Misanthropes: I don't get you.

Booze Zombie

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Because people expect me to explain myself to them when I say something really simple, I'd rather not talk to them for the most part.
 

Smithburg

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No_Remainders said:
retyopy said:
Oh, sure, on a higher level, I do. Humans suck, life is pain, etc. But on a more practical level, you just make no sense to me, and heres why: Life is so much nicer if you have a positive outlook! Just go out into the world, be a nice person, and do something fun. What's the point of hating humanity? Wheres that going to get you?

EXPLAIN YOURSELVES!
I swear I saw this exact thread about a week ago...

Ok, it's not really exactly the same, but still...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.313619-You-know-what-I-hate-Misanthropes

I'm not really a misanthrope. I'm about the closest thing one can be to a misanthrope without actually hating people. I just don't trust them. Anyone walks up to me and asks me about myself, I'll answer vaguely, because I don't know who the fuck they are, and I don't know why they're talking to me.

Sure, some people out there are perfectly nice, it's just that others are douchebags who have ulterior motives, and those people can fuck off.
Hello Son, Would you like to join the CIA?
 

BiscuitTrouser

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xitel said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
Thanks for helping. Can you try and answer my questions in my earlier post? I wanna know what the answer is to my questions... i cant see how you CAN hate people. Stinks or arrogance to the extreme, jugdementalism and a very simple rationalisation for people too slow to realise people vary from bad to good.
Well, I think I can answer most of your questions in one answer, so I won't enumerate them. Now, I can only speak for myself, but I don't actually DECIDE to hate anyone. I just have absolutely zero respect for anyone right off the bat. I can't judge based on appearance, and I can't judge based on hearsay, I can only judge based on actions and words that I myself witness. So basically, my opinion of someone is zero when I first meet them. And when my opinion of someone is zero, I automatically expect the worst, so as not to be disappointed when it actually happens.

There's also the problem that, as the sample population size increases, my expectations decrease in turn. A single person could be the best person you've ever met, or the worst. It can vary wildly. But two people, the potential for good decreases, as far as what I expect. As you increase in size, the potential decreases, to the point where, when you consider all 7 billion people, considered solely on potential, we're a stagnated race. We do nothing but damage the things around us, through one way or another.

Then you take human nature into account. Humans are animals, despite all of our sentience and evolution. And as such, we have animalistic instincts common to all such creatures. Namely the desire for survival. And as such, all people, with a few exceptions, are inherently selfish. People will do what benefits them, no matter what. Even if the benefit is intangible, just a boost to their self-esteem or whatnot. And when you consider that, even charities and whatnot is tainted in their motivations. Yes, they're helping people, but for the most part they're helping people so that they can feel better about themselves. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but the fact that those exceptions exist proves that the rule holds true, to me. Basically, I'll admit that there are people that are great examples of humanity, but by being so they are actually suppressing their human nature, thus making me question whether they even count as examples of humanity anymore. To use a metaphor, some people are beautiful roses, but those roses are growing in a bed of shit.
You have never done a kindness to someone for no selfish reason ever? Really? Ever? People who do are not as rare as you want to think. I know ive done a few in my time, maybe less than i should. But i know i have. As have many others. I dont believe for a second you never have. Or are you an exception? One of these icons of humanity? Am i? Are all people who for some unknown reason just wanna be nice to people?

when you consider all 7 billion people, considered solely on potential, we're a stagnated race
You cant. This is just fallacy and attempting to sound all wise and omnipotent. You cant consider all those people. Assuming to know them is just baseless assertions to to jugde them all as well us just lunacy and a waste of time. You dont know everyone. Dont pretend to.

You cant talk about "our race" or "humanity" like some overseeing god, its stupid. You cant have such a view over all those people. People are people, and im not going to talk all that la de da talk about how awesome we are and shit, i dont know these people and i never will so fuck it. I know the people i do. I like them. I see stuff im proud of my fellows for doing. I decide to focus on that rather than media fear mongering and scares. And maybe improve my immediate surroundings. People have no idea how flippant these arguements sound.
 

