Microsoft Sued for Locking Out Third Party Memory Cards

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

True but if they get this petty every small business that doesn't want to make a deal with a big business can cry foul. Again this company is not that special, they'll just have to buckle down and do what they should have done to begin with, business.

What's more petty? Microsoft making it the 3rd parties responsibility, while raking in money on proprietary harddrives and XBL subscriptions? Or a smaller 3rd party hardware manufacturer seeking business elsewhere because Microsoft's business practices are simply too erratic and shady?

They didn't hold them responsible for anything they just decided to fix the problem themselves.
If this company found the rules too harsh they could have left the system alone and went towards the PS3 or Wii or even the PC if they are that hell bent.

There are laws prohibiting companies from certain practices, such as predatory pricing that cut competition, the market in the US is not a free for all you know

Like I said before Microsoft didn't remove competition.

hmm, lets see, other brands were competing with Microsoft's cards...Microsoft blocked them out from making competing brands that can operate on the 360.

How is that not removing competition?

They blocked it because it was causing problems.

 

[Amnestic]

True but if they get this petty every small business that doesn't want to make a deal with a big business can cry foul. Again this company is not that special, they'll just have to buckle down and do what they should have done to begin with, business.

What's more petty? Microsoft making it the 3rd parties responsibility, while raking in money on proprietary harddrives and XBL subscriptions? Or a smaller 3rd party hardware manufacturer seeking business elsewhere because Microsoft's business practices are simply too erratic and shady?

They didn't hold them responsible for anything they just decided to fix the problem themselves.
If this company found the rules too harsh they could have left the system alone and went towards the PS3 or Wii or even the PC if they are that hell bent.

There are laws prohibiting companies from certain practices, such as predatory pricing that cut competition, the market in the US is not a free for all you know

Like I said before Microsoft didn't remove competition.

hmm, lets see, other brands were competing with Microsoft's cards...Microsoft blocked them out from making competing brands that can operate on the 360.

How is that not removing competition?

They blocked it because it was causing problems.

The 'problem' being that no one was buying the shitty MS one because the Datel one was better?

 

[Aitruis]

GUYS. This was allowing easy savegame exploits by using a normal memory card which is easily usable by a computer. Granted it's still possible with Microsoft's hardware, just exceedingly more difficult and you're voiding a warranty or two.

If they just functioned like normal memory cards, I assume Microsoft wouldn't have bothered with it at all and let them go about their merry way.

Just please, think before you jump on the "Z0mG M$ IS BAD GUIZ" bandwagon.

Most of the people that want to hack usually don't care about warranties. And if you ask me, a *possible* exploit that can likely be solved in a number of other ways shouldn't give MS the green light to underwrite free market capitalism.

Granted, I have a unique bias. I have studied in-depth what can happen if a company is extremely malevolent and wishes to own an entire market. I'm not saying MS can or will do that, but it is a market possibility that I personally think should be prevented.

The fact is that competition like that drives new technology and innovation up and prices down.

 

[B4D 9R4MM3R]

This all stinks of monopoly (not the game). Datel may just have a valid case on their hands.

 

[Danpascooch]

True but if they get this petty every small business that doesn't want to make a deal with a big business can cry foul. Again this company is not that special, they'll just have to buckle down and do what they should have done to begin with, business.

What's more petty? Microsoft making it the 3rd parties responsibility, while raking in money on proprietary harddrives and XBL subscriptions? Or a smaller 3rd party hardware manufacturer seeking business elsewhere because Microsoft's business practices are simply too erratic and shady?

They didn't hold them responsible for anything they just decided to fix the problem themselves.
If this company found the rules too harsh they could have left the system alone and went towards the PS3 or Wii or even the PC if they are that hell bent.

There are laws prohibiting companies from certain practices, such as predatory pricing that cut competition, the market in the US is not a free for all you know

Like I said before Microsoft didn't remove competition.

hmm, lets see, other brands were competing with Microsoft's cards...Microsoft blocked them out from making competing brands that can operate on the 360.

How is that not removing competition?

They blocked it because it was causing problems.

Do you mean actual problems, or like, reducing profits for them problem?

 

[Amnestic]

MS was sued and lost over including anti-virus and web browsers in its operating system...

Really? Please tell me what Internet Explorer is, then.

A piece of shite rubbish?

 

[DonPauliani]

Wanna see my surprised face?

 

[Flos]

I don't quite understand what you're all so uppity about. Yes, Microsoft is being somewhat irrational, but the 360 happens to be their product. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do with their product what they will? If they don't want third party contributors profiting from them, who are you to tell them no?

Does Datel even give Microsoft a cut of its profit? They're making money off of Microsoft's product.

"Oooooh! Microsoft's monopolized things befooore!" Yeah, making sure only you can benefit from your product is not quite the same as using your money to buy out/crush the competition. The other companies can still make memory cards to other game systems.

Apple does the same damn thing with iTunes/iMerchandise.

