Metroid Prime 4 Announced for Nintendo Switch

Vigormortis

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Poetic Nova said:
Not exactly much to go on with just a title reveal.
It might aswel be Federation Force all over again. Or worse.
Kind of my thinking. Until we know who's involved in production I can't bring myself to be excited.[footnote]I'm not even sure I want Retro to do it. Modern-day Retro hasn't exactly been churning out the hits since Prime.[/footnote]

Nintendo's been pretty good, of late, at hyping up the fans with the sudden reveal of a beloved franchise returning, only to shit out some catastrophically awful mess of hot garbage by some no-talent team. They promise the carrot but dish out the whip. Me wonders when the fans will catch on...
 

Cowabungaa

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Gizen said:
fix-the-spade said:
Xsjadoblayde said:
N...no colon followed by subtitle? Just a Prime?
We don't know who's making it yet.

After Other M, Federation Force and the unrelated but equally disastrous Starfox 0 I'm not sure I trust Nintendo to make a great game of it.

Of course, if they annoucne that Retro Studios are making and that Todd Keller and Andrew Jones are doingthe art design, I'll dance a mad happy dance.
It hasn't been officially announced, but Retro Studios has been teasing that they've been working on Prime 4 for weeks prior to E3. Example, at one point someone asked them on twitter what they were working on lately, and they responded with a picture of prime rib. Then further take into account that Prime 1, 2, and 3 were all done by Retro as well, it's virtually a guarantee that Retro is the one working on Prime 4.
Retro isn't working on it though. [http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/06/13/e3-2017-metroid-prime-4-is-not-developed-by-retro-still-has-longtime-series-producer] So there ya go. That worries me a little, but as long as they nail the "exploring an abandoned world" vibe I'm 100% game. The old producer is working on it though, but that IGN article gives an old quote of his wanting to do things with characters to which I'm like "Please no."
Vigormortis said:
Retro has released the excellent new Donkey Kong games actually, so yes they've definitely been releasing hits.
 

karkashan

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medv4380 said:
I'll buy 1, 2, and 3 are Prime but 4 is definitely not prime. Fortunately that 4 is just a typo. 4 was Other M and thus not Prime. 5 is Prime.
Metroid 4 was Fusion.
 

Veldel

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Hawki said:
ccggenius12 said:
Now all they need to do is announce a New F-Zero, and I'll blindly purchase whatever horrible device they tell me to.
I see your F-Zero and raise you Advance Wars, Golden Sun, and a proper (key word: proper) Star Fox game.
*takes out wallet and throws all his money at screen* GIVE ME A NEW ADVANCE WARS
 

Gizen

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Cowabungaa said:
Gizen said:
fix-the-spade said:
Xsjadoblayde said:
N...no colon followed by subtitle? Just a Prime?
We don't know who's making it yet.

After Other M, Federation Force and the unrelated but equally disastrous Starfox 0 I'm not sure I trust Nintendo to make a great game of it.

Of course, if they annoucne that Retro Studios are making and that Todd Keller and Andrew Jones are doingthe art design, I'll dance a mad happy dance.
It hasn't been officially announced, but Retro Studios has been teasing that they've been working on Prime 4 for weeks prior to E3. Example, at one point someone asked them on twitter what they were working on lately, and they responded with a picture of prime rib. Then further take into account that Prime 1, 2, and 3 were all done by Retro as well, it's virtually a guarantee that Retro is the one working on Prime 4.
Retro isn't working on it though. [http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/06/13/e3-2017-metroid-prime-4-is-not-developed-by-retro-still-has-longtime-series-producer] So there ya go. That worries me a little, but as long as they nail the "exploring an abandoned world" vibe I'm 100% game.
Well then... All I want to know is... what the fuck is Retro working on?

The old producer is working on it though, but that IGN article gives an old quote of his wanting to do things with characters to which I'm like "Please no."
Are you talking about this one?

Back in 2015, Tababe told IGN what he wanted in a new Prime sequel, explaining that there is "still more I want to build around the story of Sylux and Samus. There?s something going on between them. I want to make a game that touches upon [it]." He added at the time that "in that eventual game between Sylux and Samus that might get made, that I want to involve the [Galactic] Federation as well."

