"Monkey Selfie" Erupts into Copyright Battle on Wikipedia

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BlameTheWizards

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"Monkey Selfie" Erupts into Copyright Battle on Wikipedia



The Wikimedia Foundation claims that photographer David Slater does not own the copyright to the picture of the crested black macaque since the monkey grabbed his camera and snapped the photo itself.

Hundreds of selfies show up across social networks every day, but rarely do they lead to copyright suits. Or involve monkeys. Needless to say, there's a barrel-full of weird circumstances in the case of David Slater, who claims Wikipedia and its parent company cost him thousands for improper use of his photographs.

First, some background - in 2011, wildlife photographer Slater took a trip to Indonesia to take some pictures of crested black macaque monkeys. During this trip, one of the curious apes took hold of Slater's camera and took a couple pictures of itself. The photos went viral, as things involving monkeys on the internet generally do, and eventually ended up on two branches of the Wikimedia Foundation, Wikipedia and public domain photo hosting site Wikimedia Commons.

Slater asked Wikimedia to remove the photos, stating he owned the copyright, but Wikimedia had a different take. Since Slater didn't actually take the monkey's picture, there is no copyright to enforce, they stated, and they may use them freely.

In speaking with the Huffington Post, Slater said he was "angry" and "aggravated" by Wikimedia's actions, before accusing Wikipedia's editors of having "a communistic view of life."


"It's potentially being run by people with political agendas," Slater said of Wikipedia. "The people who are editing it could be a new Adolf Hitler or a new Stalin ... They're using whatever suits their agenda."

He urged people to stop using Wikipedia. "It's important to tell people that Wikipedia should be not used as a source of truth," he said.


A spokeswoman for Wikimedia sent the following statement to the Huffington Post on the matter:


We take these assessments very seriously, and researched both sides of the argument. We didn't think the monkey owned the copyright -- instead, our assessment was that there's no one who owns the copyright. That means that the image falls into the public domain.

Under US law, for example, copyright claims cannot vest in to non-human authors (that is, non-human authors can't own copyrights). It's clear the monkey was the photographer. To claim copyright, the photographer would have had to make substantial contributions to the final image, and even then, they'd only have copyright for those alterations, not the underlying image.

Because the monkey took the picture, it means that there was no one on whom to bestow copyright, so the image falls into the public domain.


In a separate interview with the BBC, Slater estimated he had lost somewhere in the neighborhood of £10,000 in income from the photo being made public domain. The debate over the picture resurfaced earlier this week after the Wikimedia Foundation published its first transparency report, following the lead of other tech companies like Google.


Source: <a href=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/06/monkey-selfie_n_5654752.html>The Huffington Post, <a href=http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-28674167>BBC

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SKBPinkie

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Oct 6, 2013
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This is fucking great.

Seriously, one of the lines here in an official statement (by an actual spokesperson) says "It's clear the monkey was the photographer."
 

RJ Dalton

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Aug 13, 2009
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SKBPinkie said:
This is fucking great.

Seriously, one of the lines here in an official statement (by an actual spokesperson) says "It's clear the monkey was the photographer."
I don't know if I should be angry or sad. But I do know I'm laughing my ass off.
 

Jamash

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Jun 25, 2008
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BlameTheWizards said:
First, some background - in 2011, wildlife photographer Slater took a trip to Indonesia to take some pictures of crested black macaque monkeys. During this trip, one of the curious apes took hold of Slater's camera and took a couple pictures of itself.
You make it sound like a casual accident in which the monkey just happened to grab his camera and accidentally pressed a button (like the Elephant that took a selfie when it picked up someone's dropped phone).

David Slater's main argument is that it took him a lot of effort and planning to set up those shots and to encourage the monkey to take a selfie. First it took him days of living with the monkeys to ingratiate himself with the pack and to be accepted as one of their own, as a pack member (or at least as not a threat), then he carefully composed the shot, set the camera up on a tripod and ensured it would take a good, in focus and well composed self portrait when the button was pressed, then finally he encouraged the monkeys to press the button, the last piece in the puzzle and arguably the least skilled and important aspect of the whole endeavour, more of a formality than anything.