 

[Amnestic]

I don't quite understand what you're all so uppity about. Yes, Microsoft is being somewhat irrational, but the 360 happens to be their product. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do with their product what they will? If they don't want third party contributors profiting from them, who are you to tell them no?

Does Datel even give Microsoft a cut of its profit? They're making money off of Microsoft's product.

"Oooooh! Microsoft's monopolized things befooore!" Yeah, making sure only you can benefit from your product is not quite the same as using your money to buy out/crush the competition. The other companies can still make memory cards to other game systems.

Apple does the same damn thing with iTunes/iMerchandise.

So when Microsoft bans all games for the 360 that aren't published by them, you're going to be A-OK with that because it's their hardware even though you now have a huge pile of disks which are essentially worth nothing?

If you want your consumer rights trodden all over, hell be my guest, but I quite enjoy the idea that I can do what I like with my box of electronics as long as I understand I may void the usage of the online component if I do so, in the case of modding it and the like.

 

[Lyri]

I've never even seen these cards in a store...

 

[Motiv_]

It was THEIR product until they sold it to me. I didn't rent it, I don't have to return it after a certain period, it is MINE. Copyright and patent laws stop me duplicating it but shouldn't stop me doing anything to it.

Now a service like XBL does have reasonable and legal terms of service, but something like memory capacity has nothing directly to do with the proper running of XBL so they have no justification to ban them for using Datel memory cards or anything else.

I do agree with what you have to say, but I'm afraid to say that you don't own the 360, microsoft owns it, and everything on it. They just let you use it. Using your Xbox 360 console is a privilage, not a right. It's very much like a car or house. You payed good money for it, and you are technically the owner, but you can't stick 4 extra rooms on your house without a permit, and you can't speed in a car or drive it drunk.

I do agree that Microsoft are being assholes about the whole thing, but it's their console so they can do with it what they please.

 

[Double A]

Maybe if Datel classifies it's memory card as 2nd party.

Wait, people actually buy memory cards for the 360?

 

[SilentHunter7]

I do agree with what you have to say, but I'm afraid to say that you don't own the 360, microsoft owns it, and everything on it. They just let you use it. Using your Xbox 360 console is a privilage, not a right. It's very much like a car or house. You payed good money for it, and you are technically the owner, but you can't stick 4 extra rooms on your house without a permit, and you can't speed in a car or drive it drunk.

I do agree that Microsoft are being assholes about the whole thing, but it's their console so they can do with it what they please.

Your analogy is flawed. When you buy a house, or car and you paid off your loan, YOU OWN IT. The manufacturer, or contractor retains ZERO ownership once money has changed hands. Speed limits, and Building codes are state and federal laws. They have nothing to do with the previous owner.

If it were as you say, Ford could confiscate your car if you buy Firestone tires, or 21st Century could prohibit you from installing a new sink from Kohl.

When you buy a 360, it's yours to do what you want. You're not renting it, you're not leasing it, you're BUYING it. Once ownership transfers to you, you can do whatever you please with it as long as it doesn't break the law.

 

[Wofiel]

Most of the people that want to hack usually don't care about warranties. And if you ask me, a *possible* exploit that can likely be solved in a number of other ways shouldn't give MS the green light to underwrite free market capitalism.

Granted, I have a unique bias. I have studied in-depth what can happen if a company is extremely malevolent and wishes to own an entire market. I'm not saying MS can or will do that, but it is a market possibility that I personally think should be prevented.

The fact is that competition like that drives new technology and innovation up and prices down.

But that's the thing, it's not about wiping out the competition. If these were memory cards that didn't have removable storage, and only increased the capacity, I don't think Microsoft would have minded, like the Fanatec steering wheels, 3rd party controllers or microphones etc.. Added onto that, Datel almost specifically markets this device to those intending to cheat, as seen on a site owned by them.

There's no way to stop this method of cheating without resorting to stopping the offending hardware. There's no way to differentiate between a saved game copied from another drive/memory card and a saved game uploaded onto the internet with the game completed.

 

[Treblaine]

It was THEIR product until they sold it to me. I didn't rent it, I don't have to return it after a certain period, it is MINE. Copyright and patent laws stop me duplicating it but shouldn't stop me doing anything to it.

Now a service like XBL does have reasonable and legal terms of service, but something like memory capacity has nothing directly to do with the proper running of XBL so they have no justification to ban them for using Datel memory cards or anything else.

I do agree with what you have to say, but I'm afraid to say that you don't own the 360, microsoft owns it, and everything on it. They just let you use it. Using your Xbox 360 console is a privilage, not a right. It's very much like a car or house. You payed good money for it, and you are technically the owner, but you can't stick 4 extra rooms on your house without a permit, and you can't speed in a car or drive it drunk.

I do agree that Microsoft are being assholes about the whole thing, but it's their console so they can do with it what they please.

Grrr, shush yourself.