AlloAllo

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I don't like people as a generalized idea, let's say. When I see the news on the telly, my first idea is "of course you would do that. Now let's wait for the moron to make the situation worse. Oh, and don't forget the crowd of people that just can't help but annoy those who are suffering... yeah. That's about right. Fuck off, I'm going to play video games now."

Of course you don't understand the joke. Of course you get offended by it. Of course you can't let it be. Of course you have to scream your idea to everyone that doesn't care. Of course you think that God exists and people who don't believe in Him will burn in Hell forever. Of course you think that everyone that believes in God is a moron.
Of course that you get angry because, holy shit, people don't share your opinion. Of course your ideas are the RIGHT ones.
Why, it would be silly to hope for anything else from you, now, would it.

So I hate the generalized idea of people because, for the love of God, you don't have time to think about it and they're already doing the worst possible thing ever.
But I don't hate people, because... well, I'm not perfect, am I, so why should I expect you to be.
And I don't hate the people I know because, well, I know them. Even if they do the worst possible bullshit in the history of the world, I know them, and I can understand why they would do it- not justify, understand.


So, to sum up: I hate the generalized picture of "humanity", because whatever they do seems to be moved by idiocy. No, not evil or any of that bullshit- idiocy. I don't like the people that I see every day around me because... well, I'm not a very extroverted person. Walking in a crowd makes me almost ill. But I like those I get to know, because at least I can understand what the hell they were thinking when they did what they did.

Plus, what, just because we don't like people we're miserable gits that don't get life? Dude, there isn't only "having friends and love and PARTY" in this life, you know.
 

SD-Fiend

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The Valet said:
We hate humans because we are aware of how badly we mess up at most things, and how we often fail to learn from out mistakes until everything around us is nothing but ash and broken.

To quote a famous authors writings, 'So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.' And its true; 9 times out of 10 we will.

So essentially we feel 'aware' of humanitys faults more than others; the greed, the selfishness, the endless, neverending wars with ourselves over mostly trivial matters...it never ends. So we despair of ever evolving in this cesspool of corruption, amorality and savagery. Four million or so years of evolution and all we really are are technologically advanced cavemen, still beating each other over the head for food, shelter, precious metals, or even just because. Only now we do it with bombs and bullets instead of sticks and stones.
well see I have a problem with that, most of you people live in a comfortable environment and have never experienced anything all that bad you've probably never fought in any of those "trivial wars' you were talking about and probably never will you sit there complaining about how bad the world is and not trying to make it a better place like so many others who take time out of their lives to just to make you more comfortable. you people have no excuse to complain if you aren't either sacrificing your life for others in one of these never ending trivial wars or at least making the world better.
 

xitel

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BiscuitTrouser said:
You have never done a kindness to someone for no selfish reason ever? Really? Ever? People who do are not as rare as you want to think. I know ive done a few in my time, maybe less than i should. But i know i have. As have many others. I dont believe for a second you never have. Or are you an exception? One of these icons of humanity? Am i? Are all people who for some unknown reason just wanna be nice to people?
I never have, no. I have been kind to people, yes, but deep down there was a certain selfish aspect to it. I did it because I wanted to do it, not because they needed it. If you're forced to do it, then it's not a kindness out of your own heart. And if you choose to do it, then you're doing it because it's something that you yourself want to do. I never said that it nullifies the kindness, I said it taints it. A white shirt that's gotten a little stained is still a white shirt. But it's got those stains.

when you consider all 7 billion people, considered solely on potential, we're a stagnated race
You cant. This is just fallacy and attempting to sound all wise and omnipotent. You cant consider all those people. Assuming to know them is just baseless assertions to to jugde them all as well us just lunacy and a waste of time. You dont know everyone. Dont pretend to.
I never claimed to know all of them. And you can't consider them individually, no, the human brain is completely incapable of doing so. But speaking on the realistic potential of them actually working together for the furthering of the race as a whole, it's impossible. There will always be a majority of people who want to twist the situation to further their own goals. It's a fact of life. Hence why I said in terms of potential, not in terms of individuals.
 

sumanoskae

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Saying an emotion or opinion doesn't have a point is like getting angry with someone because they have cancer. You don't take up emotions on purpose or to work towards a goal, an emotion or opinion is an involuntary reaction.