Because I actually would like to see that, and I know I'm not the only one. In Hunters, Sylux was the one who clearly had the most room for expansion into a larger narrative, and who has the largest potential tie-in to the issues that Metroid games keep regularly dipping into (such as the GFed not being as good as they appear). Furthermore, Sylux pursuing Samus was also teased in the 100% completion post-credits scene of Prime 3.
 

Hawki

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Gizen said:
Because I actually would like to see that, and I know I'm not the only one. In Hunters, Sylux was the one who clearly had the most room for expansion into a larger narrative, and who has the largest potential tie-in to the issues that Metroid games keep regularly dipping into (such as the GFed not being as good as they appear). Furthermore, Sylux pursuing Samus was also teased in the 100% completion post-credits scene of Prime 3.
I'd add Weavel and Trace to that. Weavel would logically have a grudge against Samus since she was the one who destroyed his original body, and while Trace in of himself (itself?) isn't interesting, the kriken could serve as foils post-Super Metroid since the Space Pirates have gone the way of the dodo. Not that I ever really got that invested in the characters of Hunters (since the game presented them as nothing but mutes to be killed), but I'll be honest, I never really got the infatuation with Sylux. None of the Hunter bounty hunters have any personality whatsoever, yet he's the one people love because his backstory is slightly less generic than the rest of them? Even in Prime 3 the confirmation that it was Sylux's ship came after the game itself, and was academic to the plot of the game overall.
 

Gizen

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Hawki said:
Gizen said:
Because I actually would like to see that, and I know I'm not the only one. In Hunters, Sylux was the one who clearly had the most room for expansion into a larger narrative, and who has the largest potential tie-in to the issues that Metroid games keep regularly dipping into (such as the GFed not being as good as they appear). Furthermore, Sylux pursuing Samus was also teased in the 100% completion post-credits scene of Prime 3.
I'd add Weavel and Trace to that. Weavel would logically have a grudge against Samus since she was the one who destroyed his original body, and while Trace in of himself (itself?) isn't interesting, the kriken could serve as foils post-Super Metroid since the Space Pirates have gone the way of the dodo. Not that I ever really got that invested in the characters of Hunters (since the game presented them as nothing but mutes to be killed), but I'll be honest, I never really got the infatuation with Sylux. None of the Hunter bounty hunters have any personality whatsoever, yet he's the one people love because his backstory is slightly less generic than the rest of them? Even in Prime 3 the confirmation that it was Sylux's ship came after the game itself, and was academic to the plot of the game overall.
I'd agree with that. Weavel was my personal favourite hunter simply because I liked the idea of a regular space pirate (as opposed to Ridley/Mother Brain who are space pirate associated but clearly of an entirely different species) who wasn't just a generic grunt soldier and actually had the theoretical potential to go toe to toe with Samus. Likewise Trace was a nobody but the Kriken had good potential to be a new enemy instead of always resorting to space pirates over and over.

The reason Sylux gets the most love though stems from good old fashioned mystery. His backstory portrayed him as somebody who had a history with both the GFed and Samus herself, but gave no hints as to what that backstory actually was. Just some generically evil asshole who has a grudge against the GFed imposing law and order on the galaxy? Or maybe somebody who knows of the GFed's corrupt nature and is trying to fight it while viewing Samus as their unwitting super-weapon pawn? Or something else entirely? At the end of the day, people's natural curiousity tends to make them latch onto stuff like that and demand answers, regardless of whether those answers are actually any good. Plus people still long to know Samus's fate post-Fusion, and until some post-Fusion game gets made (assuming one ever even does), any attempts to theorize what post-Fusion events might entail ultimately comes around to trying to figure out just how corrupt the GFed actually is. So someone like Sylux who has a connection to the GFed, but not a connection that anybody actually knows, gets people's minds wondering on whether information on him could in turn give us some ideas as to what a post-Fusion Metroid setting would look like.
 