Ask any freaking judge if a Microsoft employee STOLE my Xbox 360 if that employee was within their rights to take it? NO! Of course not, it was sold to me, I have the receipt from the store where I got it. It. is. MINE. Under English Common Law - which I believe the USA has an equivalent - I could set it on fire if I wanted to. Hell I could open it up and hold seminars on how it works but only patent/copyright law would stop me making a complete clone.

The ONLY power Microsoft has is to refuse to acknowledge warranty, like if I opened up the device. But that is just an agreement for a service.

You can't add more rooms on your house because of ZONING LAWS and how the council or whatever local authority don't want the place turning into a shanty town of unsafe buildings. And that is a FREAKING GOVERNMENT! Elected officials, the police have to do as they say. Microsoft are just a freaking corporation!

But all that is beside the point, this is not a case about personal ownership, this is a case of anti-competitive practices and Microsoft getting slammed for it. This is not about the little people like you and me but the big player pushing the medium sized player out into the cold.

 

[Wicky_42]

MS was sued and lost over including anti-virus and web browsers in its operating system...

Really? Please tell me what Internet Explorer is, then.

Windows 7 'E'. In Europe it comes without internet explorer, precisely because it was just being tied to the OS at the expense of competition.

Here's a source I found instantly on google:
http://www.techdigest.tv/2009/06/no_bundled_inte.html
_____________

...I'm afraid to say that you don't own the 360, microsoft owns it, and everything on it. They just let you use it. Using your Xbox 360 console is a privilage, not a right. It's very much like a car or house. You payed good money for it, and you are technically the owner, but you can't stick 4 extra rooms on your house without a permit, and you can't speed in a car or drive it drunk.

I do agree that Microsoft are being assholes about the whole thing, but it's their console so they can do with it what they please.

Seriously? You don't own your 360? Did you sign a EULA or something when you purchased it? Bullshit. Services and software, yeah, those are 'used with permission', but as you pointed out "it's very much like a car or house". Only you then go wrong in your argument - you own the car/house, and you can use it as much as you like, you can put on rims (on the house, that is /paint it/restructure the internals/upgrade and replace components etc etc. Sure, building more house requires planning permission, which is perfectly reasonable for so many different reasons (architecture student here) and breaking the law in a car is illegal, but you can't reasonably compare that to using a games console that you purchased.

FYI, it's not illegal to use a games console, not even whilst inebriated, and it also doesn't require planning permission and/or local council consent.
__________

I don't quite understand what you're all so uppity about. Yes, Microsoft is being somewhat irrational, but the 360 happens to be their product. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do with their product what they will? If they don't want third party contributors profiting from them, who are you to tell them no?

Does Datel even give Microsoft a cut of its profit? They're making money off of Microsoft's product.

"Oooooh! Microsoft's monopolized things befooore!" Yeah, making sure only you can benefit from your product is not quite the same as using your money to buy out/crush the competition. The other companies can still make memory cards to other game systems.

Apple does the same damn thing with iTunes/iMerchandise.

So, following that logic, MS could make it so that only MS-certified programs could run on its operating system and you wouldn't have a problem with that, right? After all, it's their operating system that people are making programs for to make money - what right do they have to do that?! Lazy parasites! They could always purchase a license to allow their program to run, couldn't they? That would be so much more reasonable, wouldn't it?

Then, of course, only certified MS hardware would work with your PC as well - I mean, what do all those companies think they are doing, making hardware designed to work with Windows? Without Windows none of it would work! Well, at least the majority of the market. So they should have to pay MS dues for the privilege of running under their OS!

Yeah, that's a real logical course of argument you took there Flos.

 

[Motiv_]

Grrr, shush yourself.

Ask any freaking judge if a Microsoft employee STOLE my Xbox 360 if that employee was within their rights to take it? NO! Of course not, it was sold to me, I have the receipt from the store where I got it. It. is. MINE. Under English Common Law - which I believe the USA has an equivalent - I could set it on fire if I wanted to. Hell I could open it up and hold seminars on how it works but only patent/copyright law would stop me making a complete clone.

The ONLY power Microsoft has is to refuse to acknowledge warranty, like if I opened up the device. But that is just an agreement for a service.

You can't add more rooms on your house because of ZONING LAWS and how the council or whatever local authority don't want the place turning into a shanty town of unsafe buildings. And that is a FREAKING GOVERNMENT! Elected officials, the police have to do as they say. Microsoft are just a freaking corporation!

But all that is beside the point, this is not a case about personal ownership, this is a case of anti-competitive practices and Microsoft getting slammed for it. This is not about the little people like you and me but the big player pushing the medium sized player out into the cold.

Yeah, I posted that last night, and then saw the Nintendo thread where they weren't allowed to lock out third party flash cards. So I came back here to edit/delete this post, and my internet imploded. I apologize, I was wrong, you were right, yada yada. While I still can't agree with you "Owning" the 360, I now know that Microsoft has no right to rule out competitors memory cards.