Why do I think people are shit?, not because it's easy, just look at them. They're rude, ignorant, close minded, selfish, stupid, greedy, evil degenerates. There are exceptions of course, but they're not common and either end up trying to fit in and becoming idiots themselves, or they become misanthropic and lonely, and it takes time to pry them from their shells.

Pretending otherwise won't change anything, and ignoring a problem won't make it go away.

Besides, valuing everyone really just means that you value no one, and I'm not wasting my time on idiots when I could be spending it with the few exceptions.
 

retyopy

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xitel said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
You have never done a kindness to someone for no selfish reason ever? Really? Ever? People who do are not as rare as you want to think. I know ive done a few in my time, maybe less than i should. But i know i have. As have many others. I dont believe for a second you never have. Or are you an exception? One of these icons of humanity? Am i? Are all people who for some unknown reason just wanna be nice to people?
I never have, no. I have been kind to people, yes, but deep down there was a certain selfish aspect to it. I did it because I wanted to do it, not because they needed it. If you're forced to do it, then it's not a kindness out of your own heart. And if you choose to do it, then you're doing it because it's something that you yourself want to do. I never said that it nullifies the kindness, I said it taints it. A white shirt that's gotten a little stained is still a white shirt. But it's got those stains.

when you consider all 7 billion people, considered solely on potential, we're a stagnated race
You cant. This is just fallacy and attempting to sound all wise and omnipotent. You cant consider all those people. Assuming to know them is just baseless assertions to to jugde them all as well us just lunacy and a waste of time. You dont know everyone. Dont pretend to.
I never claimed to know all of them. And you can't consider them individually, no, the human brain is completely incapable of doing so. But speaking on the realistic potential of them actually working together for the furthering of the race as a whole, it's impossible. There will always be a majority of people who want to twist the situation to further their own goals. It's a fact of life. Hence why I said in terms of potential, not in terms of individuals.
You should meet my twin. You'd get along perfectly.

Have I mentioned that I hate my twin?
 

BiscuitTrouser

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xitel said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
You have never done a kindness to someone for no selfish reason ever? Really? Ever? People who do are not as rare as you want to think. I know ive done a few in my time, maybe less than i should. But i know i have. As have many others. I dont believe for a second you never have. Or are you an exception? One of these icons of humanity? Am i? Are all people who for some unknown reason just wanna be nice to people?
I never have, no. I have been kind to people, yes, but deep down there was a certain selfish aspect to it. I did it because I wanted to do it, not because they needed it. If you're forced to do it, then it's not a kindness out of your own heart. And if you choose to do it, then you're doing it because it's something that you yourself want to do. I never said that it nullifies the kindness, I said it taints it. A white shirt that's gotten a little stained is still a white shirt. But it's got those stains.

when you consider all 7 billion people, considered solely on potential, we're a stagnated race
You cant. This is just fallacy and attempting to sound all wise and omnipotent. You cant consider all those people. Assuming to know them is just baseless assertions to to jugde them all as well us just lunacy and a waste of time. You dont know everyone. Dont pretend to.
I never claimed to know all of them. And you can't consider them individually, no, the human brain is completely incapable of doing so. But speaking on the realistic potential of them actually working together for the furthering of the race as a whole, it's impossible. There will always be a majority of people who want to twist the situation to further their own goals. It's a fact of life. Hence why I said in terms of potential, not in terms of individuals.
How could they if they all had the same attitudes as misanthropes? To jugde the potential of that many people on a snap jugdement is very pretentious. We simply cant know. TO follow the trend of potential alla "there are footprints on the moon" its same to assume we have a fair bit more to go. The concept that "we have done everything there is to be done" is outdated and foolish.
 

T-Bone24

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I'm no misanthrope, and I really dislike the whole "humans are evil" thing. Some humans are bad, some are good. Most are in the middle somewhere.

