Millions of People Fall Into New Vegas

[yundex]

I don't know how obsidian does it, they haven't released a single finished game and yet people still buy them up. And with dungeon siege 3 on the way, i'm not thinking how good it will be, i'm thinking about how broken it will be.

because they put so much effort into their games that they don't care for bugs. bugs can be fixed. a bad game cannot. bugs do not make a game bad, bad game play does.

for exmaple, Dwarf fortress has a LOT of bugs yet a lot of people love it. Minecraft is IN ALPHA, AN UNFINISHED GAME, yet people still buy minecraft by the millions.

No, it's because they shove games out the door before they are ready. Bugs can be fixed sure, why haven't they fixed alpha protocol yet? With minecraft, you at least know you're paying $15 to test a game instead of 60.

oh? Toady pushed out Dwarf fortress with bugs and didn't care, yet he is still loved and so is his game. You also put the CONSOLE price on their games, instead of the PC's 20-50 bucks. Consoles will always continue to be screwed by bugs, hell AP for the PC is playable and has patches. Hell all the console games i played ended up being buggy, unsupported turds after the 2 weeks that they actually MATTER. Console games have short shelf lives, and after 2 weeks no one gives a shit or plays the games anymore. They just trade them in for new releases. Hell my friend traded in Bioshock 2 the day after its release. After 1-2 weeks, the game just falls into obscurity.

if people stop playing their games after 1 week anyway, why bother wasting money fixing it? AP will still be bought for the PC LONG after its release date, and that makes it a better investment.

If you're satisfied with unfinished games than that's awesome for you, but you're acting like it should be the norm. AP was not fixed either. "Why bother fixing the games when they stop playing them after a week", yes, because we would totally keep playing through constant freezes, broken story quests, and a multitude of other problems. Bioware, blizzard, frictional, 2k and many other companies release games that are fully functional and do not freeze every hour, why can't they?

how the fuck is it unfinished? ITS BUGGY, NOT UNFINISHED. BUGS =/= UNFINISHED. unfinished means they wanted to add something but didn't and push it out anyway. just because there are bugs doesn't means its not finished. you fail to realize 2K doesn't support people either. If you own windows vista or windows 7 they say "fuck you fix it yourself". Bioware? don't make me laugh they barely fucking support people who buy their games USED or support people when they lose their CD key. I lost my CD key and i was told to "buy another 50$ game, sucker". Blizzard? They haven't made anything for YEARS and WOW doesn't count. even in its early days, WOW wasn't like it was today. They made an "unfinished game" then fixed problems and added things later.

bugs can be fixed, broken gameplay cannot. Obsidian doesn't make unfinished games, they make buggy games with good gameplay and that is a big difference.

I'm ignoring the part that had nothing to do with my point, it will will just end up with obsidian looking even worse, (cause kotor2 still doesn't work with vista, wow) and i'm not arguing semantics. Right, i'll just disagree that obsidian makes games with great gameplay, their only original game, AP, has a joke of a combat system. Buggy isn't a harsh enough word for it. I'm not making the same mistake with DS3.

Edit: pressing the back button is not a good idea. :/

 

[rossable]

too bad the game's so horrible. all my expectations were dashed on jagged rocks like a prison escapee from Alcatraz.

culmination of all my despair:
my character was villainized by both the powder ganger and legion groups. escorting a trade caravan i get ambushed by 4 legion recruits. they see me and the legion assassin team spawns. after the ensuing battle i am the only left one standing, 3 of 6 crippled, out of stimpacks, perception high enough to see another legion patrol down the road before they spot me. i don the legion armor to try to make it by them because i'm over encumbered with loot from the dead to sell so i can restock on healing supplies and can't fast travel as a result. out of nowhere NCR shows up and seeing me in legion armor attacks me without question. even with me attempting to surrender and changing garments. seeing i'm not going to succeed i re-don the legion armor and run for "backup" down the road chucking dynamite as my only hope since my weapons were all out of ammo from the previously vicious battle. they kill each other. i limp to the nearest town, changing into neutral garb. as soon as i get there NCR Rangers confront me and say i have 3 days to become un-hated or they will kill me. i had already done all the NCR quests that were available at that time. in a frantic wandering i come across a small 4 man NCR outpost. they give me a quest to kill a legion camp with sniper support by mercy killing the hostages. i do it and stealth kill all legion that i saw. return and get the end quest speech, "you did good but the higher ups wont like it", at which point the Rangers pop out of nowhere and say, "that's the last straw", and start shooting. i turn to run and literally bump into the ripper of a legion assassin.

