Microsoft Xbox needs to die.

PatrickXD

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Aug 13, 2009
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I'm not at all jealous of the mods. Heck, I have a PC version of Morrowind modded to damnation, and I've logged roughly 20 times as much on my xbox version!

But I do see your point, Microsoft do come across as 'money grubbing'. Maybe if they could justify why they do this, we would have more sympathy for them. As it stands I'm fairly apathetic about the situation. I can get my DLC on a free Xbox Live account or in store, and I stopped enjoying multiplayer enough to pay for it a while ago.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Aug 3, 2011
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I've had two....my last one went black and white. :)I'm fine with MS, shit happens and there are games that I enjoy. Also I am not forced to by 360, nor are you so you cant complain. As for games, there are some amazing games, but its down to the developers and not MS. Computer games have hardly changed since the PS1 wowed me with that Manta Ray demo....that was awesome. Yes graphics and physics have gotten better but the games are still the same. Dynasty Warrior games have improved since the PS2, battles are better and enemies more spread out....but i agree still got a way to go. We have huge games like Elder Scrolls and Fallout that have both story and huge worlds to explore. Then we have COD games that are all the same, just better graphics....and you do know when the new generation comes out, the COD games will still be the same just with nicer graphics. Not saying the are not fun to play, just that they havent evolved. I expected huge WW2 FPS, cities and atmosphere like the real thing. Freedom. Space. Excitement. Not more of the same with pretty graphics, Crysis 2 looked amazing, but still a corridor based shooter with the odd big area thrown in.

Mods. Wish we had more of those. Thought thats what we would have when consoles went online. Like if you made a certain wrestler, you could sell him online for a few MS points. Real community made marketplace. I did some modding on Morrowind back in the day and wished they released a version of Morrowind on 360 with the top 20 mods added to it. A "Mod" edition.

Re Updates. Thats just lazy developers taking advantage of the online aspect of a console. Like they did with PC. Some DLC I wonder is because it got finished late and thus had to ship the game without it due to deadlines. But then depending on the size and scale of a game, i expect Skyrim to have bugs, FPS not so much.

In the future things will get worst. New tech, prices to make games go up. Few companies will risk big bucks making original titles. Consoles want to be the centre of entertainment for the family instead of just playing games. TV, film rentals, music and the internet. I hate that.
 

Vkmies

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Yeah, I pretty much stopped buying Microsoft consoles. I have 3 original XboX's. All of them run whatever and whenever they want. Some games work, some dont, no matter the quality of the disc or antyhing like that. I also have one 360 that just stopped reading ANY discs. I decided to let microsoft keep their Boxes. I'm gonna keep my PC up to date and buy Nintendo and Sony consoles.
 

C2Ultima

Future sovereign of Oz
Nov 6, 2010
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I'm on my first Xbox, which is the redesigned one (I got it about a week after they announced it. No problems yet. I'm not sure why you're only singling out the Xbox and PC. Sony and Nintendo don't matter do they?
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

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Aug 5, 2009
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Thanks mate, just needed a reassuring post like this to remind me why I'm the only one of my friends who doesn't have one of the damn things. Microsoft gets too much of my money with windows. I'm not up for this kind of this crap.

That leaves Nintendo and Sony for my console purchases during 8th gen. However I don't like the Wii and I don't like touch screens so that leaves Sony. Maybe. If I'm going to spend a bunch of money, I might as well do it on a computer I can use for other things as well as gaming.

Console gaming hasn't appealed to me since the 6th generation to be honest...
 

pbteyeofharmony

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Mar 28, 2011
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To be fair, no console allows mods anymore. The PS3 conceivably could have, but it dropped OpenOS. It makes sense, from the developer's point of view. After all, a vibrant and active modding community (as exists for The Elder Scrolls series and the Civilization series) can significantly add life to a game. If a company makes money by selling you lots of games, why would they want you be able to play them longer? The XBox's restrictions on user-generated content makes sense from that perspective (even if it is greedy and wrong, which it is).

