Modder Proves That SimCity Works Offline

Vigormortis

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Nov 21, 2007
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As much as I saw this coming, I'm surprised it took this long.

And now, I'm going to sit back with my drink and bucket of popcorn and await the EA apologists, hoping they show up to chime in. I can not wait to see them attempt to spin this news into something "good" for EA.

Perhaps something like: "See? See?! EA supports the modding community! They're still the good guys in all this!"

Or maybe: "Now, when EA said, 'requires an online connection to function', what they really meant was, it requires a broken online connection to motivate the gaming community to patch in an offline mode for us. They're just trying to get the gaming community interested in programming!"

[sub](more likely, they'll just say something negative or derogatory about Valve, Activision, or Ubisoft instead)[/sub]
 

Samurai Silhouette

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This lying scares the fuck out of me. If the "top video publisher" can boldface lie to our faces and pull shit off like this, I wonder how many other things we're lied to about that we depend on a daily basis.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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Vigormortis said:
And now, I'm going to sit back with my drink and bucket of popcorn and await the EA apologists, hoping they show up to chime in. I can not wait to see them attempt to spin this news into something "good" for EA.
Really? Have you not seen how every single thread that could even remotely be related back to EA has gone over the last few months? Any "EA apologist" left around here is probably going to just keep their mouth shut just so they don't get crucified for being worse than Satanic Hitler eating babies for breakfast.

I don't even like EA and I've started defending them lately, because to be quite frank, all of the haters are actually worse at this point. Yes, even worse than their stupid always-online DRM that was only there so they could arbitrarily limit the city-size for pushing multi-player. Yes, even worse than whatever they may or may not have done to Bioware. Yes, even worse than microtransactions and co-op in Dead Space.
 

chadachada123

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Dumoras said:
DVS BSTrD said:
Poor Lucy Bradshaw
Another woman brought down in her prime because she failed to get her tubes tied.
thank you for bringing a taste of sexism into this argument.
It could just as easily have been a guy. "Poor [X], brought down in his prime because his malformed splooge didn't make it into the trashcan where it belonged."

OT: Good to see EA being shown to be the lying assholes they are. It's just too bad the primary consumer base, uneducated kids and casuals, don't understand that their purchases are supporting terrible practices.
 
Aug 1, 2010
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Can't play offline they said..... Needs the always on DRM they said....

And how fast was that beatdown? A week and a half?

If I could borrow the expression,

[image/]http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/archive/8/81/20070225072815!PWNED!.jpg[/IMG]

That's right EA. You go to your room and think about what you said.
 

Vigormortis

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shrekfan246 said:
Really? Have you not seen how every single thread that could even remotely be related back to EA has gone over the last few months? Any "EA apologist" left around here is probably going to just keep their mouth shut just so they don't get crucified for being worse than Satanic Hitler eating babies for breakfast.

I don't even like EA and I've started defending them lately, because to be quite frank, all of the haters are actually worse at this point. Yes, even worse than their stupid always-online DRM that was only there so they could arbitrarily limit the city-size for pushing multi-player. Yes, even worse than whatever they may or may not have done to Bioware. Yes, even worse than microtransactions and co-op in Dead Space.
I have seen most of those threads. I'd still rather listen to the detractors.

Why? Because the worst of both sides; the haters and the apologists; have done their fair share of lying and twisting of the truth in their attempts to paint a skewed image of EA. For better or worse.

However, the longer time goes on, and the more info that comes to light on EAs "doings", the more the detractors are proven right and the more foolish the apologists look.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Like I'd said in other threads on the matter: I'm all for giving kudos where kudos are due. Hell, I'll even be one of the first to give props to EA for doing the right thing.

But those moments are, more and more, fewer and farther between. And, I'm certainly not going to sit here and argue that EA "isn't that bad" simply because there are some in the community that are attempting to paint a worse image of it.

