Mother found guilty of manslaughter for letting her son commit a school shooting

[CaitSeith]

In case you wonder which school shooting it refers to, it's the 2021 Michigan school shooting.

Jury finds Jennifer Crumbley, the Michigan school shooter’s mother, guilty of manslaughter

A jury finds a Michigan school shooter’s mother guilty of manslaughter in the deaths of four students.

apnews.com

Despite the son having been in trial as an adult for the shooting and sentenced to lifetime in jail, his parents have each been facing their own involuntary manslaughter trials for letting the shooting happen. The mother, Jennifer Crumbley, has been declared guilty of the charges, establishing a new precedent in court.



"Don't blame X for the school shootings; blame the parents" indeed...

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

From what I understand of the story the kid was exhibiting troubling behavior for years. Teachers had brought up his issues to the parents and the kid himself had openly asked them for help. The parents never took it seriously, and then bought him a gun. Yeah, I think a significant amount of responsibility rests on them given that they actively enabled the school shooting.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Mommy was too busy playing with her horses and her boy-toys to pay attention to her son. I have to wonder if she made sure he could get his hands on a gun so he'd go take his problems out on others and she wouldn't have to be involved anymore.

 

[Piscian]

It's a pretty unique case, where the evidence of the parents negligence is surprisingly extreme, leaving little room for interpretation. They tried to pull him out of school that day because they were afraid he would go off and the parents refused to take him. The gun perspective is almost incidental.

I think it's going to put guns rights advocates in a bit a pretzel as they've said its people not guns, personal responsibility over "nanny state". It would not surprise me if they ultimately support this as precedent. He's a minor so the "personal responsibility" is on the parents for enabling him.

One factor I don't is that, when you buy a gun you do have a legal obligation inform if you are in your right state of mind and go through the background check process. I'd have to dig through the case but I wanna say they, the parents, circumvented those checks. That would make them accountable.

Where it's gonna get real tricky is going forward what is going to be the criteria for parental negligence. This time it was crystal clear, what happens next time when the school doesn't warn the parents or there were signs, but the parents just missed them within reason?

I would like to see this gain moment. Put the fear of god into gun owners about responsibility for their firearms which then maybe drives some decent gun control legislation.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Where it's gonna get real tricky is going forward what is going to be the criteria for parental negligence. This time it was crystal clear, what happens next time when the school doesn't warn the parents or there were signs, but the parents just missed them within reason?

That's where the "beyond a reasonable doubt" part of a guilty verdict comes in.

I do think that a lot of school shootings by children are definitely caused by an unreasonable level of negligence by the parents, especially if the kid steals a gun from their parents to carry out the attack. The only way that a kid should be getting access to a gun (outside of a controlled environment like a shooting range, hunting trip, etc.) is if they killed the parents to take the gun. The whole excuse of finding the parents' gun, or finding the keys to the gun safe should never be considered reasonable and should not absolve the parents of their negligent actions.

If parents have a gun in their house and they do not take the precautions necessary to prevent their child from accessing that gun then whatever happens (homicide, suicide, accidents, etc.) are on them.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I'm fine with that ruling as long as the fact is that the parents completely didn't even attempt to store the gun somewhere safe.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

One factor I don't is that, when you buy a gun you do have a legal obligation inform if you are in your right state of mind and go through the background check process. I'd have to dig through the case but I wanna say they, the parents, circumvented those checks. That would make them accountable.

Buying a firearm with the intent to hide the fact that the ultimate recipient will be someone else is called a "straw purchase" and is a felony under US federal law.

 

[Gordon_4]

I'm fine with that ruling as long as the fact is that the parents completely didn't even attempt to store the gun somewhere safe.

Well according to the submissions by the defence, the gun safe's combination was 0-0-0-0 (I suspect that is the default one, its usually something like that for combination locks) which for my money means it may as well have been in an airing cupboard.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Well according to the submissions by the defence, the gun safe's combination was 0-0-0-0 (I suspect that is the default one, its usually something like that for combination locks) which for my money means it may as well have been in an airing cupboard.

I guess the hospital I work for is liable for any laptops from WOW carts getting stolen because the combination to get them out of the cart is the default 000.

 

[Gordon_4]

I guess the hospital I work for is liable for any laptops from WOW carts getting stolen because the combination to get them out of the cart is the default 000.