I agree on Live pricing. EITHER charge more money OR post ads. Thou shalt not do both of those. Though, to be fair, it isn't that hard to disable them (at least it wasn't. I'll have to check on that). As for technical issues, I'm with you. I've burned through 2 Xbox 360s, either with red rings or disc tray problems. Still have the fat old PS3 I got back in 2007.

If the Xbox dies out (which is unlikely but not impossible; compare the success of the PS2 to the mariginal non-failure of the PS3), I don't expect that the industry will suddenly get better. With fewer competitors, Sony and Nintendo will probably get worse. Robust competition is good for consumers, not producers. We should be hoping for MORE consoles, if anything. Hopefully console developers will realize they have to provide better service instead of technically superior products if they want to attract customers.
 

TPiddy

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I bought the original XBox 360, and I got 2 free replacements for the two RRoD's I incurred. I then bought an Elite with the Jasper chipset and have not had a problem since. 6 years of fantastic gaming experiences. My Wii is in my attic. And Sony can [email protected]#$k themselves if they think I'm spending another dollar on their overpriced shit. I actually have friends.
 

2fish

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On 360 number 3. I have moved away from it save for games like bayonetta, ninja gaiden, and perfect dark HD.

Got so pissed at it for it killing itself 2 months after the warranty. My PC may also have had issues (needed a new sound card and HD) but I could fix that with the help of a friend and not have to send it away thus saving me money.

I like the 360 controller save for the d pad. Otherwise I am loyal to no system. I follow the games. If bayonetta, ninja gaiden black, and perfect dark HD came out on the microwave and could use a good controller I would be there.

I tend to like my RPG?s on pc now that I have a pc that can run them. But that is countered by my spectacle fighters being on console.

FPS can be on the system that is best for them.


Also I got sick of paying for gold to play online.
 

Char-Nobyl

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Zeckt said:
I am now on my fourth xbox where my first 2 had RROD and third had trouble with the huge bar thing continously turning off and the dvd driver not closing properly. My fourth xbox is the limited gears 3 one which comes with 2 gears of war controllers both of which are screwy. The one had its b button get caved in after 2 weeks and the second continously loses battery power over and over. This is my 5th xbox controller to mess up.
Oh, look, an anecdote. Moving on.

Zeckt said:
And just look at their live service, where it costs developers 40 thousand dollars for a simple patch on their games.
Got a citation for that number?

Zeckt said:
They lured a bunch of small independent developers and with the new update beat them in a corner and charge developers huge amounts of money to put games on the arcade.
Now, tell me in plain terms how that's a viable business strategy. $40,000 is chickenfeed to a company as big as Microsoft. Why would they risk long-term business for such a low payoff in the short-term?

Zeckt said:
With the new patch we are bombarded with advertisements, and they have the guts to raise the price on live for something which really should be free.
Oh, it should? You mean like internet service? Because that's free, right?

Zeckt said:
You have to have an active live account to have access to "perks" like netflix (thats a JOKE) and live ruined any communication with their community with their games. Just look at the sorry state of the dungeon defender dlc, microsoft acts like bloody money grubbing tyrants and just look at how it ruins games that thrive on dlc like l4d or team fortress 2.
Okay...so then whose fault is that? Those games are getting perpetually updated. While I see the problem with the limit to updates, you're complaining about a problem as valid as claiming the 360 ruined RTS games by not including a mouse with its keyboard.

When I buy a game, I usually expect it to be a complete product. With stuff like Skyrim or Fallout, I'll expect a fixer patch within a day or so, but then beyond that, any DLC will be what I choose to buy.

Zeckt said:
You cannot mod ANY game on the 360, which makes people who bought skyrim on the 360 insanely jealous of all the fun the pc community gets to have with user created content. Microsoft simply does not ALLOW us access to it because it contradicts their ideals.
No shit, Sherlock. No console lets you do that because they're consoles. And you claim to love user-generated content and update-based games, but those two things mix like sodium and water. I can't download a mod for a computer game without it invariably being rendered useless by the next update, so I choose not to use mods even when I have the opportunity to do so.

