Mount & Blade: With Fire & Sword Review/Impressions

AlternatePFG

New member
Jan 22, 2010
2,858
0
0
This is my first attempt at a review, so any criticism or advice would be very much appreciated.

[HEADING=1]Mount and Blade: With Fire and Sword[/HEADING]



[HEADING=2]Background Info[/HEADING]
For those of you who are unaware of the games, Mount & Blade is series of Action-RPG's for the PC. Previously, there was the original Mount & Blade that was released in 2008 and a standalone expansion Mount & Blade: Warband that was released last year. It?s rather hard to explain the basic gameplay of the games, think of it as similar to Total War and other similar RTS?s with a world map and different factions but instead of having RTS gameplay, it drops you down into the battlefield and has you fight and command your troops directly. There are some strategy aspects to the games, but it?s far from being an RTS, most of the strategy comes from picking the right kind of units to put in your army and where you put them on the battlefield. The combat is somewhat realistic, as you can?t take more than a few hits before going down and melee damage is dependent on how much momentum you have going when you hit your enemy.

Behind the combat, there is a rather basic leveling system, where you can level up your character and put points into your attributes (basic stats like Strength), skills (stuff that affects other aspects of the gameplay) and proficiencies (how well you can use different kinds of weapons). You can recruit units from villages, and other places and they have their class tree where they?ll upgrade to stronger units. There is absolutely no story to be had in these games, it?s all about making your own story, and there are a lot of options on how to make money and play the game. You can be a trader, you can sell prisoners that you capture in combat, you can become a lord in another one of the games factions, and later in the game you can start your own kingdom and conquer other ones. It?s about as much of a sandbox as you can get in an RPG. Both games are rather unforgiving but you can change many aspects of the games difficulty in the options menu.


Personally, I am a huge fan of those games. They have a great modding community, and I have easily dumped 100+ hours into both of them combined. To be fair, I?ve spent most of my time on the various mods that expand the games gameplay into new settings (there?s a large variety of mods that add whole new campaigns and worlds for you to play in) but the base game is still very solid and fun.

The previous two games have had a medieval setting along with weaponry that was appropriate with the setting (swords, crossbows, bows and the like). The setting was fictional, but there wasn?t any fantasy stuff like magic. When With Fire & Sword was announced, it was a definite change in the setting. Not only is it set in historical Eastern Europe, but its storyline is also based on a novel of the same name. Now there swords and bows, but now there are muskets and grenades added as well. It seemed like an interesting change in the games mechanics, it?s less of a sandbox than before and it actually has a plot. Does it really work in the end? Well, it really depends on what you're looking for...

(Now the reason I?m calling this a review/first impression is because I haven?t experienced every major change to the game, and some parts are pretty badly bugged so I can?t continue.)


============================================================================================

The basic combat and such is pretty much the same as Warband. Ride around on your horse, slashing at the enemies who surround you, and order your units using different commands. Like I said earlier, it?s all very solid and fun, even if it was a bit annoying to get insta-killed by an enemy running you through with a lance (usually it?s your fault anyway). With Fire & Sword adds muskets, pistols, and grenades to the mix, and it still retains swords, halberds, lances, and bows from Warband (though they look more appropriate to the time period). It seems though that there is less of a variety in the types of weapons in this game.

The changes take some getting used to, but they do make the combat more risky and fun.​
The guns themselves make a huge difference in combat tactics in this game. They can easily take down you, or any other unit in one direct hit, even with a decent amount of armor. To make up for that, they have a very long reload time and are not as accurate as bows. Unfortunately, bows become less useful because of this, because even though you can shoot repeatedly without having to reload every shot, the damage output of the guns is simply too powerful (seriously, it downs most units in a direct hit easily). You can?t really fault the game for being realistic when it comes to the muskets and such but regardless it seems like it?s pretty much always preferable to at the very least keep a pistol as a sidearm instead of another ranged weapon. Your units will drop and die a lot faster, which gets rather annoying as even the most basic infantry units in this game are a lot more expensive than the ones in Warband. Still, it does make combat more tense and you really have maneuver yourself in order to dodge the crossfire. It?s better than in Warband where you could pretty much just shrug off most arrow fire as long as you had a decent shield and a heavy horse. It?s more frustrating than Warband?s combat, but at the same time winning battles feels more rewarding. Regardless of any complaints I have balance wise, I have to say that downing an enemy with a single shot of your gun is incredibly satisfying.

