Microsoft Sued for Locking Out Third Party Memory Cards

[PsiMatrix]

Today, Datel announced that it is suing Microsoft for unlawfully reducing competition in the memory card market.

That's rich coming from a company that has enjoyed years of making numerous peripherals off several systems without paying any of their owners a dime.

And it's only the memory card market on the 360. And I've been using my 4Gb USB stick to play various media without a single problem (couple of TV shows and a movie).

However I think Microsoft should allow for third party accessory's.

They do; there's the controllers, battery pack kits, media remotes, steering wheels, arcade sticks, hard drives, faceplates and more.

Less jumping to conclusions people.

I second this motion (less jumping to conclusions)!

 

[nezroy]

The really funny thing is that they could have handled this in a completely legitimate, "excusable" manner that would have held up just fine in an anti-trust court. They could have simply updated it to USE no more than 512mb on any memory stick present in the system, regardless of its maximum capacity. They could easily chalk that up to compatibility/testing limitations and concerns, while simultaneously making it pointless to buy a Datel memory stick without having to outright block it.

I mean, geez, at least be smart about it.

 

[Treblaine]

It was THEIR product until they sold it to me. I didn't rent it, I don't have to return it after a certain period, it is MINE. Copyright and patent laws stop me duplicating it but shouldn't stop me doing anything to it.

Now a service like XBL does have reasonable and legal terms of service, but something like memory capacity has nothing directly to do with the proper running of XBL so they have no justification to ban them for using Datel memory cards or anything else.

You have use of the 360 as is. You do not have the right to mod it. If you do they can ban you from their services. Same as if you mod it in any way you void your warranty. It is all in the eula hence why modders are now banned from XBL. Also you are not making money off it. That is why people can make free fan mods and get away with it under fair use. If you try to sell a fan mod then companies can sue the crap out of you.
Datel is making money off of another companies item without written permission.
They do not stand a chance in this lawsuit.

We all have the right to mod it. That may exclude one from XBL Gold but due to the cheating aspect but Silver exclusion should only happen if Microsoft is being defrauded of thier digital sales (NOT fair use). Which I don't believe is the case. Though Microsoft has it's way of dealing with modders like having new games only playable on the latest console firmware update, an update that bricks modded consoles... until a cracked mod is made as we see with the software arms race on the hacked PSP platform and new updates from Sony.

But this isn't even about modding, this is about about an accessory. I have in fact seen third party accessories for the 360 sold all over the place because they in and of them self are NOT illegal.

I mean when in the hell as it EVER been illegal to "make money off of another companies (sic) item"? You mean I can't sell a hands-free mobile-phone cradle for a car unless I get permission and pay a fee to every single car manufacturer?

This is a free economy, I can do whatever is possible! The legal limits are ENTIRELY on the host platform to prevent monopolistic practices.

Of course this is only hardware, software goes into the area of copyright which is far more rigid. For example, it is my understanding there is code on the Xbox 360 hard-drive to allow it to interface with the 360. The hardware is easy and legal to duplicate and even enhance, but the software is copyrighted up the yah-zoo which is why unless there is some sort of special legal ruling it really is impossible for third party 360 Hard Drives to be sold simply for the software on them that is required.

I don't believe the same software limits apply to their Memory cards.

Datel are perfectly within their legal rights to sell accessories for the 360 and they don't have to pay a penny to Microsoft. The removable memory doesn't facilitate cheating as a 360 memory->USB adapter will allow the same saves to be edited. But that is only for increasing your gamerscore... which is lame. I see my achievements as personal victories, faking them has to be ultimate fail. Higher gamerscore earns you NOTHING, only bragging rights and is not anti-competitive for online games.

See, it's just not like the good-old-days when consoles where mostly offline with no patches or firmware updates, now hardware/firmware modding is a constant struggle between the hackers and the corporations.

And there is nothing illegal about hacking a PSP or DS so that you can emulate PC games like Quake, games that you legally own. Fair use, baby! Terms of service are JUST for service. Breaching TOS is NOT ILLEGAL and does NOT void your right of ownership, only voids any responsibility the manufacturer has to provide you service like XBL.

However, Microsoft has crossed a line here as they are not just raining on a Hackers party, they are locking out legitimate businesses as this case is entirely about sales to the "good" console owners who are running the latest firmware and obeying the Terms of Service. That IS anti-competitive, even if they were within the law in all the little steps up to that point.

 

[joystickjunki3]

Whether or not I like or approve of Microsoft's lockout on non-MS memory cards is beside the point; though I will say that I disagree w/ it.

However, is it unlawful? No. If the court decides that it is, then I'll just chalk that up on my "Disappointed in Humanity" column next to the nearly empty "Times Common Sense Prevailed."

 

[KB2A]

its dissapointing that microsoft is banning the hardware its really anti competitive

 

[Jaqen Hghar]

I'm with Microsoft on this all the way. Especially if what Wofiel says about this case is true.
And I bet it is.
If Datel still wants to earn money on the Xbox, I bet all they need to do is to remove the part of their memory cards which makes it work on a computer. Make them identical in use to the ones Microsoft makes themselves, just with a larger capacity. I bet that would fly well with Microsoft, and they would probably make them work again.