And let me establish right now: I much prefer paying $400 for a console that can reliably play any game I feed it than sinking two grand into a computer that will be outdated and useless before I'm out of college. And that's assuming that it doesn't crash or get a virus or something.

Zeckt said:
Enough is enough! all microsoft accomplishes is strangling developers with their bullshit, and get away with releasing GARBAGE hardware so you have to re-buy the console and controller over and over and they actually have the guts to charge you almost 100$ a year to play games online.
Uh-huh. You still haven't provided any citations.

Zeckt said:
Next gen microsoft NEEDS to lose the race because they are literally keeping gaming in the dark ages with their selfish tactics. In a perfect world everyone would buy games only for the pc so developers / consumers can enjoy freedom and the biggest hurdle for developers would not be the money to make the games, but only their creativity.
Oh, I see. So your idea of a "perfect world" is one where consoles don't exist? Because that will end the evil console monopoly that Microsoft has?

Take a quick check at your operating system for me. Is it something with 'Windows' in its name?

Zeckt said:
Will microsoft ever have gems like Cave Story, SOL exodus which is trying to make a space combat comeback, or Terraria? NO, because they ask for way too much money. Microsoft is the equivalent of the church in the dark ages.
Ah. I see. So you just learned about the Dark Ages in history class, and you eagerly leaped into action to declare this 'profound' parallel that you obviously know nothing about.

Zeckt said:
What is there to defend about the 360 other then brand loyalty?
Here's a Debating 101 tip: always consider what the opposing side might say. It makes building your arguments easier, and it'll help you realize that sometimes you have to provide evidence for your claims.
 

tactica

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Programmed_For_Damage said:
I might be in the minority but the PC gamers can keep their mods. There is a reason game developers generate content for their own games; it's because they're good at it. I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.
L.U.R.K. for STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl enhances the game without adding tons of junk or making things easy - in fact, it makes the game harder in most respects. Despite the bugs, IMHO it's the only mod worth playing for that game.
 

MorganL4

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May 1, 2008
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Veylon said:
All that and yet you bought four of the things and continue to pay for their internet services? When you keep throwing money at them like this, you are giving them every reason to think they are doing a fantastic job.
well his first two red ringed, which means he SHOULD have gotten replacements for free. So he only actually had to pay for the original and his GoW3 version.

Personally I own an elite, that Red ringed, I got it replaced and haven't had any problems since..... That said in 2009 I got myself a gaming rig and since then my three sixty has been gathering dust. It only really comes out when my friend comes over and wants to play Halo Reach.

As to whether the 360 needs to die........meh we will probably only have 1-2 more console generations ANYWAY so I don't think it matters that much.
 

Gatx

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lapan said:
You have mostly valid points, however no console allows the users to create mods, this is not only Microsofts fault.
Actually Unreal Tournament on PS3 supports mods. Not sure how many other games do though.
 

kouriichi

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Sorry to hear that. But personally.... x: ive only had one fatal RROD.

I love my 360. And yes, my computer is more then powerful enough to run any game that hits the shelves. While i own WAAAAAY more games on PC, i do enjoy console gaming. Many games are produced for it, and id rather have a console game on a console, then a bad port on a PC.
 

godofallu

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I on the other hand love Xbox and hope it lasts forever.

Sure I have had a few break, but Microsoft was kind enough to fix them for me for free. Plus I would gladly pay thousands of dollars for an xbox.

The controllers do have some loose battery pack problems, but the design feels so good I can't hold any other controller and smile. They just don't compare to an xbox controller and that probably is a big part of the reason its the default for gaming on PC.

Plus xbox live is revolutionary and really brings a community together.
 

IckleMissMayhem

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Oct 18, 2009
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Iron Criterion said:
So I can't contribute to this discussion if my Xbox hasn't broken in the five years I've owned it?
You can, but your console working really doesn't mean much.
By that logic, your console not working doesn't mean much either.

Surely your best bet would be to switch consoles if you're that unhappy with a 360?
 