One of my major complaints with the game is that many features from Warband are missing. While it is an expansion, it expands in a different direction from the original than Warband did. There?s a lot less options in this game, for example no longer can you marry a noblewoman in order to become a noble, nor can you create your own kingdom (which is the best part of Mount & Blade in my opinion). Also, the ability to play as a female character is gone (didn?t have a huge difference in Warband but having the option was nice). The reason for this is probably to accommodate the games story, so it?s understandable why it is this way. It?s just that it kinda kills the whole reason I love Mount & Blade, the fact that you aren?t really constricted by a story and you can do whatever the hell you want.

The game map is pretty huge (this is about a third of it, maybe less) but it's pretty bland and samey, at least in comparison to Warband. There's no snowy or desert areas on map and it's relatively flat.​
I don?t want to give the impression that they only removed features from the game, because they did add some useful stuff. Instead of recruiting random people from different villages, you can now recruit mercenaries in mercenary camps. There about 5 camps in the game, each one for the major different factions in the game, and there is an endless supply coming from each of them. What is a really nice feature is being able to upgrade the mercenaries? specific equipment which costs a ton of money but any other mercenary you recruit of that type at that camp with have that bonus. For example, you can give your marksman muskets instead of bows if you like. The problem is though, that the game does not explain this feature well to you, and soon you find out that it also makes the price of recruiting them shoot up as well. There are also far too few camps in the game, so when you have to trek back to replace a lost unit of that particular type, it?s a pain.



You can also now upgrade companions (special characters that you can recruit in the game that have their own skill sets, allow you to change their armor/weapons and do not die) from cities, which is a nice feature because it was always a pain to level them up through battling, when all you wanted was an improvement in a particular skill.



Now as for the much touted story? Well, I?d love to talk about it if it wasn?t currently bugged at an early stage for me. I hardly got any insight into the games plotline simply because it is impossible for me to continue. I?ve been doing what I?ve normally been doing in any M&B campaign and that?s recruit soldiers, go around selling stuff, and basically build my force, but I wish I could actually see the story. It seems to be rather interesting from the start but I can?t go any further. In fact, the game is in a very buggy state right now it seems. The skybox in the tutorial and other maps are missing for me, certain dialogue options don?t even work, and there are random flashes when going into battle. It all seems rather unpolished at this stage, and while the previous games weren?t exactly polished either this is just a bit too buggy for my tastes. (This will probably be updated when they fix this, or if they fix this)

Some areas of the game look pretty good...​
The visuals for the Mount & Blade series have always been rather mediocre but in exchange for that you have huge battles with hundreds of units with minimal lag. I haven?t noticed many improvements in this game over Warband (at least in comparison to Warband which was a whole engine change) The guns aren?t very detailed which is a disappointment but It?s still functional. Some of the locations look nice, while others look awful. The cities are now rather large and open, but some of the interiors look awful (particularly the tavern at Moscow). Most of the cities blend together which isn?t anything new to the series, but some cities have some landmarks (there?s the Kremlin at Moscow, though it looks bad).


...and others just look downright awful.​
The basics of Warband's multiplayer are still here. There's the basic deathmatch modes you can find in other mutliplayer games, but there's a good variety of modes. The siege mode has a team defending a castle while the other tries to take it from them, while there's a mode called conquest, which basically has players trying to take specific points on a map and a few other modes. It plays out like the battles in the campaign, but there's a neat mechanic that lets you buy equipment at the beginning of battle, and the better you do during the fight, the better armor and weapons you can buy (kind of like Counter Strike). There is no persistence though, no leveling your character in multiplayer nor is there a campaign map.