rage quit! haven't played since. that crap game play on top of all the bugs was too much for me to handle. i might pick it up again after a major patch. overall i'm disappointed to the point where it's close to my blacklist. i was attempting to be neutral to all groups and i managed to be hated or worse by them all. something's seriously wrong about that, especially when an official quest from a group damages you rep with them instead of improving it.

oh so you quit because you made bad mistakes? they hate you because you had LEGION ARMOR ON and they saw you. fallout isn't easy, and the factions can be an ACTUAL THREAT unlike fallout 3. next time don't walk near an NCR camp with legion armor, take it off IMMEDIATELY when you're done. you die? reload the save and get extra armor piercing/hollow point ammo. simple.

i swear any resemblance of "difficulty" and people run the other way.

i wasn't anywhere near an NCR outpost. bottom line is i didn't find the game enjoyable in any way at all. the point of an RPG, especially one like Fallout, is to play in a style you enjoy and not have to follow a set method to be able to succeed. i was playing a perceptive and social pacifist because it seemed like an interesting spin on the premise. wasn't playing for the story's supposed revenge. in fact the plot was forced and i saw no reason to care in the least. i tried to play a courier as a neutral party free to go where they needed to as jobs required. powder ganger attacked me and i ran away, in the pursuit NPC kills them and i get labeled hated... doesn't quite add up. there was no logic. there was no reason for them to attack me to begin with. what happed to the classic threat. "give me all your caps!" that i could deal with. talk my way out or pay them off and go about my way. somehow even the caravan had me as a "sneering punk" i didn't do anything to or with them other than that one escort getting slaughtered while i happened to be standing nearby and i had the misfortune of surviving them. yeah, that's reason for disdain. perhaps i was expecting logical and realistic consequence after games like Alpha Protocol and Heavy Rain. does it really make sense to you that i'm the one at fault for expecting improvement or innovation over what we had in Fallout 3. how much of that $300,000,000 was from preorders? i know i preordered and was genuinely excited for this game and i feel i have legitimate reasons for not liking it and thinking i wasted my money. all the bugs were just an added insult on top of a all-around bad game. to put it into perspective i hadn't even made it to Helios One yet. that was my next main storyline quest but i was backtracking trying to get the NCR to not hate me. try playing as a pacifist and see how far you get. you can't sneak away from the assassin/Ranger groups they are programmed to spawn on top of you and are more annoyingly heat-seeking on you than the guards from Oblivion. their own faction disguises don't even work, i've tried.

 

[yundex]

I don't know how obsidian does it, they haven't released a single finished game and yet people still buy them up. And with dungeon siege 3 on the way, i'm not thinking how good it will be, i'm thinking about how broken it will be.

because they put so much effort into their games that they don't care for bugs. bugs can be fixed. a bad game cannot. bugs do not make a game bad, bad game play does.

for exmaple, Dwarf fortress has a LOT of bugs yet a lot of people love it. Minecraft is IN ALPHA, AN UNFINISHED GAME, yet people still buy minecraft by the millions.

No, it's because they shove games out the door before they are ready. Bugs can be fixed sure, why haven't they fixed alpha protocol yet? With minecraft, you at least know you're paying $15 to test a game instead of 60.

oh? Toady pushed out Dwarf fortress with bugs and didn't care, yet he is still loved and so is his game. You also put the CONSOLE price on their games, instead of the PC's 20-50 bucks. Consoles will always continue to be screwed by bugs, hell AP for the PC is playable and has patches. Hell all the console games i played ended up being buggy, unsupported turds after the 2 weeks that they actually MATTER. Console games have short shelf lives, and after 2 weeks no one gives a shit or plays the games anymore. They just trade them in for new releases. Hell my friend traded in Bioshock 2 the day after its release. After 1-2 weeks, the game just falls into obscurity.

if people stop playing their games after 1 week anyway, why bother wasting money fixing it? AP will still be bought for the PC LONG after its release date, and that makes it a better investment.