Vigormortis

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Vault101 said:
hahaha thats a bit fo a loaded statement

there are plently of really good mods..however Modding is not actually somthing that interests me,

1. because I havnt quite worked out how it works

2. by principle Vanilla game should be good enough, if its not I'll find somthing else to play
In most cases, it's not so much that there's something wrong with the "vanilla game" as much as it is just getting something different or extra.

Think of it in terms of, say, a car. You buy a brand new car (or have a nice one already), but you decide you want better tires. Or better rims. Or some pin-striping. Or perhaps some nicer leather seat covers.

It's not as if there was anything wrong with the car before hand. In fact, you probably loved it before. It's just that, sometimes, you want something a bit different or you want to tweak it a bit to suit your wants exactly. This is usually what modding is about.

There's also the occasions of people just wanting to make their own game, and thus use the tools made available to them by the gaming companies. In these instances, it's not about adding some content to a game, it's about making your own game using the engine and assets of the core game.

Oh, also, modding is fairly "easy". (easy is quoted because making a mod isn't that easy, but installing one is. usually.) Most of the better modders create self-installers that will set it up for you. Other, less skilled or lazy modders will just archive the files and tell you to put them in the right folders. Unless the setup of the core game makes it impossible for a self-installer to work, in which case it's the fault of the original developer and not the modders.

Plus, in most cases, you can find relatively easy instructions on how to set up a mod online. A quick google search is all you need.

Somonah said:
I can't imagine that consoles break as often as they have for you. So maybe, just maybe it's not the company's faul? Maybe, and this will probably be hard to accept but maybe it's you?

While i adore PC gaming, it isn't cheap. you complain about going through 4 xboxs and some controlers, yeah that's 2 gaming PCs. And you will blow up your first gaming PC so yeah 4 xboxs you're still spending less.

Programmed_For_Damage said:
I might be in the minority but the PC gamers can keep their mods. There is a reason game developers generate content for their own games; it's because they're good at it. I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.
Ever heard of a game called Counter Strike? because it was a mod. lets list a few other games that started as mods.

DOTA (a mod which created an entire genre of games)
Team Fortress (started as a quake mod)
Nehrim - (Oblivion mod that is pretty much an entirely new game)

There's also the unofficial Oblivion patch. A fix to many many many (not all) of the bugs in Oblivion. A patch. Created by gamers to fix a game the developers couldn't. half arsed indeed.
Now, I don't know about that. I still have my gaming PCs from 2004 and from 1998. I still use the one from '04 on occasion to play things that, well, don't quite "agree" with Windows 7, .net framework 3, Direct X 9+, or OpenGL 3.0+.

In general, I've found you can buy much more reliable hardware for a PC when compared to the made-on-the-cheap hardware you usually get in today's consoles. I know not all Xboxes fail, but the failure rate of Microsofts console is still quite high. Higher than would usually be considered acceptable in other product lines.

Also, even if you "blow up" your first gaming rig, it's usually only one or two pieces of hardware that'll go. And you can easily replace them without having to shell out a fortune. In most cases, a good bit less than you'd pay getting a couple of controllers for a console, let along another console.

Unless you're buying pre-built. In which case, oh yeah, you're quite right. That'll cost you WAY more than getting a couple of consoles.

But then, I never recommend going pre-built. It's like buying an unreliable console, only for eight times the price.
 

Wolfram23

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Char-Nobyl said:
Zeckt said:
And just look at their live service, where it costs developers 40 thousand dollars for a simple patch on their games.
Got a citation for that number?

Sure: http://www.videogamer.com/news/schafer_xbox_360_patches_cost_40k.html

Zeckt said:
With the new patch we are bombarded with advertisements, and they have the guts to raise the price on live for something which really should be free.
Oh, it should? You mean like internet service? Because that's free, right?