They did expand upon multiplayer in With Fire and Sword. There?s a good amount of maps added, and there?s a new mode called ?Captain Team Deathmatch?. I have not been able to play it yet, but it?s been described as having two players fight each other with an army of AI bots to order around like you would do in the campaign mode. Personally, I was not a fan of Warband?s multiplayer, I didn?t think that they way they did it really suited the series well. The combat is fun, but there was some balancing issues, as there wasn?t a limit to how many people could play a particular unit, so there was situations where everyone would choose cavalry. It seems to be the same way, but with marksman instead. It?s still fun and I?m glad that it is one of the few multiplayer games that I have played that didn?t decide it needed a half assed leveling up system but still I feel like it has long ways to go before actually being something I?d come back to. I always sort of wished for some sort of cooperative or versus campaign mode with an actual map but it would be rather hard to implement.


Regardless of my criticism multiplayer can be pretty fun.​

Overall, I feel like Of Fire and Sword is a mixed bag. On one hand, it does try some new things for the series, such as having an actual story. However, It just seems like in order to reach that story, they have sacrificed some of the freedom that made the Mount & Blade games so replayable and fun to begin with. It?s a different experience to be sure, but it just does not really work for the series. The guns are a good addition, even with all the problems they bring. With a bit more balancing I?d say the actual combat part of the game is better than ever. I give it a decent recommendation, as it?s really cheap (15$) for the amount of content in the game. Still, if you are new to the Mount & Blade games, I?d really suggest buying Warband instead (don?t bother with the original, Warband is better in every way). Warband is about twice as much (30$) but overall it is just more replayable, and more open. That?s not even mentioning the huge modding community it has (If you?re looking for a good mod, I?d suggest getting Prophesy of Pendor. It?s really damn hard, so play a bit of Native before getting it but it?s so much fun.) Hopefully in the next Mount & Blade game, they can find a way to add a story but still keep that freedom that made the other games so great.

(I don't know why the apostrophes have turned into question marks, maybe it's because I copied this from a Word document I was working on)
 

Yoh3333

New member
Feb 7, 2011
159
0
0
It was decent.
I would point out that i personally think it is way too early to make a review. The game is quite lengthy and the mods are (hopefully) going to come out of the woodworks soon enough.

Personally i am loveing the game so far. It've hooked me once again and i actually like the implementation of Guns. They get quite annoying during sieges but i like them. Haveing a line of musketeers looked much better and felt more satisfying than a line of archers shooting dull projectiles.
The combat is amazing as ever but i've experienced some hit detection issues online (not SP)
The inability to properly lance an enemy online is frustrateing beyond belief.
Quests have been improved but only slightly, the quests are the same but the special missions do mix things up abit. My problem was however that if your at war with the nation from which the quest giver resided in you can't complete it.
As a scandinavian i sided with Sweden early on. Then i got a quest about helping the cossacks (who i'm enemies with) luckily i didn't actually have to talk to any Cossacks, it was all from Moscow. but then, Sweden decided to go to war with them and hindering me from turning in my quest. I have yet to complete it after 40 days (game time) at the same time i got a quest from that french dude to assist a moscow-guy attack Vilna, no problem, except for Sweden still being at war with them... It's annoying because i seems like i can't get any more special quests because i allready got 2.

Also, progress is slow as hell. 80 days into the game and i still have NEVER had the ability to upgrade my troops to anything above Recruit. It might simply be that i don't know how but still. It's frustrateing to have weak soldiers all the time.
Add onto that the annoying part of haveing an army capped at 57. Makes me too weak to face the weekest of vassals from other countries, and too big to be able to catch deserters and the like.

I still realy love the game. My favorite so far. There is a balancing proglem in the MP though, Muskets ontop of a fortress in siege battles are amazinglt strong. i got more kills than i've ever had by just looking down and picking off guys from the safety of the castle walls. I'm sure it can be avoided since people were being dumbasses and running close to where the deadly musketeers were :p

I would recommend it to ANYONE! :D
 

SwimmingRock

New member
Nov 11, 2009
1,177
0
0
I just bought this and am currently downloading. Decided to get it based on TotalBiscuits first impressions vid, but he didn't even mention multiplayer. You mention a new multiplayer mode and explain the main problem with the old modes, but don't mention what the old modes are. For people who played the previous games, the answer would be obvious, but write the review assuming people have no idea what you're talking about. Because I didn't and now want more info on multiplayer than you provided.