If you're satisfied with unfinished games than that's awesome for you, but you're acting like it should be the norm. AP was not fixed either. "Why bother fixing the games when they stop playing them after a week", yes, because we would totally keep playing through constant freezes, broken story quests, and a multitude of other problems. Bioware, blizzard, frictional, 2k and many other companies release games that are fully functional and do not freeze every hour, why can't they?

bugs can be fixed, broken gameplay cannot. Obsidian doesn't make unfinished games, they make buggy games with good gameplay and that is a big difference.

I'm ignoring the part that had nothing to do with my point, it will will just end up with obsidian looking even worse, and i'm not arguing semantics. Right, i'll just disagree that obsidian makes games with great gameplay, their only original game, AP, has a joke of a combat system. Buggy isn't a harsh enough word for it.

I don't know how obsidian does it, they haven't released a single finished game and yet people still buy them up. And with dungeon siege 3 on the way, i'm not thinking how good it will be, i'm thinking about how broken it will be.

because they put so much effort into their games that they don't care for bugs. bugs can be fixed. a bad game cannot. bugs do not make a game bad, bad game play does.

for exmaple, Dwarf fortress has a LOT of bugs yet a lot of people love it. Minecraft is IN ALPHA, AN UNFINISHED GAME, yet people still buy minecraft by the millions.

No, it's because they shove games out the door before they are ready. Bugs can be fixed sure, why haven't they fixed alpha protocol yet? With minecraft, you at least know you're paying $15 to test a game instead of 60.

oh? Toady pushed out Dwarf fortress with bugs and didn't care, yet he is still loved and so is his game. You also put the CONSOLE price on their games, instead of the PC's 20-50 bucks. Consoles will always continue to be screwed by bugs, hell AP for the PC is playable and has patches. Hell all the console games i played ended up being buggy, unsupported turds after the 2 weeks that they actually MATTER. Console games have short shelf lives, and after 2 weeks no one gives a shit or plays the games anymore. They just trade them in for new releases. Hell my friend traded in Bioshock 2 the day after its release. After 1-2 weeks, the game just falls into obscurity.

if people stop playing their games after 1 week anyway, why bother wasting money fixing it? AP will still be bought for the PC LONG after its release date, and that makes it a better investment.

If you're satisfied with unfinished games than that's awesome for you, but you're acting like it should be the norm. AP was not fixed either. "Why bother fixing the games when they stop playing them after a week", yes, because we would totally keep playing through constant freezes, broken story quests, and a multitude of other problems. Bioware, blizzard, frictional, 2k and many other companies release games that are fully functional and do not freeze every hour, why can't they?

how the fuck is it unfinished? ITS BUGGY, NOT UNFINISHED. BUGS =/= UNFINISHED. unfinished means they wanted to add something but didn't and push it out anyway. just because there are bugs doesn't means its not finished. you fail to realize 2K doesn't support people either. If you own windows vista or windows 7 they say "fuck you fix it yourself". Bioware? don't make me laugh they barely fucking support people who buy their games USED or support people when they lose their CD key. I lost my CD key and i was told to "buy another 50$ game, sucker". Blizzard? They haven't made anything for YEARS and WOW doesn't count. even in its early days, WOW wasn't like it was today. They made an "unfinished game" then fixed problems and added things later.

bugs can be fixed, broken gameplay cannot. Obsidian doesn't make unfinished games, they make buggy games with good gameplay and that is a big difference.

