MS Confirms Online Connection, Game Borrowing and Used Game Details

Maeshone

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Having read this, I will still tentatively be getting an Xbox One. Since I'm always online with my consoles anyway, that requirement doesn't really impact me unless my internet is down for days at a time, which has never happened in all the years I've had this service.

I am a bit iffy on not being able to lend my friends my games, but not enough to put me squarely into "won't buy"-territory. I will not be picking up on launch however, as the launch of anything always online is always unstable. Depending on what games they show at E3, I wait longer or shorter. If they do show Mirror's Edge 2 I will be very happy.
 

MrWunderful

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You know what, I am curious to see where sony goes after this info was released.

I still am 50/50 about getting an xbox1. None of these problems really bother me all that much aside from the trading games in. I want to hear more about that because I trade almost all games I am done playing in. I never trade with friends, and always have an internet connection- but maybe I am the small demographic that they are aimed at.

With that being said, is it not the publishers who decide if games can be lent/traded in? Why is everyone so mad at microsoft about this? They said there will be no fee attached either, at least that is what I am getting from the article.

They also state that up to 10 members of your family may play from one library:
Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend?s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.
That is an interesting idea. What is stopping people from saying their 9 best friends are family, and everyone can share libraries?
 

The Artificially Prolonged

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One time borrowing and only to friends who are on friends list for more than 30 days. Then you can only trade in games at participating retailers, in other words only retailers big enough to be on MS's radar. This all seems needlessly complex and inconvenient for the user and after seven years of ps3 firmware updates I have no patience for consoles making me jump through hoops before I can play games, which if the once a day called home is anything to go by could also be a problem with the Xbone. The Xbone seems to want to take my biggest bug bear with current gen consoles and run with it.
 

Colt47

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tippy2k2 said:
What a giant joke. I love my 360 (see my profile for proof) but there is no way in hell that I'm going to have all of the draw-backs of a PC (or worse; at least Steam let's you do it once every 30 days and I'm not required to have a camera staring at me every time I want to play a game) with none of the benefits like Steam sales and the ability to Mod.

Please please please Sony, help me keep my faith in the consoles and walk through the giant opening that Microsoft just left you. I'd really rather not become a PC gamer but if I'm losing all the convenience I get with a console, why bother with a console anymore?
Let's both hope that Sony doesn't pull a Microsoft or I got a feeling it's handhelds and the Wii U for the next gen.
 

StriderShinryu

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MrWunderful said:
You know what, I am curious to see where sony goes after this info was released.

I still am 50/50 about getting an xbox1. None of these problems really bother me all that much aside from the trading games in. I want to hear more about that because I trade almost all games I am done playing in. I never trade with friends, and always have an internet connection- but maybe I am the small demographic that they are aimed at.

With that being said, is it not the publishers who decide if games can be lent/traded in? Why is everyone so mad at microsoft about this? They said there will be no fee attached either, at least that is what I am getting from the article.

...

That is an interesting idea. What is stopping people from saying their 9 best friends are family, and everyone can share libraries?
I was thinking the same thing as I was reading that. I really don't know how they are going to restrict this but, given their other controls, I doubt it's just like adding people to a Friends and Family call list on your cell service. Should be interesting to find out though.

Personally, I doubt I'll be getting a One but this info doesn't necessarily turn me totally off either given my personal use of my currently owned 360. My net connection is very stable and I don't make a habit of trading games with friends. I also still think it will be interesting to see just how much Sony's policies disagree with these. It's still very possible that MS is getting all of the flak simply because they've come out and said it first.
 

Genocidicles

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MrWunderful said:
With that being said, is it not the publishers who decide if games can be lent/traded in? Why is everyone so mad at microsoft about this?
Because they implemented the system in the first place. Some of the blame lies with any publisher that chooses to go along with it, but Microsoft shouldn't have given them the chance at all.
 

Doclector

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So, the pre-owned stuff isn't quite as bad as we expected...which isn't saying much considering what we expected. It's still shit. It's still a deal breaker.

Oh, and I love how they're all like "If your internet connection fucks up for a few days, you don't have the right to play your games until it's fixed.

BUT YOU CAN STILL WATCH TV, SO DON'T WORRY!"

Yeah, still a big ol' fuck you over here.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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That's absolutely awful.

Basically, it's a console that requires you to always be online, and which blocks used games, but instead of taking the blame for it microsoft are taking the cowards way out and saying "well, we let the publishers decide." Fuck that bullshit. We all know that publishers are money grubbing assholes, and we all know that the majority of them, EA, Activision, etc. are going to jump right onto that. The fact that Microsoft game publishers to tools to disallow used games, and force always on connections is sickening, and I will have no part of it.