Anyway, misanthropes have no business on an internet forum if they truly dislike people that much.
 

xitel

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BiscuitTrouser said:
How could they if they all had the same attitudes as misanthropes? To jugde the potential of that many people on a snap jugdement is very pretentious. We simply cant know. TO follow the trend of potential alla "there are footprints on the moon" its same to assume we have a fair bit more to go. The concept that "we have done everything there is to be done" is outdated and foolish.
Again, I never said that we've done everything there is to be done. I'm saying that the impossibility of all 7 billion people working together in harmony limits it greatly. The only way to actually get people to be peaceful and work together for the good of all is to remove the inherent human nature I mentioned before. And if you remove human nature, then in my opinion you're no longer dealing with humans at all. I'm not saying it's impossible to do anything more, I'm saying that it's impossible to do anything more as we are now. And the probability of us changing the way we think as a majority is so infinitesimal that hoping for it is just begging on hands and knees to be disappointed for the rest of your life. You said earlier that you don't understand how someone could be a misanthrope. Well, I'm saying that I don't understand how someone couldn't, unless you voluntarily ignore the majority of bad that goes on in the world, and only focus on the good. And personally, I can't do that.

EDIT: Also, I'm forced to question why you seem to be getting so angry at misanthropes all of a sudden. I'm merely presenting my way of thinking, and you seem to be taking it as a personal affront. My opinion in no way nullifies your own, and I'm not trying to claim it does. And yet you keep getting angry as if you are seeing it that way.
 

magnuslion

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TonyCapa said:
I'm a misantrope. I hate people because for the most part they're stupid, greedy, backstabbing and annoying. I approached life seeing it differently, it didn't work, now I approach it with the above philosophy. Don't get me wrong, life it...awesome...sometimes but people suck, INCLUDING ME.
Fixed that for you. If you do not realize that your attitude and your actions are at least half the problem, then there probably is not any hope for you at this point.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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xitel said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
How could they if they all had the same attitudes as misanthropes? To jugde the potential of that many people on a snap jugdement is very pretentious. We simply cant know. TO follow the trend of potential alla "there are footprints on the moon" its same to assume we have a fair bit more to go. The concept that "we have done everything there is to be done" is outdated and foolish.
Again, I never said that we've done everything there is to be done. I'm saying that the impossibility of all 7 billion people working together in harmony limits it greatly. The only way to actually get people to be peaceful and work together for the good of all is to remove the inherent human nature I mentioned before. And if you remove human nature, then in my opinion you're no longer dealing with humans at all. I'm not saying it's impossible to do anything more, I'm saying that it's impossible to do anything more as we are now. And the probability of us changing the way we think as a majority is so infinitesimal that hoping for it is just begging on hands and knees to be disappointed for the rest of your life. You said earlier that you don't understand how someone could be a misanthrope. Well, I'm saying that I don't understand how someone couldn't, unless you voluntarily ignore the majority of bad that goes on in the world, and only focus on the good. And personally, I can't do that.
Or objectively focus on both and decide to further the good and combat the bad? Why are you so sure bad outnumbers good? Where is your studies and tests? Your interview with everyone? Dont tell me this opinion stems from... the media?! Surely not.
 

Smithburg

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tzimize said:
It doesnt get me anywhere, but neither does loving it. There is a looooooooong list of stuff I'm not happy with in the world in general. And my first reaction when I die if I can see my creator would be to punch him in the mouth for doing such a fucking poor job.

That said, I have a positive outlook on most stuff, or at least look at it with an appropriate amount of black humor.

My life philosophy can be summarized more or less like this:

When stuff makes you either want to laugh or cry, try laughing. Its funner. Yes. I know its not spelled that way.
When you laugh, the world laughs with you, when you cry, you cry alone.

As for the creator, it's not him that ruined the world. its people.
 

AlloAllo

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T-Bone24 said:
...
Anyway, misanthropes have no business on an internet forum if they truly dislike people that much.
Are you kidding? This means talking to people WITHOUT BEING AROUND PEOPLE. And if shit gets stupid out of the discussion you go! You try walking away from a couple of acquaintances- they'll spend YEARS remembering how rude you where, and telling everyone in the town that you're horrible and that they should throw rocks at your house.