I'm ignoring the part that had nothing to do with my point, it will will just end up with obsidian looking even worse, (cause kotor2 still doesn't work with vista, wow) and i'm not arguing semantics. Right, i'll just disagree that obsidian makes games with great gameplay, their only original game, AP, has a joke of a combat system. Buggy isn't a harsh enough word for it. I'm not making the same mistake with DS3.

so your basing your opinion of AP, a multiplatform game, using the CONSOLE EDITION for all the copies? why not say VALVE makes shit games while you're at it? they don't support consoles at all and neither does obsidian. The only people who make console games are A) a console only dev or B) doing it for a quick money grab, a crime even VALVE is guilty of. If VALVE does the same thing as Obsidian, why not scream at VALVE too? Combat isn't what a game makes. It may be "impossible" for you to imagine but the first video game had no violence, and it took decades for a game to come out with guns. So you're saying PONG is bad because it has no combat? What about mario? or donkey kong? or even tetris and bubble trouble?

I played AP on the PC. Also, the second half of that paragraph had nothing to do with my point again.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Even if it were offal Bethesda could ride the Fallout 3 wave and sell a ton. The real test will be how well their next game sells.

It's apparent to me that the glitchy nature of New Vegas is directly proportional to the rush they put on it. I don't expect a good game, let alone a good game of this size to be released a mere year after it's predecessor.

-edit-
Lest I forget to mention my biggest peeve, the invisible walls, I see that some people are claiming Fallout 3 had them. I played that game quite a bit and the only walls I came across were the borders of the map. That's a little lackluster, but it's a tried and true method of doing things. New Vegas on the other hand has them at the top of nearly every hill in the game.

 

[rossable]

i tried to get Boon while trying to repair my NCR status and he refused becasue i was in bad standing with them. the only companion i had was ED-E. loved the perk and the extra storage but i find the concept of companions hampering to my style of play. Ed-E couldn't sneak and would fire on any threat even when set to passive and told to hang back. i would prefer if companions weren't there. never used them in Fallout 3 either. probably goes back to my hatred of "Heroes" in Warcraft 3. never finished that game because i couldn't stand the heroes, never used them for anything and then at the end of the level they would have a cut scene where they did everything. nope, i'm petty enough to physically break a game that tries to tell that something happened that i know specifically didn't. imho warcraft 2 was the last warcraft game. i'll give Fallout New Vegas another go when the patch hits but if i run into the same game-play issues of them denying me my chosen style of play then i'll never play it again. maybe it was all related to some sort of a glitch? i never got the surrender action to work. i never had my gun out so maybe the act of drawing it after i was fired on and then trying to re-holster it and talk to them is what made them think i was attacking... i honestly have no idea. all i know for sure is something was very wrong and i didn't experience any of the major glitches that everyone else seems to be describing so there may be some correlation to the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. build and how the game glitches or with those first psyche style questions you answer?

 

[yundex]

I don't know how obsidian does it, they haven't released a single finished game and yet people still buy them up. And with dungeon siege 3 on the way, i'm not thinking how good it will be, i'm thinking about how broken it will be.

because they put so much effort into their games that they don't care for bugs. bugs can be fixed. a bad game cannot. bugs do not make a game bad, bad game play does.

for exmaple, Dwarf fortress has a LOT of bugs yet a lot of people love it. Minecraft is IN ALPHA, AN UNFINISHED GAME, yet people still buy minecraft by the millions.

No, it's because they shove games out the door before they are ready. Bugs can be fixed sure, why haven't they fixed alpha protocol yet? With minecraft, you at least know you're paying $15 to test a game instead of 60.

oh? Toady pushed out Dwarf fortress with bugs and didn't care, yet he is still loved and so is his game. You also put the CONSOLE price on their games, instead of the PC's 20-50 bucks. Consoles will always continue to be screwed by bugs, hell AP for the PC is playable and has patches. Hell all the console games i played ended up being buggy, unsupported turds after the 2 weeks that they actually MATTER. Console games have short shelf lives, and after 2 weeks no one gives a shit or plays the games anymore. They just trade them in for new releases. Hell my friend traded in Bioshock 2 the day after its release. After 1-2 weeks, the game just falls into obscurity.

if people stop playing their games after 1 week anyway, why bother wasting money fixing it? AP will still be bought for the PC LONG after its release date, and that makes it a better investment.