There might be some civil liability yes. But then again a laptop is not a handgun.

 

[BrawlMan]

In case you wonder which school shooting it refers to, it's the 2021 Michigan school shooting.

Jury finds Jennifer Crumbley, the Michigan school shooter’s mother, guilty of manslaughter

A jury finds a Michigan school shooter’s mother guilty of manslaughter in the deaths of four students.

apnews.com

Despite the son having been in trial as an adult for the shooting and sentenced to lifetime in jail, his parents have each been facing their own involuntary manslaughter trials for letting the shooting happen. The mother, Jennifer Crumbley, has been declared guilty of the charges, establishing a new precedent in court.



"Don't blame X for the school shootings; blame the parents" indeed...

I'm from Michigan! Why didn't you call me sooner? Just kidding!

I do not feel bad for either parents. They knew what was up with their kid and chose to do nothing. No different from that mother in Texas when her 18-year-old son shot up all those school kids. She knew he was mentally unstable and did nothing. Though the authorities and cops are full to blame on that tragedy and disaster. Back on topic: Michigan does not screw around when it comes to gun laws. I do have problems with my home state, but at least there are people who actually try and do the job that they're supposed to do.

 

[Cheetodust]

It's a pretty unique case, where the evidence of the parents negligence is surprisingly extreme, leaving little room for interpretation. They tried to pull him out of school that day because they were afraid he would go off and the parents refused to take him. The gun perspective is almost incidental.

I think it's going to put guns rights advocates in a bit a pretzel as they've said its people not guns, personal responsibility over "nanny state". It would not surprise me if they ultimately support this as precedent. He's a minor so the "personal responsibility" is on the parents for enabling him.

One factor I don't is that, when you buy a gun you do have a legal obligation inform if you are in your right state of mind and go through the background check process. I'd have to dig through the case but I wanna say they, the parents, circumvented those checks. That would make them accountable.

Where it's gonna get real tricky is going forward what is going to be the criteria for parental negligence. This time it was crystal clear, what happens next time when the school doesn't warn the parents or there were signs, but the parents just missed them within reason?

I would like to see this gain moment. Put the fear of god into gun owners about responsibility for their firearms which then maybe drives some decent gun control legislation.

I would also assume, god I hope I'm right, that there's also an age limit on owning a firearm right? So presumably his parents had to claim it was for them when they bought it?

 

[BrawlMan]

I would also assume, god I hope I'm right, that there's also an age limit on owning a firearm right? So presumably his parents had to claim it was for them when they bought it?

In most states and in michigan, you have to be the age of 18 to legally own a firearm and carry a license. Obviously, you have to get the gun license first, and take a class. You get a certificate when you pass, then you have to register for a gun ID, if you want to continue. He's an adult now, but they tried him as an adult, even before he turned 18.

 

[Ag3ma]

I would also assume, god I hope I'm right, that there's also an age limit on owning a firearm right?

There might well be in some hellhole states where it's hard to find a Real American and kids are indoctrinated by pornography and atheism.

 

[Schadrach]

I would also assume, god I hope I'm right, that there's also an age limit on owning a firearm right? So presumably his parents had to claim it was for them when they bought it?

There might well be in some hellhole states where it's hard to find a Real American and kids are indoctrinated by pornography and atheism.

My state has some of the most lax gun laws in the country. Our laws for carry are 18+ for open carry, 21+ for concealed carry, with an exemption for lawful hunting and transport to/from a hunting site. That's it. We also have no permit, background check, waiting period or firearms registration required when buying a handgun from a private individual. And only a handful of people disqualified from legally possessing firearms:

• Persons convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.
• Individuals discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
• Individuals adjudged mentally incompetent or involuntarily committed to a mental institution.
• Illegal immigrants.
• Addicts or unlawful users of alcohol or controlled substances.
• Some individuals subject to a domestic violence protective order, in certain cases.

 

[Thaluikhain]

And only a handful of people disqualified from legally possessing firearms:

To add to that, in various parts of the US, muzzle loaders don't count as firearms. So you can get a muzzle loader revolver. Not great for a shooting spree (but on some models you could swap cylinders for one already loaded), but you could murder someone with a gun.