[sub]Not that they need to at this point. The real news is bad enough.[/sub]
 

chiefohara

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Bvenged said:
Holy shit, you can play a singleplayer game masked as multiplayer, offline?

I don't want to sound patronising, nor do I want to embarrass them, but has anybody told EA this yet? They might need to know so they can stop telling us the contrary.
The Youtube video's were posted on the Simcity forums, and EA deleted the threads almost immediately with little to no explanation.

This thread is currently up demanding answers

http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/9366688.page

EA haven't said/done anything in response to it yet.



As for my own two cents on this.

EA, you've been caught Red Handed. Raw Greed led ye to do this... complete utter greed.

All the hard work put in since 1982 building a reputation establishing industry standards and fostering good consumer relations, shat on and completely undone by mickey mouse Executives and bullshit business policies that screw customers instead of value them.

Pressure execs or worse hire ones that promise short term results always always always always do it at the cost of the long term. Worst of all, the bastards that instigate this are the ones who screw everyone that originally made the company great to pay for their own golden parachute when it dies.

Have fun being the new THQ, EA.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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Desert Punk said:
CriticKitten said:
You seem to assume that I'm oblivious to what EA does.

I know very well what their track record is with developers they've bought over the years. I know very well what their attitude toward their customers is. I know very well how much they try to forcibly suck money out of people who already bought their games.

But you know what? They're a video game publisher. Comparing them to the Bank of America or fucking Enron? Really? Video games are super serious business, amirite?

It's not about what they "deserve". Because they don't deserve all of the stupid, petty, insulting hatred they get. They do things that deserve to be criticized, yes. But when people are throwing out comments like "As long as a game has the EA logo on it, I'm going to assume it's shit", we've moved past the point of logical criticism. And that's where I stop caring about what all of the detractors are saying, because they're trying to make things personal with a multi-million dollar corporation that doesn't give a single shit what one person on an internet forum says.

So yes, when people make ridiculous claims like "EA bans people for asking for refunds" when it's been proven to not actually be the case, I'm going to defend them.
 

DelinquentTurtle

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EA's most likely response:

Well of course you can "play" it all by yourself with one city but what we ACTUALLY meant was it was not possible to play with all of the regions/leaderboards and other features you get with online play which is what we would consider actually playing the game. Pfft.. who plays a game by themselves these days. That is totally what we meant when we said you can't play the game offline.
 

Cpu46

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Sep 21, 2009
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A shame really, I love the sim city franchise but I have to watch the poor thing drown as EA and Maxis firmly state that it can totally handle the deep end of the pool despite everyone else trying to tell them otherwise.

Hopefully someone will get hit with common sense and patch a bunch of offline play options into the game and eventually make the cities bigger. I can appreciate what they were trying to do with the smaller cities and online neighbour connections but that is something to be done with a spin off or added multiplayer part of the game, not an entire game of the main series that used to be all about huge cities that you made by yourself.
 

V da Mighty Taco

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DVS BSTrD said:
Poor Lucy Bradshaw
Another woman brought down in her prime because she failed to get her tubes tied.
Really, DVS? As much as I normally like your fairly witty posts and well-deserved EA bashing (Bradshaw is technically a part of EA), I do not how this ties into the topic at hand even slightly and it just comes across as you insulting someone simply for the sake of it. Unless there's some double-entendre that I'm not seeing, I have to call you out on this. You really are much better than this, DVS BSTrD.

On Topic: You mean everyone fucking called it and EA / Bradshaw lied through their teeth?


At least this confirms just how full of shit EA actually is. EA's been known for their dishonesty, but this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that EA / Maxis flat-out lied about the game. Every single thing about this game that was in the marketing - from the game being impossible to run offline to each individual Sim's lives being unique - was a complete fabrication and people can objectively prove it. Hopefully people will remember this next time and at the very least exercise more caution (like not buying day-1) when buying EA products, but maybe that is but a fool's dream.
 