I think that attempting to disown a photographer from the fruits of their labours because they didn't physically press the button that took the shot is disingenuous and could set a troubling precedent for all photographers that employ automatic or remote recording techniques. A lot of the best wildlife and nature photographs are captured by cameras that employ motion sensors or timers to take pictures where it would not be practical for the photographer to physically press the button for a single shot, but that doesn't detract from all their skill and effort in setting up the shot beforehand.
 

Scorpid

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Jul 24, 2011
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Who trys to sue Wikimedia? Will you sue Sesame street than Mr Rogers next?
 

Yal

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Dec 22, 2010
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Jamash said:
David Slater's main argument is that it took him a lot of effort and planning to set up those shots and to encourage the monkey to take a selfie. First it took him days of living with the monkeys to ingratiate himself with the pack and to be accepted as one of their own, as a pack member (or at least as not a threat), then he carefully composed the shot, set the camera up on a tripod and ensured it would take a good, in focus and well composed self portrait when the button was pressed, then finally he encouraged the monkeys to press the button, the last piece in the puzzle and arguably the least skilled and important aspect of the whole endeavour, more of a formality than anything.
That's not exactly the story he gave [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8615859/Monkey-steals-camera-to-snap-himself.html] originally:

"They were quite mischievous jumping all over my equipment, and it looked like they were already posing for the camera when one hit the button.

"The sound got his attention and he kept pressing it. At first it scared the rest of them away but they soon came back - it was amazing to watch.

"He must have taken hundreds of pictures by the time I got my camera back, but not very many were in focus. He obviously hadn't worked that out yet.
If he can prove the photo was orchestrated, not happenstance, he ought to win the court case. I'm not sure Wikimedia was really in the wrong by taking story at face value, though.
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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Wow. This is almost as hilarious as SOE hosting a Planetside 2 tournament at SOE Live.

And how realistic is it that hes claiming £10k damages? When the photo went viral he had effectively lost control of it whether he admits it or not.
 

CriticalMiss

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Jan 18, 2013
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I for one hope that the monkey sues both Wikimedia and Slater, if only those shitty copyright laws didn't deny hard working monkeys of their intellectual property rights!

In speaking with the Huffington Post, Slater said he was "angry" and "aggravated" by Wikimedia's actions, before accusing Wikipedia's editors of having "a communistic view of life."
Classy. The best way to win an argument is to shout louder, if that doesn't work then accuse your opponent of being Hitler/Communists/The Devil/French (delete as appropriate).
 

Dimitriov

The end is nigh.
May 24, 2010
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Jamash said:
BlameTheWizards said:
First, some background - in 2011, wildlife photographer Slater took a trip to Indonesia to take some pictures of crested black macaque monkeys. During this trip, one of the curious apes took hold of Slater's camera and took a couple pictures of itself.
You make it sound like a casual accident in which the monkey just happened to grab his camera and accidentally pressed a button (like the Elephant that took a selfie when it picked up someone's dropped phone).

David Slater's main argument is that it took him a lot of effort and planning to set up those shots and to encourage the monkey to take a selfie. First it took him days of living with the monkeys to ingratiate himself with the pack and to be accepted as one of their own, as a pack member (or at least as not a threat), then he carefully composed the shot, set the camera up on a tripod and ensured it would take a good, in focus and well composed self portrait when the button was pressed, then finally he encouraged the monkeys to press the button, the last piece in the puzzle and arguably the least skilled and important aspect of the whole endeavour, more of a formality than anything.

