the story of the game is that some bad guy businessman/politician overthrows the government of Venezuela in a coup, and the hero must defeat him and presumably return the country to it's previous leadership. That doesn't sound anti-Venezuela to me.

During the course of the game you can help left-wing and/or right-wing factions. Out of everyone, the American oil company are depicted as the most comically inhumane and careless, while the left-wing guerillas are the most sympathetic.

The story in this game is not very deep or anything, but I think setting it in a fictionalized Venezuela is less offensive than Afghanistan..
 

TsunamiWombat

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Chavez is very similar to Bush. Both politicians have their intelligence and sanity disparaged almost universally, but both are infact very cunning and effectivly manipulated/are manipulating their countries using a combination of misinformation, scare tactics, Straw Man arguements and EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET US! Chavez is just using "Imperialist USA" in the same way Bush used "Islamic Terrorism"- as a caire blanche to get away with what he wants by focusing his peoples eyes on a bigbad beyond their borders and scaring the shit out of them that someones going to start bombing their hospitals and schools. Fear + Patriotic Machismo + Misunderestimation (self coined Bushism, a contraction of "Misunderstanding" and "Underestimation") = Victory for a polictician.

It's all an act, I assure you- theres no such thing as a truely 'inept' Demagogue/Strongman/"President". There is no way they would get their posistion/keep it if they weren't able to manipulate the thoughts and fears and others while ruthlessly stamping out opposition to their regime - don't forget, President Bush has over the past eight years completly eradicated non Republican Partisan supporters in both the department interior and the justice department and fired those who opposed his policies, effectivly giving him strong influence over the complete government if not outright complete control, FYI it's going to be hilarious watching the next president try to sort all of that shit out he'll probably have to fire everyone and rehire every posistion.
 

Dudemeister

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cleverlymadeup post=9.72006.744694 said:
Chavez is a wanker, he sells all his oil to america and invests heavily in america and condemns it every chance he gets.

the best was a few months ago when the King of Spain told him to shut the hell up cause he was an annoying windbag
Yeah that was funny, Chavez got PWNT
 

NeedAUserName

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But its true. IT IS JUST A GAME, chill out.

It not like people playing it are going to move to Venezuela and start a mercenary organization or anything. Anyway you have to be able to be ale to roll with the punches, accept payback, Chavez ridicules America at every thing, yet complains when America retaliates. Anyway what about films like Red Dawn were Cuba and Russia invade America, did Cuba complain? No. Did Russia complain? Yet again No.
 

Johnn Johnston

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arrr_matey post=9.72006.753820 said:
Can you assure me that not a single Russian had a problem with COD4?
Maybe a couple of people were offended, but to my knowledge (please do correct me if I'm wrong) the Russian government didn't give a statement condemning it.

Trace2010 post=9.72006.753989 said:
Johnn Johnston post=18.72006.744716 said:
cleverlymadeup post=18.72006.744694 said:
the best was a few months ago when the King of Spain told him to shut the hell up cause he was an annoying windbag
The best part of that post was that it was almost a direct quote.
I thought that WAS a direct quote...but my Spanish is still faulty.
It may be a direct quote. I'm not a Spaniard, but I heard that he told Chavez to, literally, "shut up".