Modern Warfare 2 Was 2009's Most Pirated Game

[nYuknYuknYuk]

Seriously dude?

Let me give you an example of how messed up your logic is.

You're in a store. You see a new kind of candy bar that you have never tried before. You're not sure if you want to buy it because there is no one around who has tried it to tell you if its good and there are no samples. Is it OK for you to steal the candy?

Is it a 60$ candy bar?

Lets say for the sake of argument that it is. Would that change anything? Is it realy less wrong to steal something based on the price tag? You are not entitled to eat a candy bar and you are not entiteld to play a video game.

Does the candy bar lack dedicated servers, console commands, and mod support?

 

[Pyode]

Both of you are unbelievably terrible at making correct analogies. Everyone always forgets that piracy is the duplication of information. Information is an unlimited resource, and comparing it to a physical item always results in some fallacy. The analogy you both need to be using is the magazine stand. Is it ok/not ok to read a magazine at a stand? You can get the info you were looking for, and it doesn't cost the stand owner any money if he can still sell the magazine after you've looked at it. You still have the option to buy the magazine for your collection or to finish reading it because you liked what you skimmed through. There is no theft unless you go home and start publishing what you just read into your own magazine and tried selling that.

Or giving it way to people who weren't at the stand. Also, if a merchant decides to let you do that, it's their prerogative but if they decided not to do it wouldn't automatically give you the right to steal it.

Anyway dude, my quote was in response to this statement.

A lot of money goes into making TV's too, but no one is going to buy one if they can't try it out at the store, or only go by reviews in a magazine, then be unable to return it if it's unsatisfactory, and finally be told to piss off if they complain about the situation.

Also, this.

I know what you are trying to say. Your saying that, because the product is digital, copping it doesn't actually incur a cost to the developer. In other words "No harm no foul."

To that I say bullshit.

The actual production of disks is ridiculously cheap. I'm talking pennies per disk. When you buy a disk you're not paying $60 for a single burned disk and a shitty plastic case. In the case of digital distribution it's even cheaper.

No, you are paying for the literally thousands of hours of work put into a game. You are paying for the computers, dev systems, and many other items that go into the development of the game.

Does the candy bar lack dedicated servers, console commands, and mod support?

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that PC gamers are entitled to pay the same price, or in some cases less, for more content than console gamers.

 

[Signa]

-snip-

You have a good point, but there are some problems with that. MW2 was already a sequel and yet way more people pirated it then the original. Not to mention the fact that the franchise has been around for a long time now with Infinity Ward having developed many of the installments. If someone wanted to find out the Call of Duty franchise was good, then they could have gotten one of the older games for cheap and use that to help make a decision.

All I can say to that is that I'm speaking very generally here, and not citing specifics. If I wanted to delve into specifics, then I would also need to know the breakdown of the personal motivations of everyone who pirated the game, and if they bought the game after pirating it. Looking at the numbers does look bad, but they are quite out of context. That's one of the things that was linked earlier here said, how important context is.

A reviewer for a major site went through all this shit just to get a review copy so he could, you know, do his job and give players some small insight on whether or not it was worth buying. What was behind Doom 3's massive torrent numbers? Anticipation, hands down. It was, of course, followed up by massive disappointment, but that's another deal. The point i'm driving at here is that the pirate release was on July 31st, 2004. The official release was on August 3rd. The demo? The first hands-on taste of Doom-mother-fucking-3 that didn't involve piracy? September 19th, more than a month-and-a-half after release - 47 days to be exact. In fact, people on the "anti-piracy" side love bringing up Doom 3's torrent numbers, but none of them seem to have ever noticed this. People had good reason to wonder if it'd even run on their hardware, and yet there was no way for them to find out without downloading the pirate release; remember, PC games are generally impossible to return. On top of that, it was released with an MSRP of $54.99. Why gee, Ward, that's a pretty unique way to harness the hype that was behind the game for those make-or-break release sales.

...

As the perfect coda to the whole debacle, the game shipped with copy protection that barfed if Daemon Tools or CloneCD were installed on the user's machine. The people downloading the pirate copy, naturally, did not have to deal with this.

But despite the record-breaking torrent numbers, this bit from GameInformer claims that Doom 3 was the best selling game for the week of its release in the US, UK, Australia, France, Germany, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. The last one, of course, being the dastardly host of The Pirate Bay.

...

Furthermore, this claims that Doom 3 was the second best-selling game of 2004. And this has CEO Todd Hollenshead saying that not only was it their best-selling game to date, but that the sales were evenly split between the PC and Xbox release. And the sales number i could pull up says it's around 3.5 million, although I can't find anything reliable on whether that's PC only, or PC and Xbox sales combined.

