Microsoft Vows To Fight Government Spying Via Kinect

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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Microsoft Vows To Fight Government Spying Via Kinect


Microsoft said it would "aggressively challenge" any attempt by the government to use the Xbox One's Kinect to "spy" on users.

One of the biggest concerns of Microsoft's Xbox One was the fact that it requires an "always-on" web cam, in the form of Kinect 2.0. You can see how the prospect of Microsoft constantly "watching you" is a legitimate concern people could have, and given the recent PRISM [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)] fiasco, there is certainly a very unnerving possibility that the government could use the technology to "spy" on users. In order to ease our minds, Microsoft has assured users that it would "aggressively challenge" in court any attempt by the government to use the Kinect to gather information.

"Absent a new law, we don't believe the government has the legal authority to compel us or any other company that makes products with cameras and microphones to start collecting voice and video data."

The news comes as Microsoft fights allegations that the N.S.A has been able to gather user data from Skype, Outlook and Hotmail with Microsoft's consent. Microsoft denied the allegations, and called on the US goverment to "share publicly more complete information about how we handle national security requests for customer information" [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/126058-Microsoft-Wants-To-Tell-How-It-Handles-National-Security-Requests].

"We'd aggressively challenge in court any attempts to try and force us to do so," said Microsoft, in response to the possibility of government forcing it to use the Kinect as a spy-camera. "If a government wants customer data - including for national security purposes - it needs to follow applicable legal process, meaning it must serve us with a court order for content or subpoena for account information."

It's a little-known fact that the Kinect, which Microsoft insists is integral to the Xbox One experience, can actually be turned completely off [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124447-Xbox-Ones-Kinect-Can-Actually-Be-Turned-Off].

Source: Official Xbox Magazine [http://www.oxm.co.uk/58530/microsoft-will-aggressively-challenge-any-government-attempt-to-spy-through-kinect/]

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Somethingfake

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Oct 22, 2008
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Nope. Still not going to buy it, think of buying it, or accept it as a gift. Move on Microsoft, I'm sticking to my pc which I can trust.
 

Kahani

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Steven Bogos said:
the prospect of Microsoft constantly "watching you"

...

Microsoft said it would "aggressively challenge" any attempt by the government
I'm not sure it would actually be possible for them to miss the point any more than that. People are not worried about the NSA using kinect to spy on them, they're worried about Microsoft using kinect to spy on them. Hell, they even admit they're doing it right here; after all, they wouldn't need to challenge attempts to get data from them if they didn't have said data in the first place. Having Microsoft assure people that they absolutely are going to spy on them hardly seems like the best way to respond to customer concerns about spying.
 

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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Somethingfake said:
Nope. Still not going to buy it, think of buying it, or accept it as a gift. Move on Microsoft, I'm sticking to my pc which I can trust.
Which runs Windows, which is manufactured by Microsoft...
 

CriticalMiss

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Jan 18, 2013
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It would be so much easier for them to fight government spying by not making the Kinect mandatory. Are they going to do that? No.

Steven Bogos said:
Somethingfake said:
Nope. Still not going to buy it, think of buying it, or accept it as a gift. Move on Microsoft, I'm sticking to my pc which I can trust.
Which runs Windows, which is manufactured by Microsoft...
There's an app for that. http://www.linux.org/
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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It's cool if anyone wants to buy one, I can share with you my designs to render the Kinect unable to perform it's functions. Without damaging the console I might add.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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That's a blatant lie. The Kinect as a device is actually collecting your metadata. That's not a conspiracy, that's what the thing does in order to do it's job. The official Xlive ToS already poses a great privacy risk, and all those anti-terrorist acts like The Patriot Act allow the US government to bypass the 4th amendment and just ask Microsoft for Kinect metadata without a warrant. On top of that Microsoft's been working with NSA on Prism since 2007. Anyone who believes this is quite simply a brainless fuckin' idiot. No point in dancing around that.
 

Ferisar

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CriticalMiss said:
It would be so much easier for them to fight government spying by not making the Kinect mandatory. Are they going to do that? No.