If you're satisfied with unfinished games than that's awesome for you, but you're acting like it should be the norm. AP was not fixed either. "Why bother fixing the games when they stop playing them after a week", yes, because we would totally keep playing through constant freezes, broken story quests, and a multitude of other problems. Bioware, blizzard, frictional, 2k and many other companies release games that are fully functional and do not freeze every hour, why can't they?

bugs can be fixed, broken gameplay cannot. Obsidian doesn't make unfinished games, they make buggy games with good gameplay and that is a big difference.

I'm ignoring the part that had nothing to do with my point, it will will just end up with obsidian looking even worse, and i'm not arguing semantics. Right, i'll just disagree that obsidian makes games with great gameplay, their only original game, AP, has a joke of a combat system. Buggy isn't a harsh enough word for it.

I don't know how obsidian does it, they haven't released a single finished game and yet people still buy them up. And with dungeon siege 3 on the way, i'm not thinking how good it will be, i'm thinking about how broken it will be.

because they put so much effort into their games that they don't care for bugs. bugs can be fixed. a bad game cannot. bugs do not make a game bad, bad game play does.

for exmaple, Dwarf fortress has a LOT of bugs yet a lot of people love it. Minecraft is IN ALPHA, AN UNFINISHED GAME, yet people still buy minecraft by the millions.

No, it's because they shove games out the door before they are ready. Bugs can be fixed sure, why haven't they fixed alpha protocol yet? With minecraft, you at least know you're paying $15 to test a game instead of 60.

oh? Toady pushed out Dwarf fortress with bugs and didn't care, yet he is still loved and so is his game. You also put the CONSOLE price on their games, instead of the PC's 20-50 bucks. Consoles will always continue to be screwed by bugs, hell AP for the PC is playable and has patches. Hell all the console games i played ended up being buggy, unsupported turds after the 2 weeks that they actually MATTER. Console games have short shelf lives, and after 2 weeks no one gives a shit or plays the games anymore. They just trade them in for new releases. Hell my friend traded in Bioshock 2 the day after its release. After 1-2 weeks, the game just falls into obscurity.

if people stop playing their games after 1 week anyway, why bother wasting money fixing it? AP will still be bought for the PC LONG after its release date, and that makes it a better investment.

If you're satisfied with unfinished games than that's awesome for you, but you're acting like it should be the norm. AP was not fixed either. "Why bother fixing the games when they stop playing them after a week", yes, because we would totally keep playing through constant freezes, broken story quests, and a multitude of other problems. Bioware, blizzard, frictional, 2k and many other companies release games that are fully functional and do not freeze every hour, why can't they?

how the fuck is it unfinished? ITS BUGGY, NOT UNFINISHED. BUGS =/= UNFINISHED. unfinished means they wanted to add something but didn't and push it out anyway. just because there are bugs doesn't means its not finished. you fail to realize 2K doesn't support people either. If you own windows vista or windows 7 they say "fuck you fix it yourself". Bioware? don't make me laugh they barely fucking support people who buy their games USED or support people when they lose their CD key. I lost my CD key and i was told to "buy another 50$ game, sucker". Blizzard? They haven't made anything for YEARS and WOW doesn't count. even in its early days, WOW wasn't like it was today. They made an "unfinished game" then fixed problems and added things later.

bugs can be fixed, broken gameplay cannot. Obsidian doesn't make unfinished games, they make buggy games with good gameplay and that is a big difference.

I'm ignoring the part that had nothing to do with my point, it will will just end up with obsidian looking even worse, (cause kotor2 still doesn't work with vista, wow) and i'm not arguing semantics. Right, i'll just disagree that obsidian makes games with great gameplay, their only original game, AP, has a joke of a combat system. Buggy isn't a harsh enough word for it. I'm not making the same mistake with DS3.

so your basing your opinion of AP, a multiplatform game, using the CONSOLE EDITION for all the copies? why not say VALVE makes shit games while you're at it? they don't support consoles at all and neither does obsidian. The only people who make console games are A) a console only dev or B) doing it for a quick money grab, a crime even VALVE is guilty of. If VALVE does the same thing as Obsidian, why not scream at VALVE too? Combat isn't what a game makes. It may be "impossible" for you to imagine but the first video game had no violence, and it took decades for a game to come out with guns. So you're saying PONG is bad because it has no combat? What about mario? or donkey kong? or even tetris and bubble trouble?