Those services are free in PS3, Wii, and PC... Xbox is the only one charging

Zeckt said:
You cannot mod ANY game on the 360, which makes people who bought skyrim on the 360 insanely jealous of all the fun the pc community gets to have with user created content. Microsoft simply does not ALLOW us access to it because it contradicts their ideals.
No shit, Sherlock. No console lets you do that because they're consoles. And you claim to love user-generated content and update-based games, but those two things mix like sodium and water. I can't download a mod for a computer game without it invariably being rendered useless by the next update, so I choose not to use mods even when I have the opportunity to do so.

Actually that's complete crap. I've used some huge overhaul mods on many games, in particular though STALKER: CoP and Skyrim, and the vast majority of mods do not and can not break because of the update. The exceptions are things like Skyrim Script Extender and SkyBoost which vastly improve game performance and the script library (Papyrus)

And let me establish right now: I much prefer paying $400 for a console that can reliably play any game I feed it than sinking two grand into a computer that will be outdated and useless before I'm out of college. And that's assuming that it doesn't crash or get a virus or something.

...Ok. I disagree with the value assessments as well as the implication of huge instability, but we'll roll with it. Not like Xboxs ever break and need replacing. Oh... right.

Zeckt said:
Next gen microsoft NEEDS to lose the race because they are literally keeping gaming in the dark ages with their selfish tactics. In a perfect world everyone would buy games only for the pc so developers / consumers can enjoy freedom and the biggest hurdle for developers would not be the money to make the games, but only their creativity.
Oh, I see. So your idea of a "perfect world" is one where consoles don't exist? Because that will end the evil console monopoly that Microsoft has?

Implying that open source is the perfect world is vastly different than implying consoles shouldn't exist, but I'm not going to put words in his mouth

Take a quick check at your operating system for me. Is it something with 'Windows' in its name?

Sad, the way monopolies work. Want to play DirectX video games on PC? You need Windows. I personally await the day games are made on open source code like OpenGL and I can simply run Ubuntu or whatever free OS.
Anyway, my personal opinion is that consoles are good. They get more people into gaming, and as they mature games get better across the board (including PC ports). It's pretty simple to get away from consoles, really. You can get gaming on a PC for as little as $400-500 (plus a monitor, but same goes for a console). Sure, it will be outdated compared to the most modern tech in a year as new GPUs and CPUs get released, but compared to the software it will not be struggling any more than when it was new. Games just aren't really getting any more demanding on the minimum specs side of things.

Sure, on PC you might need to troubleshoot an issue here and there (10 minutes on Google... less time than you spend reading this forum. Or Facebook) but otherwise, keep you PC in good condition and it'll last a long time. I think the slight inconveniences are vastly, vastly out striped by the benefits - but of course not everyone feels that way and I'm ok with it.
 

chadachada123

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I've only had one RRoD myself during the five years between purchase (right after launch) and switching to the Halo Reach 360S.

That said, it sucks that people have to move up to the new 360 just to avoid the problems that affect a lot of the old ones.

Still, I think Microsoft has a very slim edge over Sony, especially with the completely fuck-tarded controller that the PS1/2/3 has.
 

woodaba

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I've had my Xbox since release. Never Red ring'ed. Not once.

Microsoft has no more shady business practices than EVERY SINGLE GAME COMPANY KNOWN TO MAN. It's not a problem with them, its a problem with the industry.
 

William Ossiss

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Apr 8, 2010
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here's where opinion and fact become eschewed. My opinion is that the xbox 360 sucks. The only redeeming quality is that they have the best library of exclusives FOR ME. I've owned a ps3, and the only time i used it was for a sony exclusive. Otherwise; it all boiled down to "do I play this on ps3 or xbox?" The latter was always chosen, simply to up my gamerscore. Now I've gone through 4 of these consoles personally. First two RRoD'd and the third went to an E74 error. I decided to test something with this last one. I refused to smoke around it, kept the area nicely ventilated and acceptably dust free. Lo and behold, it works still to this very day. It also doesn't hurt to install your games first. Oh, look. A wall of opinion.

The fact is that MS dropped the ball by bullrushing this console out as early as the did. This is probably why they're only just now revealing the consoles at next years E3 (rumored). Even then, it will be awhile till it gets released.

It damn well better be backward compatible...