Hawki

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Gizen said:
Plus people still long to know Samus's fate post-Fusion, and until some post-Fusion game gets made (assuming one ever even does), any attempts to theorize what post-Fusion events might entail ultimately comes around to trying to figure out just how corrupt the GFed actually is. So someone like Sylux who has a connection to the GFed, but not a connection that anybody actually knows, gets people's minds wondering on whether information on him could in turn give us some ideas as to what a post-Fusion Metroid setting would look like.
I'll be honest, while I can understand people wanting Metroid stories set post-Fusion, I'm not really one of them myself. Granted, Fusion was the first Metroid I played (and even then, I've only ever completed 4 Metroid games), but looking at Fusion, I have to ask whether it needs a sequel, or whether it really lends itself to one. As in:

-The ending does present the possibility of Samus becoming at odds with the Federation, but it does end optimistically. Samus is taking her ship back to Federation space, ADAM tells her that he's confident that at least someone within the Federation will accept that the X couldn't be controlled and that Samus's actions were for the best. Thing is, the game could have ended with a "to be continued," but it conspicuously didn't. Any further continuation risks undermining the ending - how many series are there across mediums that extended beyond their natural end point? What said point is will vary per person, but, that Fusion was my first Metroid game aside, I'd say that Metroid so far hasn't joined their ranks.

-Assuming a game is set after Fusion, I have to ask, what kind of story can be told? Let's say that Samus goes up against the Federation, which employs conventional armed forces (marines, ships, etc.) How well does the Metroidvania style fit in with predominantly human enemies who'd utilize less...esoteric environments than the likes of Zebes? I can't really say "buck the formula," because I'm well aware of fan vitriol towards Other M and Federation Force. So, either a post-Fusion game ignores what plot hooks Fusion left (pissing off fans), ignores game formula to deal with a Federation enemy (pissing off fans), or tries to make it work (likely pissing off fans). Maybe it could be done, but, well, let's say that as an outsider, I've seen Metroid fans get angry. When they get angry, they REALLY get angry...

I mean, if I had to try and combine the two camps, it would be something like Samus investigating a Federation base where bio-weapons have got out of control, gaining info on the rogue operations (key word on "rogue") of the Federation outfit we've seen hints of in Other M/Fusion, and getting it to the Federation proper, proving complicity or something, but even then, that's a pretty generic plot. Which brings me to:

-Minor point, and easily alleviated, but I'm really not fond of Samus's Omega Suit at the end of Fusion. I think it's fine for her to end her story with it, but it isn't something I'd like to play with much. Or, you can play as someone other than Samus (Sylux himself is an example) and start a new story thread entirely, but again, after Federation Force, I don't think many people would be reciprocal to that idea.

So, as far as the Metroid series goes, I'm fine with how it currently stands. I tend to prefer plot-heavy Metroids (e.g. part of why Fusion is my favorite out of the ones I've played), so plot-wise, I'm good, as far as an overall arc goes. I'm fine with games being set before Fusion because they can't mess with its ending, and there's plenty that can happen prior to Fusion. Almost certainly, Prime 4 in this case.
 

Gizen

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I'm actually with you in that I'm what feels like one of the few people who isn't demanding a post-Fusion game, mostly because I agree with your minor point on the Omega Suit. Hell, the fusion suit as a whole didn't really appeal to me. I appreciate the attempt to do something different with her design but I just felt like the fusion suit specifically was such an ugly design. If anything, the main reason why I personally would like to someday see a post-Fusion Metroid stems less from wanting to see the story continue, and more because I feel like you can only keep mining the 'in-between, not-quite-a-prequel' space for so long before it starts to get stupid and... it feels like we're kind of getting close to that point.

That said, I do feel like you can do a Metroidvania style setting with predominantly human enemies. Afterall, the setting of Fusion was a human built space station. Just like, swap out some of the aliens for human-controlled/piloted mechs, replace generic space pirates with generic GFed, keep some of the lesser aliens as pests or vermin who've infested some regions of the area, and bam you're good to go.

As a Metroid fan though, I find myself in the minority in a lot of things. Like, I'm somebody who didn't hate Other M (I found it distinctly middle of the pack for Metroid games, worse than Prime 1/3, Super, and Zero Mission, but I enjoyed it more than Prime 2/Hunters, Return of Samus, and Fusion). I wouldn't mind post-Fusion Metroid games starring someone who isn't Samus. Like, I didn't have an issue with Federation Force not having you play as Samus. I had an issue with the gameplay being a successor to Hunters (which is probably the game I rank dead last in the Metroid franchise), where you play as generic nobodies who aren't even given names (as opposed to actually making a real character or putting underutilized assets like the Hunters to better use), with a chibi-fied art style that doesn't really mesh with the Metroid franchise as a whole being one of Nintendo's most visually realistic franchises.
 