But even if they didn't this is fully OK. I hope Microsoft wins the case.
And this is not because I am a massive Microsoft fanboy or something. I just view this as it is. Microsoft have the right to do this. And they should, especially if the cards help piracy and cheating.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Man, is this Lawsuit November or something? Can't people learn to solve their differences the proper way?

Like, a street fight?

Hardly a better solution, even if you were being sarcastic.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Microsoft was founded on the idea that if you create something, you can be the sole vendor of that thing for as long as possible and have a near-perfect monopoly.

Now they are just expanding that to cover other electronic devices. What's the big surprise?

It's well-known that third-party cards usually suck, but most other game companies at least allow (tolerate) off-brand companies to develop alternatives for the customer. I don't see how keeping a third-party company from making memory cards affects piracy in ANY way (modders or pirates will use hard drives and writable discs instead of memory cards, anyhow), but this absolutely affects M$' ability to squeeze every last dollar out the consumer by forcing them to shop for cards at Microsoft and nowhere else.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

It was THEIR product until they sold it to me. I didn't rent it, I don't have to return it after a certain period, it is MINE. Copyright and patent laws stop me duplicating it but shouldn't stop me doing anything to it.

Now a service like XBL does have reasonable and legal terms of service, but something like memory capacity has nothing directly to do with the proper running of XBL so they have no justification to ban them for using Datel memory cards or anything else.

You have use of the 360 as is. You do not have the right to mod it. If you do they can ban you from their services. Same as if you mod it in any way you void your warranty. It is all in the eula hence why modders are now banned from XBL. Also you are not making money off it. That is why people can make free fan mods and get away with it under fair use. If you try to sell a fan mod then companies can sue the crap out of you.
Datel is making money off of another companies item without written permission.
They do not stand a chance in this lawsuit.

Maybe not, but there's been an unspoken agreement for years now that companies like Datel can make accessories for systems they don't own. None of the main video game companies seem to openly endorse this, but up until now I hadn't heard of any of them being strictly against it. I mean, goodness sakes, I've seen 3rd-party memory cards around since the birth of memory cards themselves!

It's sort of like if all of a sudden anyone who went a mile over the speed limit or jaywalked got a ticket. It's technically illegal, but people have been doing it for years and it's totally commonplace.

Legally they might be in the wrong, but third-party support seems pretty essential (to me) in keeping a system alive. All those useless system decoration options and pointless crap keep shallow people paying attention to the console, and if a company refuses to provide a decent-sized memory card, they should have the decency to allow somebody else to make it and simply charge a small fee.

 

[Doug]

Yeah, Microsoft may be able to ban people, but ban third-party hardware? Now that's just getting greedy.

Indeed. They'll have a harder time justifying that, given they have a monopoly over memory card units. And if US law is like UK and EU law, monopolys are a big no-no

 

[Brotherofwill]

Man, is this Lawsuit November or something? Can't people learn to solve their differences the proper way?

Like, a street fight?

With knives?

I was thinking more like the end of Rocky 5

I was thinking more like the end of West Side Story.

Oh yeah, I really didn't know the 360 still has memory cards. Why doesn't it save on the hard-drive?

 

[Dudeakoff]

The "it's there hardware" argument doesn't work because they sent out the message that 3rd party memory cards are allowed by allowing them to work on the hardware in the first place. When a company starts producing those cards (which costs a lot of money) and Microsoft turns around and makes them unusable, that's sabotaging a company.

Oh and piracy? I thought they just burned games onto disks and put them in a modded xbox?

Cheating in online games should be prevented via a very good anti-cheat system (seeing as the option of dedicated servers on Xbox is made out to be stupid for some reason).

 

[mooncalf]

Man, is this Lawsuit November or something? Can't people learn to solve their differences the proper way?

Like, a street fight?

With knives?

That Fires Lasers?

And irradiated baseball bats?

That Fires Tomahawks?

 

[Volucer]

While I don't agree with what Microsoft's done, it is pretty depressing to look at the news forum and see every other story be "this person/group is suing so-and-so", seems to be that suing people is a new trend, and from the looks of it is mostly unfounded (eg. PS3 gamer who tried to sue because he was banned for being a douche online)

 

[TZer0]

This sounds like something Mac would do, though I can't say I'm surprised Microsoft would as well.

MS has done it before, Apple is doing it at the moment (in a smaller scale).

 

[Georgeman]

Yay! Monopoly: Microsoft Edition Revision 666!

[sub]and[/sub]

Microsoft: Happily killing competition ever since the 1980s.

It's good to see that Microsoft hasn't changed after all. ^_^
/extreme sarcasm

 

[Ben Legend]

Man, is this Lawsuit November or something? Can't people learn to solve their differences the proper way?

Like, a street fight?

With knives?

I was thinking more like the end of Rocky 5

But with lightsabers? =D

On a serious note... what the hell microssoft, I think they're on a road trip to piss off as many people as possible.

 

[scarletfox]

Cheating in online games should be prevented via a very good anti-cheat system (seeing as the option of dedicated servers on Xbox is made out to be stupid for some reason).

and yet, you still see cheaters on XBL... watching people with aimbots in FPS games (like cod4, waw, mw2, etc...) is awesome. >.>