Hope that helps in regard to criticism.
 

AlternatePFG

New member
Jan 22, 2010
2,858
0
0
SwimmingRock said:
I just bought this and am currently downloading. Decided to get it based on TotalBiscuits first impressions vid, but he didn't even mention multiplayer. You mention a new multiplayer mode and explain the main problem with the old modes, but don't mention what the old modes are. For people who played the previous games, the answer would be obvious, but write the review assuming people have no idea what you're talking about. Because I didn't and now want more info on multiplayer than you provided.

Hope that helps in regard to criticism.
Thanks, I appreciate the criticism.

I'll update the review in a bit with the details.

Yoh3333 said:
I still have NEVER had the ability to upgrade my troops to anything above Recruit. It might simply be that i don't know how but still. It's frustrateing to have weak soldiers all the time.
I believe that is a bug, don't quote me on that though.

Edit: Alright, basic info on the multiplayer is above the old paragraph describing the multiplayer.
 

HauntedQuiche

New member
Aug 28, 2009
5
0
0
I have to say the lack of ability to play as a female character REALLY put me off this game. I somehow managed to miss this before I bought it and now wish I'd never bothered. Several of my friends have decided they aren't going to bother as a result of this and...well...why? I mean, really why? Just because they had some story they wanted to tell?

If M&B: Warband is anything to go by the less story-telling these devs try the better. They can't write to save their lives. Certainly the bits of Fire & Sword I've played indicate this hasen't gotten any better. It's a stupid decision executed badly.
 

Bobbity

New member
Mar 17, 2010
1,659
0
0
This is pretty good, and definitely keep it up. It seemed like your thoughts were a little bit muddled early on, but you got over that pretty quickly. I haven't been following the game very closely, so a lot of the stuff in here is new to me, and I'm a tad sceptical. I don't see this game as being much more than a free mod, except that it offers slightly more, and costs twenty bucks. :p

It'd be much more tempting if they could shake up the gameplay more than a little, and make everything more exciting.
 

WolfThomas

Man must have a code.
Dec 21, 2007
5,292
0
0
Heh, I was actually going to write a review after playing it, but I don't think I'd be able to go to the same valiant efforts as you did.

I'm no stranger to With Fire and Sword, I've read the book translated from Polish. Last holidays I watched with my father all three films straight (Fire and Sword, The Deluge, Colonel Wolodyjowski). It's like 11hrs I think all up. In Polish. With subtitles. By the end of that experience I had an intense distrust of Cossacks and judged a man's merit by the length of his moustache.

I've also played a lot Mount&Blade, I started at I think .751, back when it was an ugly shell containing a glimmer of potential. I played through the amazing period of innovation that was .808 with it's dozens of great mods, everything from swinging from ropes on a pirate ship to smashing a Neanderthal's brains out with a rock, I've done it in this game. Then I played days straight of v1.0 and the same again when Warband came around. I've conquered Calradia, twice.

So needless to say, it's quite disappointing that after looking forward to this weekly (I can only play on friday nights now due to committments) that I have to say, I do not care for it that much.

It feels like for every step forward, they took two steps back. There's some neat stuff like the wagon trains. But alot of the freedoms, options and style of quests found in Warband are missing, the gun combat is not really that exciting, I already used everything from an arquebus to assault rifle in mods. The manner of upgrading troops is frustrating as they cost more and quickly die.

If I had some more time to invest I might enjoy it, but at the moment it feels like unnecessary work.
 

Areani

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2008
232
0
21
I tried the demo and while I came upon a few frustrations and bugs, I still thought it was a lot of fun. The world felt a bit more alive than in Warband, and the firearms certainly made for some interesting battles.

About your review, a solid description of the game and it's features, and your informal tone makes it a good and interesting read. Perhaps you should have held the review off a bit until the bugs had been ironed out and you had been able to play a bit more, but as a review of your experience with the game so far works fine too.
 

flaming_ninja

<!NULL>
Aug 25, 2009
83
0
0
I think well have to wait until Taleworlds have released a couple of patches to see the true potential of this game.