Ldude893

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Goddamn, I'm already through 25 buckets of metaphorical popcorn and this runaway train of a disaster is still going. This is the most beautiful shitstorm that I've ever seen EA have to shower in.
 

O maestre

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Seriously i think EA is one of the few companies that vividly works for their "worst company in the world" award. It boggles the mind, that they seriously didn't think that the effin PC community would find a workaround, and a legal one at that. Not only do they think we are dumb, they actually believe that we are dumber than them.

cant wait to see what kind of bull shit spin they are gonna put on this.

on a side note, I really sincerely hope against hope that my fellow gamers will punish from this by boycotting them, your money is your vote, and every single cent you give to them is an approval of their business practises. Not even Apple is this sleazy.
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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Desert Punk said:
So they openly lie to their customers and the public, get proven lying and still "Nope ima defend dem! Dey dont deserve da hate dey get!"

Well alrighty then

I suppose some people can stomach being lied to again, and again. And sure, they wont really care what one person says, but people tend to start adding up if they are all saying one thing, and when a bunch of people are talking about them, and hating them, that tends to be bad PR. So yes, once voice when added to others can make a difference, and not understanding that takes a lot of self deception.
Okay, please point out one instance in this thread where I've actually said more than "I would/will defend EA". I'm not defending them about this particular subject. Though I wasn't lied to, because I never bought SimCity.

Actually, don't. Your attempt at misrepresenting my post and maligning my intelligence has proven that it's not worth it for me to keep engaging in this line of conversation.
 

shintakie10

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I was actually under the impression that this was more along the lines of Diablo 3's system where everythin was on Maxis/EA's servers which would make it incredibly difficult and time consumin to pirate.

Is that not actually the case?
 

chiefohara

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shrekfan246 said:
Desert Punk said:
CriticKitten said:
You seem to assume that I'm oblivious to what EA does.

I know very well what their track record is with developers they've bought over the years. I know very well what their attitude toward their customers is. I know very well how much they try to forcibly suck money out of people who already bought their games.

But you know what? They're a video game publisher. Comparing them to the Bank of America or fucking Enron? Really? Video games are super serious business, amirite?

It's not about what they "deserve". Because they don't deserve all of the stupid, petty, insulting hatred they get. They do things that deserve to be criticized, yes. But when people are throwing out comments like "As long as a game has the EA logo on it, I'm going to assume it's shit", we've moved past the point of logical criticism. And that's where I stop caring about what all of the detractors are saying, because they're trying to make things personal with a multi-million dollar corporation that doesn't give a single shit what one person on an internet forum says.

So yes, when people make ridiculous claims like "EA bans people for asking for refunds" when it's been proven to not actually be the case, I'm going to defend them.
I don't think you are defending the people you think you are defending.

There was already a whistle blower from Maxis calling bullshit on EA's Claims

http://www.gamefront.com/simcity-doesnt-need-servers-says-maxis-insider/

THQ Had a similar letter from a ground level/blue collar worker attacking management

http://www.complex.com/video-games/2012/01/ex-thq-employee-fires-off-angry-letter-alleging-serious-mismanagement

EA was made great by developers and people who genuinely cared for the industry and for the games and products they made.
Sadly they are now at the mercy of bastards like John Riccitiello, who are there to make money come hell or high water.

Studios like Bioware, Maxis, PopCap, Westwood... i will defend. Those are the people who helped make gaming what we all know and love today, Publishers like EA however i won't defend. EA have deteriorated to the stage where they are exploiting those studios as much as they are exploiting the consumers. They Buy a studio and then proceed to milk the brandname and the fanbase until there is nothing left. Thats not good business practice... that's not contributing to the industry or to the gaming medium as a whole.

Its just being a parasite... and i will continue to percieve them as such, especially when news such as the inspiration for this thread comes to light.

Fuck EA.
 