Souplex

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After 10 years (That's right, Corruption was '07, and there hasn't been a new Metroid since) we finally get a new Metroid?
What's that I hear you say "Other M and Federation Force"? I'm pretty sure those never actually happened.
 

Davroth

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They couldn't even be bothered to create an original piece of music? Must be very early in development. Well, the three main Prime games were stellar in my opinion, so it's good news.

For now, though, I'm more excited for the 3DS game, the gameplay looked neat.
 

Vigormortis

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Cowabungaa said:
Retro has released the excellent new Donkey Kong games actually, so yes they've definitely been releasing hits.
Mmm...while the new Dankey Kang games were fun, and well made, they weren't exactly something I'd been wowed over. I don't sit in my chair waxing fondly about the amazing experience that was Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze.
 

Cowabungaa

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Gizen said:
The thing is though that I'm not looking forward to all kinds of dialogue. I want my Metroid (Prime) games to be about exploring abandoned planets, uncovering ancient mysteries and the like, putting together the pieces of all kinds of happenstances. Tying that into a larger narrative like we saw in Prime 2 (with both the Federation and the Luminoth) is fine with me, but don't give me a large cast of characters crawling around in my Prime game. Being all lonesome is exactly what draws me towards Metroid. It's a large part of what makes it a unique series.
Vigormortis said:
Mmm...while the new Dankey Kang games were fun, and well made, they weren't exactly something I'd been wowed over. I don't sit in my chair waxing fondly about the amazing experience that was Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze.
I guess? I don't know, that seems to be a taste thing. My point was just that Retro has definitely been continuing doing high-quality work. It's a pity they're not working on Prime 4 in any case.
 

Gizen

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Cowabungaa said:
The thing is though that I'm not looking forward to all kinds of dialogue. I want my Metroid (Prime) games to be about exploring abandoned planets, uncovering ancient mysteries and the like, putting together the pieces of all kinds of happenstances. Tying that into a larger narrative like we saw in Prime 2 (with both the Federation and the Luminoth) is fine with me, but don't give me a large cast of characters crawling around in my Prime game. Being all lonesome is exactly what draws me towards Metroid. It's a large part of what makes it a unique series.
I feel like you can have a decently sized cast of characters and still maintain a sense of isolation at the same time, it's just a very difficult balance to pull off. I feel like Prime 3 was close, even if it wasn't quite there. I feel like to do it right, you'd need more characters who are neutral towards Samus. Not enemies, but not allies either. Rival bounty hunters perhaps. Similar to Hunters, but far fewer of them appearing far less frequently but having a much more significant impact when they do. Like, take the three enemy bounty hunters from Prime 3, give them each one or two more appearances throughout the plot to build their character a bit better (or make the appearances they do have already longer and more in-depth), but cut out the interaction with the GFed so they're the only other characters you meet. Like an oasis of another person to meet with (who is an actual person and not just an exposition device like that Luminoth jackass in Prime 2) in an otherwise lonely journey. Or hell, even do it like in Super Metroid, where you can have other characters to interact with, but done entirely in silence and through action, getting attached to those friendly animals despite not a word being exchanged. My mind instantly goes to something like Journey, where you spend most of the game alone but then suddenly every once in a while you see another person and it's a big freaking deal even though you can't actually communicate with them in words. And now I'm just rambling... Point is, I'd like to see more characters than just Samus but striking that balance of having an actual cast while maintaining a sense of isolation is hard.
 

Cowabungaa

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Gizen said:
Point is, I'd like to see more characters than just Samus but striking that balance of having an actual cast while maintaining a sense of isolation is hard.
You hit the nail on the head there; that's really hard. I mean, I suppose I'm not against it if you put it like you do. Fleeting encounters as it were, to maybe even bring home the feeling of isolation even more. Bloodborne did that well, going by what I saw. But as you say; that's really hard. And with a new team working on this I'd rather err on the safe side of caution.
 