I think that attempting to disown a photographer from the fruits of their labours because they didn't physically press the button that took the shot is disingenuous and could set a troubling precedent for all photographers that employ automatic or remote recording techniques. A lot of the best wildlife and nature photographs are captured by cameras that employ motion sensors or timers to take pictures where it would not be practical for the photographer to physically press the button for a single shot, but that doesn't detract from all their skill and effort in setting up the shot beforehand.
I gave this some thought, and I don't think (even if this version of his story is true) that he should have the copyright. The act of photography which can make it an art form or from which a photographer can derive a claim of ownership is the capturing of an image. It's that actual act of capturing the image which exercises authorship. And that requires the photographer to control when the image is taken. If he had set up the camera on a timer or had activated it remotely then obviously he would have ownership of the image, but in this case I don't think so.

From another viewpoint it's the camera manufacturer who puts in the most work to design and build a camera, but clearly they don't own the copyright to every image taken by one of their cameras. Arguably the designer and manufacturer does all the hard work before a photographer uses one to simply take a picture.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

(Insert witty quote here)
Sep 10, 2008
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Jamash said:
BlameTheWizards said:
First, some background - in 2011, wildlife photographer Slater took a trip to Indonesia to take some pictures of crested black macaque monkeys. During this trip, one of the curious apes took hold of Slater's camera and took a couple pictures of itself.
You make it sound like a casual accident in which the monkey just happened to grab his camera and accidentally pressed a button (like the Elephant that took a selfie when it picked up someone's dropped phone).

David Slater's main argument is that it took him a lot of effort and planning to set up those shots and to encourage the monkey to take a selfie. First it took him days of living with the monkeys to ingratiate himself with the pack and to be accepted as one of their own, as a pack member (or at least as not a threat), then he carefully composed the shot, set the camera up on a tripod and ensured it would take a good, in focus and well composed self portrait when the button was pressed, then finally he encouraged the monkeys to press the button, the last piece in the puzzle and arguably the least skilled and important aspect of the whole endeavour, more of a formality than anything.

I think that attempting to disown a photographer from the fruits of their labours because they didn't physically press the button that took the shot is disingenuous and could set a troubling precedent for all photographers that employ automatic or remote recording techniques. A lot of the best wildlife and nature photographs are captured by cameras that employ motion sensors or timers to take pictures where it would not be practical for the photographer to physically press the button for a single shot, but that doesn't detract from all their skill and effort in setting up the shot beforehand.
Where did you get all this? Because [user]Yal[/user]'s news article (dated 11 of July 2011) is a little different.
 

Alterego-X

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Nov 22, 2009
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I'm not sure what his end game is anyways. It's a digitalized photograph, it's not like he can just delete it from the Internet, without suing the thousands of news sites that now cited the picture. (and honestly, not even if he does sue them).

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
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
19,316
0
0
Slater's attempt to slander Wikipedia is some truly excellent comedy.

"They are COMMIES! They might be sheltering HITLER! Their website is full of LIES!"
 

Alterego-X

New member
Nov 22, 2009
611
0
0
Jamash said:
I think that attempting to disown a photographer from the fruits of their labours because they didn't physically press the button that took the shot is disingenuous and could set a troubling precedent for all photographers that employ automatic or remote recording techniques.
To be honest, I wouldn't mind if ALL photographs would be Public Domain.

I'm sure that there are photographers who put a lot of work into their content, but the raw action of photography itself, is *not* a creative process, compared to how even the shittiest novel's writing, or the shittiest video game's coding, is.

With billions of photographs taken all the time all around the world, and making up a large part of our online communication as they can be duplicated with a single copy+paste, it is simple not realistic to treat them as anything else than pieces of communication, the simple and obvious recording of facts with no intent at original creation.

If some people want to pursue it on an artistic level, that's all right. Some people also design cloths, or invent recipes on an artistic level too. And they are getting by without those being copyrightable.

The "art of photography" is not some endangered activity that needs massive regulatory protection and financial incentivization, any more than "the art of cooking" is.
 