I played AP on the PC. Also, the second half of that paragraph had nothing to do with my point again.

fine, you want your main point? i played AP extensively and never have i had an issue. They fixed AP to be playable yet you complain of combat, as if AP is COD. If that isn't your point then what is? all i hear is "AP has bugs and i can't headshoot noobz like halo". Obsidian isn't a bunch of lazy developers, at the end of the day they fix their game and AP was fixed I can assure you that. Have you even played it beyond launch day? or did you just play it at launch, left it, then never played it ever again?

My point is the post you originally quoted, which is why I end up ignoring most of what you type. (I haven't played CoD or halo). I finished AP after the last update, which is why I said it was never fixed in the first place.

 

[civver]

Hopefully this means that the bugs will be worked on. But you know what, I'd still play it a lot with the bugs. Just need to save periodically.

 

[Gilhelmi]

I will not get FO:NV until at least two more patches come out. It is taking all my willpower not too get the game. I want the game but developers have too know I will not buy a half finished game. If everyone stops buying half finished games maybe they will get the picture.

I know one person alone can not do much but if everyone pitched in to help we might make a difference.

Problem is as you can see everones to busy having fun rather than making a political statment.

Politics, Scmolitics. If I buy a new car I expect it to be a fully functioning car. I do not want to hear, "sorry we will send a patch to fix the steering, breaks, and seat belts. Our apologies for any Crashes that may have occurred." No, I expect a fully operating car. A small flaw here and there is acceptable but FO:NV is just plain absured.

Have you actually tested it out for yourself?

Gamefly, rent before you buy.

Goddamnit, you called my bluff.

So anyway, out of curiosity, what did you think of the game parts of the game that actually functioned? did you enjoy it? I assume you did, given that you said you'd get it at some point.

Oh, I love the game. It is a little complicated, but I loved hardcore mode.

 

[SimuLord]

It's a mark of just how good New Vegas is that I'm able to put up with some of bugs. The best half finished mess ever.

But seriously, it's no more buggy than Fallout 3, Fallout tactics, Fallout 2, even Fallout 1 to an extent. Obsidian is just sticking with tradition.

Well on the buggy side of things it was already doomed from the beginning.

Huge world? Check
Fallout franchise? Check
Gamebryo engine? Check
Developed by Obsidian? Check

And yet it's still my Game of the Year. Go figure.

 

[instantbenz]

I don't know how obsidian does it, they haven't released a single finished game and yet people still buy them up. And with dungeon siege 3 on the way, i'm not thinking how good it will be, i'm thinking about how broken it will be.

because they put so much effort into their games that they don't care for bugs. bugs can be fixed. a bad game cannot. bugs do not make a game bad, bad game play does.

for exmaple, Dwarf fortress has a LOT of bugs yet a lot of people love it. Minecraft is IN ALPHA, AN UNFINISHED GAME, yet people still buy minecraft by the millions.

See things like bugs and glitchy crap in a game are really upsetting to me. It's only magnified at launch when slight testing could have solved things. If an exploit is found by a customer, fine. It's when a product is sold to me that is malfunctioning that I get upset.

It's like buying a watch that doesn't keep time or a car that stops dead from time to time and reloads me back at my garage.

That's a poor product to me.

 

[Lordmarkus]

It's a mark of just how good New Vegas is that I'm able to put up with some of bugs. The best half finished mess ever.

But seriously, it's no more buggy than Fallout 3, Fallout tactics, Fallout 2, even Fallout 1 to an extent. Obsidian is just sticking with tradition.

Well on the buggy side of things it was already doomed from the beginning.

Huge world? Check
Fallout franchise? Check
Gamebryo engine? Check
Developed by Obsidian? Check

And yet it's still my Game of the Year. Go figure.

Well, Fallout 2 was buggy as fuck when it was released but today people mostly remembers the fantastic adventure Black Isle crafted. Hopefully gaming history will be as gentle on New Vegas as on Fallout 2.