Nice review by the way. :D
 

Imitation

New member
May 7, 2011
1
0
0
To be honest i was a bit disappointed when i first started playing. The introduction of firearms (without an epic mod) is what really hooked me into buying it, and the 10% off sale on steam made me feel special for saving $1.

The mandatory tutorial is i guess a decent idea, giving new players the run down of basic controls but should be able to be skipped after completing it the first time. What they dont tell you in the tutorial is the new features of the game including recruitment and caravans. I spent a good 10 minutes going to each down wondering why everyone hated me too much to join me.

I know im not great at the game, but from the first bandit killing quest i it was a hell of alot harder then warband. I was feeling in the Warband kind of mood, charging head on rambo style rifle a blazin when all of the sudden my health bar instantly drops. I thought the whole one shot kill with guns was a tutorial only occurence. After a bit more swerving to avoid the hale of bullets i was eventually able to finish the quest.

After this quick lesson in how not to go about playing the game, i looked around the map a bit to see what was going on. Im not sure if im the only person with the glitch where water and mountains appear to be sky, but i got a bad feeling about the game. I also ran into the "invisible town" glitch, which isnt exactly game breaking, just a problem that honestly should not exist.

The identical graphics to Warband is also a bit of a let down. I didnt expect anything ground breaking, but i expected more then redesigned towns and tweaks to menus.

Besides the ridiculous bugs, the game itself isnt so bad. I now see why this ones was released for just $15. If they patch these problems i may consider giving it another attempt, but for now im sticking with Warband.
 

AlternatePFG

New member
Jan 22, 2010
2,858
0
0
Imitation said:
I know im not great at the game, but from the first bandit killing quest i it was a hell of alot harder then warband. I was feeling in the Warband kind of mood, charging head on rambo style rifle a blazin when all of the sudden my health bar instantly drops. I thought the whole one shot kill with guns was a tutorial only occurence. After a bit more swerving to avoid the hale of bullets i was eventually able to finish the quest.
What makes it so hard is that on any difficulty other than easy, you're given a terrible small sum of money to start with, and on normal was only able to recruit like 3 units at the start and that was it (If I remember correctly, it was like 100 thaler). I've just been starting it on easy and then changing the difficulty back manually.

I rather miss the origin feature too.
 

Cenequus

New member
Jan 31, 2011
385
0
0
What people have to take in consideration is that this game wasn't made by the same developer as the original M&B and Warband it only uses the same engine. Also this version of with fire and sowrd is an western release the game was release in east europe pretty much at the same time as warband. Also fire and sword is more of an historical reenactment of the Deluge war rather than a sandbox game(the campaigns-depending which side you choose -are actually really great with huge twists in story).

Gameplay: Many people complained at launch about the guns beeing so OP and armour beeing so good vs melee weapons. I too scratched my head at start by the huge difference but after crawling a bit the forums I found it's supposed to work this way to mark the passing to gun warfare. It's a delicate period,usually even history accurate games place you either in a full medieval period or in a already gun dominated era. The deluge war is the bordeline of the two(even if my winged hussars still dominate the enemies gun power). Only historical thing that is missing are cannons but I guess that would have made the infantry even more obsolete.

Hope I added something to the review.
 

Tsunimo

New member
Nov 19, 2009
855
0
0
I loved it, as I have Warband before it and plain Mount and Blade before it.
However it seems like they took a lot out of it, and it makes me a little sad...
They took out a lot of classes, now instead of multiple class branches for your recruits, all you can do is upgrade them with the unit name followed by a 'level' of training (Recruit -> Experiences -> Veteran -> Elite). Also, perhaps this was just me being an idiot, but I cant knock out prison guards to take the cell keys anymore, and so I can't save Lords from prisons.

Additionally, the list of ladies to court is completely absent from the game, and I don't think you can court ladies/lords at all anymore...
I'm running out of transitions between complaints so I will start listing them off by a number:

1)I can't take make 'heroes' into Lords for my Nation, or I have yet to figure out how to, and I've gotten pretty far.

2)The map is boring and plain, a flat, empty grassland...

3)It seems to go... slower than Warband, there seems to be more busy work to do, and often times, when I would go to find a good quests, no matter where I when, ever mayor in Sweden really, REALLY wanted some cows to get to Azaq-Dale, or whatever it is called.