Raziel

New member
Jul 20, 2013
243
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0
Its an interesting argument on wikipedias side. And this doesn't seem like they were out to rip anyone off. Especially as Slater has told multiple version of events about how the monkey took the photo. That the animals were mischievous and did it accidentally or that he carefully staged it to get the monkeys to take photos. That hardly helps his credibility.

And him comment "It's potentially being run by people with political agendas," Slater said of Wikipedia. "The people who are editing it could be a new Adolf Hitler or a new Stalin ... They're using whatever suits their agenda." Just makes him seem like a crackpot.

I'd say he has an uphill battle winning this lawsuit.
 

Jamash

Top Todger
Jun 25, 2008
3,638
0
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Ed130 The Vanguard said:
Jamash said:
BlameTheWizards said:
First, some background - in 2011, wildlife photographer Slater took a trip to Indonesia to take some pictures of crested black macaque monkeys. During this trip, one of the curious apes took hold of Slater's camera and took a couple pictures of itself.
You make it sound like a casual accident in which the monkey just happened to grab his camera and accidentally pressed a button (like the Elephant that took a selfie when it picked up someone's dropped phone).

David Slater's main argument is that it took him a lot of effort and planning to set up those shots and to encourage the monkey to take a selfie. First it took him days of living with the monkeys to ingratiate himself with the pack and to be accepted as one of their own, as a pack member (or at least as not a threat), then he carefully composed the shot, set the camera up on a tripod and ensured it would take a good, in focus and well composed self portrait when the button was pressed, then finally he encouraged the monkeys to press the button, the last piece in the puzzle and arguably the least skilled and important aspect of the whole endeavour, more of a formality than anything.

I think that attempting to disown a photographer from the fruits of their labours because they didn't physically press the button that took the shot is disingenuous and could set a troubling precedent for all photographers that employ automatic or remote recording techniques. A lot of the best wildlife and nature photographs are captured by cameras that employ motion sensors or timers to take pictures where it would not be practical for the photographer to physically press the button for a single shot, but that doesn't detract from all their skill and effort in setting up the shot beforehand.
Where did you get all this? Because [user]Yal[/user]'s news article (dated 11 of July 2011) is a little different.
I got this from a recent BBC article:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-28674167 said:
"I became accepted as part of the troop, they touched me and groomed me... so I thought they could take their own photograph.

"I set the camera up on a tripod, framed [the shot] up and got the exposure right... and all you've got to do is give the monkey the button to press and lo and behold you got the picture."
It does seem like he has changed his story, although I wasn't aware of his previous version of accounts.

I suppose this could make the precedent even worse for wildlife and nature photographers, that is if his most recent version of events that he is arguing his case on and in which he is embellishing his own involvement, is defeated in court, and sets a legal precedent for all future photography copyright claims.
 

NuclearKangaroo

New member
Feb 7, 2014
1,919
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"It's potentially being run by people with political agendas," Slater said of Wikipedia. "The people who are editing it could be a new Adolf Hitler or a new Stalin ... They're using whatever suits their agenda."

He urged people to stop using Wikipedia. "It's important to tell people that Wikipedia should be not used as a source of truth," he said.


holy godwin's law batman, it reminds me of this



yup, sharing knowledge is basically like being one of the worst mass murderers in the history of human kind, honestly hitler means nothing at this point
 

Ten Foot Bunny

I'm more of a dishwasher girl
Mar 19, 2014
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lacktheknack said:
"They are COMMIES! They might be sheltering HITLER! Their website is full of LIES!"
We really should sue the Moon for harboring Hitler these past 70 years at the secret Nazi base. Extradition NOW!

On the subject of the picture, I'm kind of torn. I understand where both sides are coming from, but I lost all sympathy for the photographer when he alluded to a vast political conspiracy to deny him a paycheck. Invoking Hitler and Stalin was more than a little tacky - good luck to him in his crusade to convince people to abandon Wikipedia after that.