Modern Warfare 2 Was 2009's Most Pirated Game
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
Dude! Shut up! You're ruining the argument by being overly forceful and belligerent in you points. You're not going to convince anyone with that attitude.Caliostro said:
That's one thing I wanted to touch on that I never got to last night. I've never liked the rebuttal of "Why pirate when you should stay legal and either buy it or at least rent it." Renting, while an excellent way to experience games Pre-internet/cartridge era, has become completely obsolete this day and age. Just ignoring the fact that PC games are not rentable, there are tons of disadvantages to renting that not only make piracy more attractive, but possibly morally responsible.Low Key said:
As you've heard me say my piracy mantra before "if you like it, buy it," the same applies to rentals as well. When you rent, you are spending money on a game that could have gone to the devs. If you like the game enough to play through it, then you have little reason to buy the game at all. The devs got nothing, and you got to play through a full game. This is worse than piracy, because now you have the full experience of the game under you belt, and you did it legally, so there is no guilt-trip hanging over your head. Things might be different if the game industry had the ability to run game rental services so they would get a cut of the profits, but that's not how it works now. Someone is literally mooching off of the games industry's success, and it's done completely legally.
Another problem with renting is that it isn't cheap. It's tons cheaper than buying the game, but it still is something like $5 (I haven't rented in years. They still charge about that much, right?) for the next few days. With piracy, you can try the game out on your own time, and depending on the system you are playing it on, could cost you between $0 and $2 if you had to burn it to a Dual-Layer disk for the 360.
Lastly, there's late-fees. If you don't have a subscription service, you are going to have to return the game at some point. This takes more time and energy just to avoid paying more to a company that is mooching off of the industry. Obviously, the worst head-ache that you will ever deal with post-piracy is archiving the game on a burnable disk. Most though will just delete the game.
Anyway, I still recommend renting when it comes to other forms of media though. I'm pretty sure the movie industry banks on the rental industry working out for them, and half of the headaches that come with just finding the time to experience your rental just don't exist when watching movies. Hell, some game's intros are as long as other movies are.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm proving them wrong.Signa said:
...Some people go for a jog, others have a smoke, others collect stamps, I prove people wrong. I like doing it.
And what the fuck is a forum for if not to share opinions and argue?
Your attempt at a witty retort still proves nothing. Call it logic.Caliostro said:
I don't recall ever using the word "proof" in any of my arguments. As a matter of fact I have specifically stated that whether any harm is done is completely irrelevant.Caliostro said:
As I said before, lack of consequences does not equal lack of moral responsibility.
Morality has no real bearing on the world? Really? Ok then, lets just strip every person of their respective codes of ethics and responsibilities. Lets take things like honor, loyalty, dignity, and respect and throw them out the window. Can you honestly say the world wouldn't be any different? Give me a break.
Morals are self imposed, so I have no idea where you get the idea that they are "just a social construct created to more easily manipulate other people." The only thing I can think of that you are talking about is possibly social norms or perhaps religious views. Those are things that shape your actions based on reprisals and rewards. Morals are different. Morals determine what you can and can't do based purely on what you think is right. They are unique to each individual person and although they can't be proven (philosophers have been trying to do it for thousands of years with no luck) they can be sought out, and supported, by logical reasoning.
I will say again. None of my previous posts had anything to do with whether or not pirating was having any effect on the industry so, again, your original post had nothing to do with any of my previous comments.Caliostro said:
Verbally bitchslaping them isn't going to convince a hard-nosed anti-pirate.Caliostro said:
No, that's what the Internet is for, not the Escapist. You've been around here longer than me and I don't know how you've not realized that yet. And while I agree that it is fun to prove people wrong, you can do it without verbally *****-slapping people who are having a civil conversation. If they took the same tone with a high level of stupidity, then sure, *****-slap them, but I got Pyode to cool down, so it make you look like the douchebag.
First of all, that quote was in response to this.Royas said:
Also, it would still be wrong for you to copy that computer because I specifically built that computer to make money. I put hours of work into it, paid for all of the parts and software, perhaps I even burned myself with a soldering iron. If anyone who wants that computer can just come in and copy it, it's the exact same as if someone stole it. I'm still out the cost and time that I put into the computer.Nurb said:
Pyode said:
My ass not justifiable. For a version that's supposed to be superior to the Consoles, I am not willing to pay a fucking dime for that. And what's it matter? They already made so much money on the game anyway.