Frankly, it seems that without context, 50,000 leechers downloading the warez release sounds like good evidence on the damages of piracy, but in context it sounds like evidence against such damages.

My point being is that the people who downloaded the game could have done so for so many reasons that 2.4 million downloads could translate to any one of 2.4 million different possibilities of added sales figures, one of which being zero.

On top of that, as I have said before in this thread, even if it was a completely new IP sometimes making a purchase is a risk. If you are so unsure about whether or not something is good or worth the price, don't buy it or wait for the price to drop. You don't have to buy the game the week it comes out and you don't have to buy the game at all.

See though, that's what is so attractive about piracy; there is no risk! If a new game came out that I had no clue how it played, I could download it, love it, and they buy it risk-free because I already know I loved it. Conversely, if I hated it, I could just delete it and never play it again, and it doesn't affect the developer because they never had my sale to begin with. As a consumer, I am given a choice to buy something or not buy something. When it comes to large gaming expenses, I'm likely to weigh the unknown benefits of owning it to the known issues of being $50 poorer. If piracy wasn't an option, who's to say I would ever buy the game at all. And by that, the developer has certainly lost a sale.

Buying a game (or a movie and CD for that matter) shouldn't be a trip to Las Vegas. Gambling with your entertainment budget is just silly unless gambling is your entertainment budget, and that's only for people over 18. There are plenty of teen aged gamers out there that are lucky to get enough money to afford 2 games a year. Is it fair (or even technically legal?) to make them gamble on a game purchase if they are going to be stuck with it for 6 months? Anyway, this is neither here nor there, as it doesn't really add to the discussion.

I'm off to bed Pyode. Thanks for remaining civil and not degrading this to a flame war since we are fully on opposite ends of the spectrum of this issue.

 

[Gmano]

Note: not all of them would have played it, especially if they are part of a private tracker.

also, many take the time to play the game as a trial, especially since the torrent was out before the demo. (See: Spore, the pirate version came out over a week before release, I know MANY people who took that, played the game and then decided to buy).

And finally, with a launch as controversial as this, you will have many who are unsure as to whether to buy the game, so they pirate.

 

[thatstheguy]

I would never pirate COD6. I have much better games to download illegally...

You should probably forget I said that.

 

[Gmano]

Starbucks isn't $60, it isn't a form of media that can be downloaded. Piracy is similar to stealing but it's a far more complicated scheme. It's more akin to buying the ingredients and making a coffee identical to how they make it at Starbucks, which of course isn't stealing so even that isn't a direct comparison. Far closer than yours though.

How is that even remotely close? The only way that that would be "akin" to it was if someone went out, got a team of game designers and artists, payed the literally thousands of dollars for all the computers, software, and dev kits, and sat there with a copy of MW2 and replicated it texture by texture, map by map, game mechanic by game mechanic and then released the finished product. Even then it would still be stealing because there are things called intellectual property laws that protect peoples ideas and creations.

P.S. You still used retroactive wrong. I think you mean proactive

Actually, i agree with his metaphor. You see, Starbucks puts millions of dollars into it's coffee ingredient and coffee making process. (just as the designers make a game). If someone bought some Starbucks, went home and put it through a machine to analyze the components and then released an ingredient list, or a free filter for your home coffee machine that will make it taste like starbucks, then you have a similar scenario.

Except in this case, many who take this home filter will go on to decide they like the taste, and will buy coffee legitimately.

Also, you should note that this coffee is an unlimited resource, and the filter will not like steal any other coffee or something, just as copying a file does no harm to the original.

 

[Charli]

Well this is unremarkably unsurprising... It's really just a matter of averaging out the Ratio of piraters and total legitimate sales made in most video games.

I'm guessing somewhere on the 1:4 scale to be really pessemistic...
Oh well, one day, the gaming industry will be Hacker-fool-proof, and then it will stomp on hollywood with it's superior popularity and laugh.

hehe...stomp. celebraties. lol.

yeah I'm not funny at 9am...

 

[nYuknYuknYuk]

snip

If someone is dying, you aren't ENTITLED to help them, are you? Not in the US, at least.

However, my candy bar analogies were kind of jokes. Sort of. I'm not a PC gamer, but IW screwed them over. I was just kind of making fun of how everybody was complaining. On the whole piracy thing, yes it is illegal and yes it is wrong. But people still do it, and I don't blame them.