Overall, I'd recommend it, but if you have an extra 15 bucks, buy Warband instead.
 

Cenequus

New member
Jan 31, 2011
385
0
0
Tsunimo said:
I loved it, as I have Warband before it and plain Mount and Blade before it.
However it seems like they took a lot out of it, and it makes me a little sad...
They took out a lot of classes, now instead of multiple class branches for your recruits, all you can do is upgrade them with the unit name followed by a 'level' of training (Recruit -> Experiences -> Veteran -> Elite). Also, perhaps this was just me being an idiot, but I cant knock out prison guards to take the cell keys anymore, and so I can't save Lords from prisons.

Additionally, the list of ladies to court is completely absent from the game, and I don't think you can court ladies/lords at all anymore...
I'm running out of transitions between complaints so I will start listing them off by a number:

1)I can't take make 'heroes' into Lords for my Nation, or I have yet to figure out how to, and I've gotten pretty far.

2)The map is boring and plain, a flat, empty grassland...

3)It seems to go... slower than Warband, there seems to be more busy work to do, and often times, when I would go to find a good quests, no matter where I when, ever mayor in Sweden really, REALLY wanted some cows to get to Azaq-Dale, or whatever it is called.

Overall, I'd recommend it, but if you have an extra 15 bucks, buy Warband instead.
Yes you're missing alot,first this has nothnig to do with warband it's a stand-alone expansion of an historical re-enactment war(damn long phrase :)).So while Calradia was a fantasy world the setting here is as accurate as possible for that period and the war that took place. Also while there is still some sandbox involved there is an actual campaign. You can become vassal of one faction and experience a different campaign(i think only the Cossacks don't have a campaign),they are really good actually.

As for troops I see you only have mercenary troops,to have the actual national armied you have to become vassal to a lord and use the barracks to train actual soldiers. Upgrading different building etc will provde you with additional benefits etc. not gonna spoil you anythnig.
 

WolfThomas

Man must have a code.
Dec 21, 2007
5,292
0
0
This game gets a whole lot easier when you work out how to use their trade system. At the start of the game score a few grand from tax and debt collecting missions, don't give it back to lords yet. Perhaps borrow some from a merchants guild in a town centre. Buy a half a dozen velvet (mainly Cossack areas), get a companion with good trade to find out the most profitable trade route for velvet, normally to a Swedish area. Sell the merchant a single velvet in the cossack town, talk to the Mayor about arranging a caravan for velvet to the most profitable town. Pay for the largest possible one. Make sure you have about 40-50 cheap mercenary cavalry (should only cost like 250 a week). Have plenty of food. Use ctrl+space to speed up the time progression and once you make it to the city, you'll make a shitload of cash 50k-100k. Pay off acumulated debts, upgrade troops weapons and armour, get some decent stuff for yourself. Rinse and repeat. Once you make a cool million invest in a bank that is in a safe area if you want to join a faction. You'll make about 140k a month, more than enough for all the stuff you want.
 

Kvaedi

New member
Jul 7, 2011
113
0
0
I truly like this game. Many of the bugs have been fixed now, which makes it much better. I find the combat to be exhilarating-How many games are realistic enough that a single lucky shot can spell doom for any unit on the field? Next to none. This difficulty is what I find makes the game fun, and downright exciting, knowing that my cavalry charge could very well end by a lowly peasant's musket if I'm not careful. While you absolutely will die at the start of the game, as you acquire better armor, soldiers, and level up a bit, you will learn how to survive on the field. In this game, you might be the hero, but you're still just human.

While there are very few mods right now, there are several in development.

Now, I wouldn't suggest this game to everyone. If you're really into history, check it out. If you love Warband, go ahead and get it. $15?! that's well worth it. But if you're new to Mount and Blade, pick up Warband, play the game, play the mods-there's everything in every time period from the very beginning of human existence to the Peloponnesian War, 7th century England, the Renaissance, the American Civil War, straight into World War Two and even the future. There's even a persistent world multiplexer mod that turns the game practically into an MMO. Really, with all these mods you can get a hundred completely different games for the price of one.