Steven Bogos said:
Somethingfake said:
Nope. Still not going to buy it, think of buying it, or accept it as a gift. Move on Microsoft, I'm sticking to my pc which I can trust.
Which runs Windows, which is manufactured by Microsoft...
There's an app for that. http://www.linux.org/
Going out on a limb and saying that most people who prefer a PC over the Xbox don't actually use linux, but it's not really hypocritical to prefer one product over the other from the same company >_>

So I guess that doesn't change anything! Yaaay!

OT:
Neat. I mean, it doesn't really hurt them in saying this, but I doubt it's going to win points for anything. Hell, it hardly has anything to do with the Xbox, really.
 

Velociferocks

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Kahani said:
People are not worried about the NSA using kinect to spy on them, they're worried about Microsoft using kinect to spy on them.
Why? Why would they in any way or reason want too spy on people in their home. Why is this such a big problem for the Xbox but not for the thousands of smartphones/laptops/tablets that are out there (or why not the Wii U), which pretty much always come with an inbuilt camera and microphone. It would probably be just as easy to remotely access the cam or mic in an android phone as in the Kinect.
 

CorvusFerreum

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Jun 13, 2011
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hehe, yeah.... right.

Microsoft contributed to PRISM. They might claim to not give out information without legaly binding order, but I don't see any reason why we could trust them on that. Plus: If they got a legally binding order they would have to give out this information and I don't really think the NSA would have all that much trouble getting those orders. They admitted giving out information and data on over 30000 user accounts. I don't see why I should trust them with keeping access to that camera denied to gouvernment agencies. It's the safer bet to just not give them the chance to hand it out.
Plus: They most certainly will use it for targeted advertising and fun like that. Another reason not to bother.

oggebogge91 said:
Kahani said:
Steven Bogos said:
People are not worried about the NSA using kinect to spy on them, they're worried about Microsoft using kinect to spy on them.
Why? Why would they in any way or reason want too spy on people in their home. Why is this such a big problem for the Xbox but not for the thousands of smartphones/laptops/tablets that are out there (or why not the Wii U), which pretty much always come with an inbuilt camera and microphone. It would probably be just as easy to remotely access the cam or mic in an android phone as in the Kinect.
The reason: Collecting meta data to use in targeted advertising. And it's not okay on phones and laptops as well. I dissabled what I could on my phone and deactivated my microphone and webcam on my laptop in the hardware manager and activate them when needed. I also taped the camera for good measure. And I know enough people who did this too. I have no problem giving out information and data if I have a benefit from it. I just want to know when I'm giving out what data and I want to be able to opt out at any time. That's somewhat illusionary, but I don't see why one should try to at least partly get there.
 

kael013

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Jun 12, 2010
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Steven Bogos said:
Somethingfake said:
Nope. Still not going to buy it, think of buying it, or accept it as a gift. Move on Microsoft, I'm sticking to my pc which I can trust.
Which runs Windows, which is manufactured by Microsoft...
But which does NOT spy on you with a webcam. That's the key part.

OT: I was never worried about the government using Kinect to spy on me (even though the Patriot Act allows them to use MS as a data source), I was more concerned about [i/]Microsoft[/i] spying on me. Didn't they say somewhere they would use Kinect info to tailor ads to the consumer or something like that? I'm sorry, but companies trying to get into my head in order to sell me stuff is a good way to make me run away from their products as fast as possible.
 

idarkphoenixi

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May 2, 2011
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It'll "vow" to fight kinect spying but don't worry, they'll still hand over all the other information such as Emails, Skype calls, Chat logs, Bing searches ect...

But the Kinect, THAT'S where they draw the line!

In case it's not blatantly obvious at this point, I'm calling bullshit on the 'word' of Microsoft (unintended pun). I've been told before that a company takes 'X' "very seriously" only to turn their back the moment they think nobody is watching.
 

Infernal Lawyer

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Jan 28, 2013
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And yet you're still going to spy on us for marketing purposes. Wait a second, what's...?
Steven Bogos said:
It's a little-known fact that the Kinect, which Microsoft insists is integral to the Xbox One experience, can actually be turned completely off [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124447-Xbox-Ones-Kinect-Can-Actually-Be-Turned-Off].
Okay, now i know that I'm not always going to be watched all day, but the fact that I knew so many horrible things about the Xbone and not this single redeeming feature until now says a lot about Microsoft's marketing department. They really need to stop being so fucking vague about everything other than confirming or backpedaling on their shitty features/practices.