To use the candy bar analogy again, if candy bars could come out of your... say your printer for free but it was illegal, would you do it? (They are particularly scrumptious candy bars) How about if you would never get caught? I bet a lot of people would go for it, not with the intention to hurt the candy store owner's business, but to get free candy bars. That is why I don't get mad at people who do pirate. Usually their intentions aren't those of harm, it's just that they are sometimes ignorant of the consequences of their actions, or they just don't give a rat's ass about morals(I JUST WANT MW2 FOR FREE LOLOLOL ). As for me, I don't pirate unless it's a game I already have on console that I pirate for the PC for mods, and even that I don't do unless there is a mod I really find interesting. I believe that is acceptable for me because it doesn't hurt people(I wouldn't buy a game just for the mods)and it is within MY morals system.

Thanks for remaining civil and not degrading this to a flame war since we are fully on opposite ends of the spectrum of this issue.

Yes, thank you. It is... refreshing to be able to have a civil erm.. disagreement with someone on the internet without it degrading to the personal level, rather than the topic itself.

 

[nYuknYuknYuk]

Whoops.. Double post.

 

[Pyode]

If someone is dying, you aren't ENTITLED to help them, are you? Not in the US, at least.

Not to sound like a Grammar Nazi, but I think the word you are looking for is "obligated."
Unless you wanted to say "If you are dying, you aren't ENTITLED to be helped, are you?"

Anyway, as for the rest of your statement.

Freedom of consequences does not equal freedom from moral responsibility.

I could also go into a store and steal a candy bar and, at the end of the day, the store owner probably wouldn't even notice. But it still wouldn't be OK. You can say "oh that's different because he paid for that bar". All I can say to that is that, if I where to indulge in the free candy bar printer, a hell of a lot more bars that he paid for would go unsold.

Thanks for remaining civil and not degrading this to a flame war since we are fully on opposite ends of the spectrum of this issue.

You too man. And you as well ianrocks.

Whoops.. Double post.

I don't know why but I have never had that happen to me. Of course I don't usually use forums that much. The Escapist should add in the ability to delete you're own posts. That would help the issue a lot.

 

[Caliostro]

Lets say for the sake of argument that it is. Would that change anything? Is it realy less wrong to steal something based on the price tag? You are not entitled to eat a candy bar and you are not entiteld to play a video game.

[...]

I will say again. You are not entitled to play this game. If you don't like something that the developer did DON'T PLAY THE GAME.

The developer doing something you don't like does not cause them to forfeit their rights.

Oh stop parroting sentences the media gives you.

Here's some questions for you:

Can you tell me exactly how many people that pirated the game would have bought it if they hadn't managed to pirate it?
Can you tell me how many of those people could have afforded the game anyways?
Can you tell me exactly how many of those didn't buy it out of principle, but still downloaded it to "give it a chance", to see if it was worth buying anyways?
Can you tell me how many people actually bought the game after pirating it?
And how many people bought it through word of mouth after talking about it with someone who did pirate it?
Can you then tell me exactly the differential amount of money influenced by piracy?

Can you provide any of those values exactly? No, you can't. Neither can IW. You know why? Because "piracy" is a slippery slope that the whole business has conveniently turned into the #1 scapegoat. Hell, you can't even objectively tell whether it's more positive or negative.

 

[Cyberjester]

Which version? Console and it will be dumbed down to their level with simplistic controls and an enemy AI so mind-numbingly brilliant it will be the savior of insomniacs everywhere. On PC it will be a port of the console version, but it's flaws will be so enlarged that the merest glimpse will put you into a coma for the rest of your life.

Seems to be the pattern nowadays anyway.

Do you speak of the same Mafia II that is a sequel to Mafia which was so laughably superior on the PC? Ha, say I, ha!

They're making it for the consoles as well. It all depends whether they develop the game for the PC and port it, or develop it for the console and port it.
50/50 brilliant to pathetic. =P

Or I could just be a bitter cynical gamer disillusioned with the gaming industry..

 

[Low Key]

-snip-

I see your point, but their are problems with that.

First of all, I'm not saying its a bad idea to be able to let someone play a game before they buy it. It would be cool if I could download a full game for 5 days for a fraction of the cost and, if I don't buy the full copy, it completely deletes off my hard drive. The problem is there is no real secure way to do it so there is no way to rent PC games.

You also kind of shot yourself in the foot with the argument in regards to console games. You admitted that you can rent a console game. Then if you aren't sure about a game, don't buy it, rent it. Then, if you like it, go buy your own copy.

And even without all of that, you still don't have the right to steal it just because you don't want to take the risk of buying the game.