Plus, you know. People watching. "Oh, look: they have started arguing over God!" "What were they talking about? Clothes? Oh, can you believe it?" *laughter* "Wait, wait, look at this discussion- three weeks and no one has mentioned Hitler!" "Awwww, I'm so proud!"
 

BiscuitTrouser

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sumanoskae said:
Saying an emotion or opinion doesn't have a point is like getting angry with someone because they have cancer. You don't take up emotions on purpose or to work towards a goal, an emotion or opinion is an involuntary reaction.

Why do I think people are shit?, not because it's easy, just look at them. They're rude, ignorant, close minded, selfish, stupid, greedy, evil degenerates. There are exceptions of course, but they're not common and either end up trying to fit in and becoming idiots themselves, or they become misanthropic and lonely, and it takes time to pry them from their shells.

Pretending otherwise won't change anything, and ignoring a problem won't make it go away.

Besides, valuing everyone really just means that you value no one, and I'm not wasting my time on idiots when I could be spending it with the few exceptions.
The arrogance... it HURTS US.

Who ARE these idiot filth scum you think are so rubbish? Me. My parents? My friends? I dont understand why someone could feel so much better than everyone for no reason. Its just jugdemental and pretentious. Eugh. I dont really have words. Yes you are special, you are better than everyone, everyone else is a dirty filth drinking animal who should be euthanised but because you have that magic hate for them you are better for some arbitrary reason. Congratulations?

This further reinforces my misanthrope leper colony plan outlined above. Send em all away to live with the rest of the "enlightened" who believe themselves so much better than everyone. That way we all win. You can look down on us from afar still and we can be merry.

Misanthropy is looking to be another word for pretentious arrogance and a way of feeling better than everyone else by assuming you are one of the chosen none douches in a world of scum. What a shitty outlook. Also horrifically offencive, jugdemental, presumptuous and wrong.

Signed, A loving degenerate. Im sorry my claws couldnt reach my computer made of childrens crushed hopes and dreams. Sometimes i cant pour enough of my own evil into the fire to get it running.
 

xitel

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BiscuitTrouser said:
Or objectively focus on both and decide to further the good and combat the bad? Why are you so sure bad outnumbers good? Where is your studies and tests? Your interview with everyone? Dont tell me this opinion stems from... the media?! Surely not.
I could ask the same of you, y'know. I'm basing my opinions on personal experience, and the experiences of the people around me who have all experienced or seen bad far outweighing any sort of good. And it's just that. An opinion. And yet, you seem to think it's made completely invalid because it's not the same as yours. How about I posit the same question to you? Where are YOUR studies, your interviews? Don't accuse someone of being baseless on a topic when you yourself don't have any basis for your opinion either. Neither opinion is invalid because of that fact. I'm not saying you're wrong, if you haven't noticed.

As for your continued attacks on the media, they're starting to sound just silly. Yes, the media puts spin on everything, it's impossible to do otherwise. But that doesn't mean that the stories they're reporting on are just complete fabrications. The events actually happen. An intelligent person is able to read the news and separate the editorializing from the actual facts. That's the point of the media.

BiscuitTrouser said:
This further reinforces my misanthrope leper colony plan outlined above. Send em all away to live with the rest of the "enlightened" who believe themselves so much better than everyone. That way we all win. You can look down on us from afar still and we can be merry.
Yet again, where in any of this are we personally attacking you? And where is anyone claiming to be BETTER than anyone else? I'm a shit person, I'm fully willing to admit it. And yet, you're the one who is claiming that the world would be better off without a group of people, simply because their views differ from yours. You are in fact the one being arrogant, by refusing to even entertain a valid and legitimate view of someone else. You're saying that everyone who doesn't love the world is just flatout wrong, for no reason. That is arrogance. Stop thinking everything is a personal attack on you, and stop trying to insult people in order to belittle their point so you don't have to consider it in a valid and intelligent manner.
 