In any case, not sure I believe Microsoft. They were already part of Prism, and people were already being spied on via Skype, so I'm not sure how much I trust them not to expand that to the cam.

Then again, they ARE apparently putting pressure on the government to be more revealing about their security...

Still not getting an Xbone, but I'll keep my eye on them. Plus, I'm hardly going to toss out my PC in disgust XD
 

josemlopes

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I dont get what the camera has to do with spying, I mean spying text messages makes sense as people comunicate through that, I guess they can spy Skype calls but to think that they will watch you sleep? Why would they want to do that?

Even Microsoft doesnt need it to collect data for advertisements, its not like they will try to sell a t-shirt depending on what t-shirt color you usually wear. They only need to track where you go in your console or in your browser, thats what actually matters.

Its like having a camera pointing to the driver in a car and then also having a gps in that car, the gps will give a lot more important information rather then a camera that at best shows you what the person is wearing.

I just dont know why people are so worked up on this, whatever they want to do they can already do it and I bet they dont care about what you are afraid they start doing. The NSA could see your emails and calls, its not a camera in one room that will give them whatever information they dont already have.
 

V8 Ninja

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Yes, Microsoft will "Aggressively Challenge" any government using the Kinnect to spy on citizens because Microsoft will be the ones doing the spying.

That's the basic underlying message I'm getting from Microsoft's actions.
 

Genocidicles

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Sep 13, 2012
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I'm not worried about the government spying on me with Kinect.

I'm worried about Microsoft spying on me with it for marketing purposes, which is about a hundred times more likely to happen.

Why would the government care about your mood, or heart rate while watching tv? Companies though? That's a godsend for them! They can tell what kind of ads make you happy, which ones you respond to on a level that's beneficial for them, so they can shove more of their obnoxious advertising in your face.

Christ... at least when the government spies on you it's all done in the pursuit of safety. When a company spies on you it's all just so they can line their pockets.
 

Teoes

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Jun 1, 2010
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008Zulu said:
It's cool if anyone wants to buy one, I can share with you my designs to render the Kinect unable to perform it's functions. Without damaging the console I might add.
It's a towel, isn't it. Because I'd just chuck a towel or blanket over the thing.

Either that or turning it around to face the corner? "Naughty Kinect! You sit there and think about what you've done!"
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

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Jun 21, 2009
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Microsoft vows to fights government spying via Kinect. Because they reserve that right for themselves.

Your lies, Microsoft, transparent they are.
 

Carnagath

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To be fair, it would be rather silly to not buy the Xbone due to privacy concerns, when you have no guarantee, and pretty much already know, that everything you do online on any device is trackable and accessible by people you don't want nor gave permission to. As for the Kinect, it should be the least of one's concerns. I don't think that any terrorist is dumb enough to do stuff in front of their Kinect, so I really doubt that it would be any intelligence agency's first source of valuable data. And no, I don't think Microsoft's gonna upload videos of you masturbating to femdom for the NSA to look at and frown upon. Since it can also be turned off to ease your paranoia, I don't think it's really a factor. There are many other, less silly reasons for not buying the damn thing, including (but not limited to) the fact that it supports about 5 countries worldwide, is a piece of shit and is probably gonna force its gimmick down your throat, while Kinect 1 can't even do menus correctly in many games, let alone meaningful gameplay. But yeah, it's perfect this time, Microsoft promised.
 
Mar 30, 2010
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It's not the spying aspect of the Kinect that I'm annoyed about, it's that Microsoft want me to pay £100 extra for a peripheral that I don't want and that by making it a mandatory piece of the console they've ensured that I can't even return the module to a Game store to try and get some of my money back.

There's a wonderful invention called gaffer tape for those who are paranoid about cameras. For those of us who aren't worried about the Kinect but just don't bloody want one on the other hand, well, there's always the PS4.