ThriKreen

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Posted this elsewhere [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.403457.16674147], but no, this doesn't actually work. I'll just copy/paste it here to break down the technical issues:

You can't load or save, and the 20min timeout is there to prevent too many actions from queuing up in the local cache before it sends it off to the server for processing for the region play. It seems the game saves via an action log (basically a "diff" of the city, to reduce network traffic), while the game loads the whole city state from the server. Quite different processes for complete offline support - you'd need to figure out a way to translate the actions into the complete city and get the game to load from that.

(Edit: clarify, if you were offline the whole time, it can't save and reload your city, have to be online to do so)

Not saying it's impossible, just, not as easy as they think it is.

The reason for it being some sort of action log is to allow the server to validate the data for the region play to prevent cheating for regular mode for the challenges.

(Edit: this is probably why the servers were bogged. It's not just storing and sending the city's exports and imports for region play. But it seems too many cities and having to process and validate the actions in the database. This is why cheetah speed was removed temporarily, less speed, less updates for the server to process.)

Oh, and still no region play, which, like it or not, is still part of the game's overall design.

Not saying it's the best way to go, would be nice to allow sandbox mode to be offline though, since it'll ignore any validation anyway.

Also on the city boundaries, remember not everyone is a hardcore gamer that has a computer that can play a top of the line UE3 game or Crysis 3 at max quality. I know a number of Sim fans who don't have top of the line computers, so it's to provide a common baseline for the region challenges. Then add in all the agents and pathfinding and rendering and yadda yadda.

Wouldn't be fair to have say, a leaderboard challenge for reaching 2.5m population, then allow someone with an i7 + GTX 580 Ti + 16GB RAM to play in a 8km^2 city and just zone residential across the whole place, while someone on a laptop might have struggle on the 2km^2 plot.

Not the best way of going about it, mind you, but I understand why it was done for balance purposes.

I would have perhaps done it along the lines of classifying the regions based on TOTAL playable area size, and then offered various sized city plots configurations to fill that amount. Then limit the challenges to those classes (it is a challenge after all).

Reach 2.5m population on Class 'A' regions, total area size of say, 4km^2:
- 4 x 2x2 cities
- 1 x 4x4 city
- 1 x 2x2, 2 x 2x3 cities.
- etc.

But then you could run into gameplay balances, like do you still limit the 4x4 area with 3 streetcar terminals, or allow them to go up to the proportional 12? Maybe 6, like +1 terminal for each equivalent standard size addition? But ... would it be fair? And how would a sim path find across the big map? What would the CPU load be like with 10,000 of them trying to do so? We know the AI is pretty stupid, but how does it scale up?

Obviously, not everyone's interested in the region play and challenges, and some/a lot resent being forced into it. Maxis really should have pushed this as like SimCity Online just to temper expectations, instead of regular SimCity.
Updates since I originally posted it:

- Have to revise the 10k number. Seems the game has some moving % for actual population vs. represented sims (obviously for performance reasons). So at like <1000, it's represented at 1:1 pop/sim (?), but a 100k population has about 10k running around, or 10:1. So far exploiting some deficiencies in the sim logic, the highest I've seen people do is ~650k? for it's fudged population, but I'm not sure how that translates to actual sims - not like I'd replicate the city and then pause and count them! You'd probably have to scale it up to 100k or more of actual sims to see a performance hit, but that would depend on your computer.

- on the timeout, it's an arbitrary limit to prevent you from playing too long without saving the city state in case something breaks. Kind of like automatic checkpoint saving, then discovering your memory card is full - the game should inform you it can't save anymore and boot you out, to prevent you from losing the past two hours of play. As well as make sure the city log to be updated isn't huge. In this guy's case, his mod removes that timer, but you still can't load without being online.

What they'd have to do is update the save/load system so instead of saving and submitting the city's log, it just saves and loads the whole city state when you hit the button. It's a far cry from merely upping the timer's grace period and saying the game works offline.