Moana - Another Disney Princess Movie

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
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Apr 4, 2020
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Spoilers abound:

Just saw it and...ugh. I did not like it. The beginning was too long. 4 songs before anything even happens, and when finally the two are together, they go fight some crab kinda, then go resolve the movie. There is no real growth or flow. I liked when Maui was like "WTF doesnt the ocean just fix everything" cause thats a good point...which they dont answer. Just pointing out your plot holes doesnt negate them being massive plot holes.

And ok, Disney songs...be good again. Just having the protagonist sing a shitty pop song 10 times doesnt count, nor does singing songs because you need to sing. Watch Beauty and the Beast if you want to know how to motivate a song, or Aladdin. Songs were usually at crucial plot points that actually added to the story.

The first song I supposed wanted to be like Little Town but wasnt. Hercules now that I think of it also used songs well.

And maybe show Maui rethinking bailing, instead of showing Moana giving up and just having Maui Deus Ex back in.

I was hoping the film would be more adventurous. I thought it was going to be alot of Moana and Maui traveling the seas fighting monsters and seeing strange things. They clearly build up this world of monsters, and we get...a giant crab and some coconut people.
 

go-10

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I have not seen Frozone or Tangela but I saw this movie because there was nothing else in the theater and I was positively impressed. The Rock singing You're Welcome has been on repeat far too many times already and the crab that sings like Bowie is insane! I really liked the movie and I'm now wondering if I should go back and watch the other 2...

also "if you wear a dress and have an animal friend, you're a princess" line is by far the fumiest line in the whole movie.
 

Kiall

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I re-watched "The Golden Child" from the 80's yesterday, which has a black male lead (Eddie Murphy) along with a co-lead asian woman who puts him to shame in all physical aspects as well as wisdom. Diversity in media hasn't been a problem for a long ass time.
'I saw a film made in the 80's with coloured people in it QED racism doesn't exist.'

Lack of diversity isn't even a thing, it's just white guilt manifested by know-it-all teenagers who have learned how to shout loud enough for the mainstream media to listen, because no one bothered to discipline them or teach them about respect or humility.
'I am old and know no actual teenagers.'

Even if there were an issue, a call for diversity in movies and games just breeds token characters with no depth or meaning behind them. The disadvantages outweigh the benefits, when the mainstream thinks it's alright to belittle, bully and accuse anyone who disagrees with them with terrible labels.
'I have an opinion. I need no facts.'
 

Kiall

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This is a peculiar argument to unpack. The question I always ask of people who have a problem with affirmative action policies is whether they also complain about poorer people being entitled to benefits, or the physically disabled being provided with wheelchair access? If they don't, then they are obviously happy to accept the philosophy of affirmative action in those areas, but only get annoyed when it comes to looking at race in a similar way.
While your argument is intriguing I would argue the examples are flawed. I support benefits for poor people as I would prefer a fellow human to be clothed, fed and sheltered. I consider this a fairly basic level. Affirmative action goes to several higher levels i.e. preferential treatment in academia and lower barriers to the job market. The two are, in my opinion, too dissimilar to be a good comparison.

The second argument I believe is more tenuous. While I'm willing to accept the premise that being non-white in a predominantly white environment may come with some handicaps (excuse the pun) it would be quite frankly silly to say it is comparable with not actually being able to walk. I feel comfortable in stating that needing a wheelchair and being white puts you at a much lower level on what you can accomplish than if you were an able-bodied black man.
 

faefrost

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Darth Rosenberg said:
Hawki said:
It's similar to Frozen. I think it's a pretty good film with pretty good characters, with pretty good character development. The idea of it being representative of LGBT individuals (with Elsa "coming out") was a concept that never reached me until after the film had run its course. That interpretation is perfectly valid, and hardly messes with my own enjoyment of the film, but I have to ask, is Frozen well liked because of inclusionism? Or is it well liked because it's genuinely good?
I don't think comparing Moana and Frozen is particularly useful at all, at least on that - LGBT - count.

I like the idea of a queer reading of Frozen, at least sentimentally and emotionally. But when you look at how magic's being used in it, it all rather breaks down. Elsa is 'the only gay mage in the village [https://youtu.be/KrlzaBNgz-M]', so what's magic supposed to represent? Orientation, or internalised guilt? If the former, she really is the only gay in the village which is the direct opposite of an inclusive narrative, and if the latter than why do her powers still work at the end when she's learnt to accept who she is?

It's generally considered the trader is gay, so does he have powers? And if so, what the hell kind of wacky inclusive narrative is that which makes queer identity synonymous with incredibly destructive powers that they need to control lest they doom an entire realm?

If you're looking for actual evidence in the film to corroborate a reading ("Conceal it, don't feel it. Don't let it show" seems very persuasive, but the actual thematic use of magic is not), then with Frozen there's simply not enough which coheres, and not enough details to tie any loose ends together. So I'd say magic ultimately doesn't represent or symbolise anything in Frozen - it's just magic in a fantasy world.

I feel the writers wanted to have a film where people could project all kinds of things onto, but to make any of them 'work' you have to hammer square pegs into round holes. So the only thing that marks it as inclusive/progressive is its rather feminist rejection of having the female lead/queen defined by male need/love as well as the depiction of positive sorority.

And as to your last question: do you really think the Frozen phenomenon could've occurred just off the back of its perceived inclusivity? Was that why so many kids around the world demanded either the film itself or Let It Go be played on a loop? It was hugely successful and is well liked simply because it was fun, well made, and had more going on for it thematically and narratively than most Disney films, or most mainstream films in general.
Ugh! I know the LGBTQXYZETC populations like to find inspiration in Frozen. But it falls apart on examination, because that's not the message that it was queued up to send. Frozen's underlying subtext is about Mental Illness. About Mental Illness in the family. About how hiding it and shutting it away is bad. In the movie Elsa isn't gay. She's a stand in for Schizophrenia. And this isn't internet theorizing. This is what the director has openly said his intent was. Elsa is Boo Radley. Not Rock Hudson.

As far as Moana... I confess in these reviews I see terms like 'Diversity" and "Culture" thrown around a lot. I don't see anything indicating that Moana is herself an interesting and engaging character. Which seems to be the problem with modern Hollywood movies. The same Diversity push that is demanding that they proliferate with an assortment of female leads, preferably non white, also imposes so many rules and clauses that it prevents them from doing anything fun or onteresting with them. And ultimately prevents them from having any actual character arcs. She can't be an asshole. She can't be a coward. She cant be clumsy or incompetant. Luke Skywalker was a whiny little ***** throughout Star Wars. His first real moment of growing out of that was when he shot down his first Tie Fighter from the Falcon's belly turret. At which point he was taken down a peg by his elders. At least Elsa and Anna had flaws that they had to grow past. I hope I am wrong but everything I have seen about Moana makes me fear she is another Rey. A character everybody projects their wannabe's onto instead of an actual well written well rounded character.