Renting games is only worth it if you do nothing buy play games. I don't. I have a job and responsibilities. It takes renting at least 2 games with a monthly service charge, which is what pretty much all rental providers are opting to do these days, to break even. I can barely play through one.

And I don't know if you are referring me directly or just making a general statement, but I don't pirate games.

 

[Pyode]

Oh stop parroting sentences the media gives you.

You don't know me and you don't know what articles or blogs I have and have not read, so I suggest you stop making completely baseless accusations and stick to the topic at hand.

Here's some questions for you:

Can you tell me exactly how many people that pirated the game would have bought it if they hadn't managed to pirate it?
Can you tell me how many of those people could have afforded the game anyways?
Can you tell me exactly how many of those didn't buy it out of principle, but still downloaded it to "give it a chance", to see if it was worth buying anyways?
Can you tell me how many people actually bought the game after pirating it?
And how many people bought it through word of mouth after talking about it with someone who did pirate it?
Can you then tell me exactly the differential amount of money influenced by piracy?

Can you provide any of those values exactly? No, you can't. Neither can IW. You know why? Because "piracy" is a slippery slope that the whole business has conveniently turned into the #1 scapegoat. Hell, you can't even objectively tell whether it's more positive or negative.

Your right, I can't give you any of these numbers but it doesn't matter because I'm not arguing about whether or not current piracy levels are having an effect, or how much of an effect they are having. Look back at every one of my posts in this thread. Not one of them has brought up or discussed that subject.

Next time you want to counter someones argument, make sure you're arguing about the same thing.

Now if you want to discuss the morality of pirating in general, feel free to rebut any of my previous statements in this thread.

Renting games is only worth it if you do nothing buy play games. I don't. I have a job and responsibilities. It takes renting at least 2 games with a monthly service charge, which is what pretty much all rental providers are opting to do these days, to break even. I can barely play through one.

And I don't know if you are referring me directly or just making a general statement, but I don't pirate games.

I'm sorry that the rental facilities around you suck, but it still wouldn't justify pirating.

And no, I was not refering directly to you. I was using the general "you." Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Nox13last]

http://www.modernwarfail2.com

If that site is anything to go by, I wouldn't even TORRENT it. I'd rather set my computer on fire, extract it's CPU with a shovel, and sacrifice it to some defunct god.
It'll be healthier than running that steaming pile of code charitably called a 'game'.

I did START to TORRENT it (originally thinking "I'm not buying this crap, but I want to see what the fuss is all about"). But I stopped in a matter of minutes as my reality check kicked aside my rebellious pirate side and said I was being a monumental retard.
It's not worth it. Normally, risking a fine for crap unworthy of it's high price tag is worth it IMO. But this torrent got to about 4% and I cancelled it. I could more efficiently fill my computer with viruses from 50 warez websites and have a better time.

Yeah. I think the game turned me off piracy. I admit it. It's a very shoddy console port [http://www.modernwarfail2.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/xboxlive-party-ended-console-500x326.jpg], and I think 'Sonic Adventure DX' runs better than it does.

 

[Byers]

Presumably not everyone thinks a 5 hour campaign is worth 60 bucks. Go figure.

It's easy to condemn piracy when you get your games for free and make money playing them.

 

[Caliostro]

You don't know me and you don't know what articles or blogs I have and have not read, so I suggest you stop making completely baseless accusations and stick to the topic at hand.

Yet your angry response proves me right. Call it magic.

Your right, I can't give you any of these numbers but it doesn't matter because I'm not arguing about whether or not current piracy levels are having an effect, or how much of an effect they are having. Look back at every one of my posts in this thread. Not one of them has brought up or discussed that subject.

Next time you want to counter someones argument, make sure you're arguing about the same thing.

Now if you want to discuss the morality of pirating in general, feel free to rebut any of my previous statements in this thread.

Morality is an abstract concept with no real bearing on the real world. Why is it amoral? What defines morality? As I showed above you can't even objectively prove any harm is being done, so why is it amoral?

Nobody gives a shit about "morality". The damned thing is just a social construct created to more easily manipulate other people.

Next time you run out of arguments and wanna imply someone is steering off topic, make sure you're NOT actually arguing about the same thing.

 

[Georgeman]

Not surprising and not surprising. Given the hype, it would definitely be pirated to hell. But then, Activision had the brilliant idea to remove dedicated servers and force online activation on the game, effectively preventing rentals and resales. And of course, giving an even bigger boost to piracy. I have to laugh at those idiots who implemented those "anti-piracy" measures.

Oh, and yay for game ownership!

 

[sephiroth1991]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha oh sorry but Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Oh c'mon IW get your act together