Dr Snakeman

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zelda2fanboy said:
I was a misanthrope, but then I made out with a girl for the first time last week. Really changes a person's outlook. Before I saw a universe with absolutely nothing to offer me, but the same misery I was seeing every damn day. Now I see a place where at any moment, a woman can remove her top and let me touch her boobs.
Hahahaha YES! Best possible reason for an attitude improvement.

Anyway... yeah, OP, misanthropy is stupid. There have been many, many threads lately discussing that fact. Life is good (mostly), and people aren't as bad as many seem to think they are. But they aren't inherently good, either. People are neutral; they have the potential for great good or evil, and it is up to them to decide which route they'll go.

I speak from experience here, as a "recovering pessimist".
 

BiscuitTrouser

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xitel said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
Or objectively focus on both and decide to further the good and combat the bad? Why are you so sure bad outnumbers good? Where is your studies and tests? Your interview with everyone? Dont tell me this opinion stems from... the media?! Surely not.
I could ask the same of you, y'know. I'm basing my opinions on personal experience, and the experiences of the people around me who have all experienced or seen bad far outweighing any sort of good. And it's just that. An opinion. And yet, you seem to think it's made completely invalid because it's not the same as yours. How about I posit the same question to you? Where are YOUR studies, your interviews? Don't accuse someone of being baseless on a topic when you yourself don't have any basis for your opinion either. Neither opinion is invalid because of that fact. I'm not saying you're wrong, if you haven't noticed.

As for your continued attacks on the media, they're starting to sound just silly. Yes, the media puts spin on everything, it's impossible to do otherwise. But that doesn't mean that the stories they're reporting on are just complete fabrications. The events actually happen. An intelligent person is able to read the news and separate the editorializing from the actual facts. That's the point of the media.
The media reports fairly accurately actually. Its just its hardly going to report on that organ donation that saved a girls life, or that man who gave blood and saved a terminal patient. Its going to focus on the war or the fire or the riots, and maybe rightly so. But it makes the world look worse than it actually is. Im not claiming there is more nice than bad, im saying assuming you know is silly, i make no claim to a lovey dovey flowery world full of bunnies. It is what it is with a mix of people everwhere some good some bad in different ratios and the best you can do is try and be a good person while being nice to everyone around you no matter who they are. My opinion isnt drawn from anytihng because im not making a massive assertion. I accept the balence and the variety of life and say any broad statement on the nature of any one thing as large as "people" is a waste of time and more than likely wrong.

Misanthropy seems to basically flawed on this point. Sweeping generalisations are always always wrong. I cant argue with your opinion. But its a FACT that the world isnt all bad or all good. Or have any particular leaning either way.
 

Iron Mal

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retyopy said:
Oh, sure, on a higher level, I do. Humans suck, life is pain, etc.
Then don't you know the answer of your question and therefore don't need to have it explained to you?

But on a more practical level, you just make no sense to me, and heres why: Life is so much nicer if you have a positive outlook!
I'm sure plenty of misanthroptic people do have positive outlooks (hell, I'm overly a cynical and pessimistic person and yet at times I do have a positive outlook, mostly because I tend to keep the bad and good things in perspective of each other).

And while you may believe a positive outlook to be something of a positive this may not be the case for everyone (some people prefer being moody, negative and grumpy just like some people actually enjoy getting frustrated and getting into arguements).

Just go out into the world, be a nice person, and do something fun.
Being a misantrhope doesn't automatically make someone a boring, miserable, anti-social arsehole (you can hate human contact and yet still be nice and considerate to others).

What's the point of hating humanity? Wheres that going to get you?
Isn't it just as bad (if not worse) to be overtly friendly and welcoming to everyone?

Some people just don't like other people, it doesn't have to have an overhanging goal or objective to it (just as people who are of the opposite extreme don't have a desired result they expect from loving everyone, it's just what they do).

EXPLAIN YOURSELVES!
Doesn't everyone hate humanity to a certain extent? There must be people you really can't stand the presence of or just can't take being in the same room with?

Misanthropes are that but with a bigger list of 'people I don't like' (which when you think about it isn't that weird or unreasonable).