Hawki

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Gizen said:
Hell, the fusion suit as a whole didn't really appeal to me. I appreciate the attempt to do something different with her design but I just felt like the fusion suit specifically was such an ugly design.
I'm a bit more generous towards the Fusion Suit. I wouldn't want it to be Samus's de facto suit, but I feel it suits its game well - new look, sense of comparative vulnerability (since there's far less armour on the thing), etc.

Gizen said:
That said, I do feel like you can do a Metroidvania style setting with predominantly human enemies. Afterall, the setting of Fusion was a human built space station. Just like, swap out some of the aliens for human-controlled/piloted mechs, replace generic space pirates with generic GFed, keep some of the lesser aliens as pests or vermin who've infested some regions of the area, and bam you're good to go.
I'd be onboard with that if the time could be taken for Samus to reflect that she's still killing fellow human beings,* not to mention that she was part of the Federation Police. Unfortunately, the idea of Samus giving introspection doesn't seem to go down well post-Other M, and even Fusion cops flak for her retrospectives. If Samus is to go up against the Federation, I'd rather that be done justice, than have her be portrayed as completely amoral.

*And other aliens...or something. Seriously, am I the only one perturbed how the Federation seems to be the "humans only club," despite early manual art and the manga establishing that multiple species are (or were) part of the Federation? Heck, even Other M appears to have shifted Federation HQ from Daiban to Earth.

Cowabungaa said:
You hit the nail on the head there; that's really hard. I mean, I suppose I'm not against it if you put it like you do. Fleeting encounters as it were, to maybe even bring home the feeling of isolation even more.
Gizen said:
Point is, I'd like to see more characters than just Samus but striking that balance of having an actual cast while maintaining a sense of isolation is hard.
-BioShock
-Dead Space
-Diablo
-Doom 3
-Fallout 3
-Halo 3: ODST
-Resident Evil 1/REmake
-Resident Evil 2
-Resident Evil 3: Nemesis
-Resident Evil Zero
-Resident Evil Code: Veronica

That's just a list of games I've played off the top of my head that have strong senses of isolation while also maintaining dialogue/characters, even if said dialogue/characters isn't always the greatest. It might be hard, but it's been done a lot. I might argue that dialogue/characters can help a sense of isolation because it gives you a sense of contrast between being on one's lonesome, and engaging in human contact. Even the buddy system of RE Zero maintained the isolation feel.
 

InflatableHippo

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Veldie said:
Hawki said:
ccggenius12 said:
Now all they need to do is announce a New F-Zero, and I'll blindly purchase whatever horrible device they tell me to.
I see your F-Zero and raise you Advance Wars, Golden Sun, and a proper (key word: proper) Star Fox game.
*takes out wallet and throws all his money at screen* GIVE ME A NEW ADVANCE WARS
Advance wars has done all it can in terms of gameplay as is. IS would have to do what they did with DoR and remake a whole new gameplay sytem around the CO's. I mean they COULD make something new but I doubt it would be on par or better than in the past games.

As for GS, Dark Dawn was ok but felt lackluster compared to the first 2. Plus there was the whole DD undersold and 'may' get its 4th game only if its to get more Switch sales.
 

SirSullymore

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InflatableHippo said:
Veldie said:
Hawki said:
ccggenius12 said:
Now all they need to do is announce a New F-Zero, and I'll blindly purchase whatever horrible device they tell me to.
I see your F-Zero and raise you Advance Wars, Golden Sun, and a proper (key word: proper) Star Fox game.
*takes out wallet and throws all his money at screen* GIVE ME A NEW ADVANCE WARS
Advance wars has done all it can in terms of gameplay as is. IS would have to do what they did with DoR and remake a whole new gameplay sytem around the CO's. I mean they COULD make something new but I doubt it would be on par or better than in the past games.

As for GS, Dark Dawn was ok but felt lackluster compared to the first 2. Plus there was the whole DD undersold and 'may' get its 4th game only if its to get more Switch sales.
Okay, how about Battalion Wars 3? Eh? Eh?....I'll see myself out.
 

Bernzz

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Words cannot describe how into this I am (as well as the remake of Metroid II for 3DS). The first Prime is my all time favourite game.

I hope this is what the endings of Prime 3 and Federation Force were hinting at.