HOLY SHIT that took a long time to read. I liked how it took a different angle on piracy regarding the industry's habits more than the personal reasons pirates steal. I know that not everything you experience can be properly put into words, and the same might happen with a lot of people who are upset at the industry, but don't put those words to it. I could see this being especially true for the people who take what the industry gives them as the "norm" when there is other data to compare the norm to. I certainly wouldn't waste my time complaining about the norm if I feel it's the norm, even if I'm happier with whatever is not the norm. Hell, I could even see myself talking about how great the not-norm is while never pointing out what is bad about the norm.Nurb said:
The only issue I took with that article was his attack on Steam. I think he might have been basing his points on new games and not the old, cheap ones that I buy constantly, but personally, I feel that Steam is DRM done right. I want to run it on my PC because it rewards me for using it. No other DRM scheme does anything close.
If you have already made disgustingly high profit of said pc and it isn't actually worth $500,Id steal it.Pyode said:
Just for the record, i didn't pirate mw2 because i have better things to waste 6gb of bandwidth on. I own both mw and waw and they are very mediocre games at best.
Have i pirated stuff? Sure.If i get something that's worth buying i will happily pay whatever they ask for it, the problem is the sheer amount of complete tripe that is being funneled out these days far outweighs the games that are actually worth buying.
I own a few rather old titles,two of which date back all the way to 2001!These games can be had for around $10 on steam these days,have a very large player base and still get supported with patches and updates by the dev's, yet a severely broken game i purchased midway through this year for near 10 times the price has been left unfixed (and I'm sure will remain this way) and is not worth playing.
If they stop over charging for complete junk that gets little to no after sales support, I'm sure a lot of people will stop pirating.
Um.. excuse me? Since when are PC titles supposed to be superior to the consoles? What makes PC gamers so special that they deserve a better version?buy teh haloz said:
So you are telling me that you deserve to have my PC, even if you don't think it's worth the price? How does that work?dunxy said:
Let me say something that I have been saying in this whole time but I guess I need to say it a little bit more clearly.
Video games are a luxury item. Computers and TVs are luxury items. They are not necessary for your survival. They are not necessary for your happiness. As such you have no right to have them what so ever. These items are privileges. Privileges you have to pay for (literally). Until you pay for them, they belong to someone else. You have absolutely no claim or entitlement to these items. End of story.
I'm done with this thread. I have pretty much said everything I have to say on the matter and anything else would be redundant.
I would just like to thank those of you who remained civil and respectful. It was really fun debating with you guys. I haven't worked my brain muscles this hard in a long time and if feels good.
To those of you who weren't so civil. All I can say is, grow up.
Never at all did i say i deserved it,just that IF you had already somehow (how is up to your imagination) already made say $5000 of the PC and it wasn't in fact worth anything close to the $500 that i would steal it! And if you are trying to sell something worth way more than what it really is, you deserve to have it stolen.Pyode said:
If i had any desire at all to play mw2, I would indeed pirate it because i was so burnt by the last two incarnations and i don't at all think its worth the coin they charge for it.If mw2 was priced in the area i actually think it should be, say $20USD i would probably buy it just for a laugh even though i have very little desire to play.So have they lost a sale to me due to piracy, oh no. Have they lost a sale to me due to their own GREED? Yes sir thank your mother for the rabbits.
And don't try to harp on about how much games cost to make, even at $20 these people would still make MASSIVE amounts of profit.
Piracy wont kill game developers, their own greed and desire to overcharge for games that are really only betas and worth a lot less than what they try to charge for them will.
I know I said I wasn't going to participate in the thread anymore, but I wanted to clarify some things in response to your post.Hope Chest said:
I'll use the example of Maslow's hierarcy of needs because I am more familiar with it. The self-actualization tier is essentially happiness, which is why I specifically used happiness as an example in my post.
The thing is that, yes, people need entertainment to stay mentally-healthy and productive as person. The point I am trying to make is that no one specific item is essential to that. Just because you would rather play a video game or watch TV than go to a library and check out a book for free, doesn't mean that you need that game.
There are ways to obtain entertainment and participate in a culture for free and, as such, no one has any right to take what they want just because they can't afford it or they think its not worth the asking price.
As for the food thing, the only way it would be OK to steal food would be in an emergency situation where your life or the life of someone else is at stake. Even then you still owe the person. It's not like 10 years down the line and if doing alright you can just tell the guy to fuck off when he says he wants to be reimbursed.
And PC players still wonder why many developers are moving to consoles, those damn pirates are ruining it for the rest of you, yes I know console pirates exist too, but the PC makes it way easier to pirate. Not that any of this matters to me, I didn't play MW2, nor do I plan to, illegally or otherwise.