Fuck you Xbox One, you shall not tempt me to buy you, no matter how many Halo games you publish. As of this point I'm done with you and I'm done with all your franchises.
 

Zeh Don

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h4xor555 said:
...God damn, I'm still going to get one. These publishers can do literally anything to us.
Man, they took away your used games, not your fucking balls. Stand the fuck up, son.

This confirms virtually every major fear people have - though, somehow, the used games situation is actually worse than we feared. EA and Activision Blizzard will simply not allow used game sales for their titles. Period. And, any small Publisher needing to maximise profits from a new title will follow suite. So, they pretty much just killed used games entirely.

Anyone - anyone - who buys this piss-poor excuse for a console is basically killing the industry.
 

MrWunderful

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StriderShinryu said:
MrWunderful said:
I was thinking the same thing as I was reading that. I really don't know how they are going to restrict this but, given their other controls, I doubt it's just like adding people to a Friends and Family call list on your cell service. Should be interesting to find out though.

Personally, I doubt I'll be getting a One but this info doesn't necessarily turn me totally off either given my personal use of my currently owned 360. My net connection is very stable and I don't make a habit of trading games with friends. I also still think it will be interesting to see just how much Sony's policies disagree with these. It's still very possible that MS is getting all of the flak simply because they've come out and said it first.
I agree. What are people going to say if Sony matches some of Microsoft policies? Especially some of the more outspoken members of this forum who have been saying "Sony will never do thaaaaaaattt"?

I know nobody wants DRM, and want to be able to trade used games. But I also feel that as time goes on policies will change and the industry will evolve.

I read a lot that physical media will be a thing of the past sooner than later (which I personally do not want). What is going to happen to all the people that want to trade games then? Will they just forget about it (similar to they way steam functions now, I believe) or still complain that now that the "console manufacturers" have done away with physical media they are just as money grubbing as ever because they have not implemented a new type of technology to allow us to do so?

I know people predict a crash and burn of this industry or whatever but I am going to choose to stay positive and look forward to what the future has in store for us. I hope to still be gaming when I am 80 years old.
 

MrWunderful

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Zeh Don said:
Anyone - anyone - who buys this piss-poor excuse for a console is basically killing the industry.
I don't agree with that at all. So what happens if all the sudden nobody buys any games, because we are all standing up for what is holy (in your opinion)? Its not like these huge publishers are going to go away and all these small publishers are going to rise up and take their place and NOT implement something similar. It would be a wonderful world if everything was done for the "love of it" but that is just not reality.

Genocidicles said:
MrWunderful said:
With that being said, is it not the publishers who decide if games can be lent/traded in? Why is everyone so mad at microsoft about this?
Because they implemented the system in the first place. Some of the blame lies with any publisher that chooses to go along with it, but Microsoft shouldn't have given them the chance at all.
I feel if Microsoft had told the publishers that they could NOT do that, then people would be yelling about how Microsoft is too controlling and draconian. Its kinda damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 

Genocidicles

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MrWunderful said:
I feel if Microsoft had told the publishers that they could NOT do that, then people would be yelling about how Microsoft is too controlling and draconian. Its kinda damned if you do and damned if you don't.
But that's how it is now.

I think more people would be happy to do what they want with their property rather than greedy corporations dictating how people get to use their own property.
 

aba1

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It is funny that they are forcing online and getting rid of used games when those are 2 of the few advantages consoles have over computers. What is the point of a console if it has all the downsides of a console and a computer and none of the good parts.
 

MrWunderful

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aba1 said:
It is funny that they are forcing online and getting rid of used games when those are 2 of the few advantages consoles have over computers. What is the point of a console if it has all the downsides of a console and a computer and none of the good parts.
Where did it say they were getting rid of used games?

Also, It depends on what your definition of a downside is.

For some, a downside is having to build a PC.
For some, a downside is having to mess with settings to get something to run smoothly.
For some, a downside is having to update drivers.

Its all subjective.
 

Bellvedere

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Well to be fair, this is a whole lot better than people were assuming... I'd feel a bit of a hypocrite to dish out total hatred for a system that essentially employs the same tactics as a service that I heartily embrace on PC. I know the arguments, that MS is removing a service for the Xbone that was available on the 360, Steam has had years of great service to build trust with consumers, and while I think that they are very valid arguments, it doesn't mean that I suddenly think the MS is the devil... In the interest of actually discussing the new information rather than regurgitating the same bile that came out with the initial xbone reveal:

The sometimes online policy isn't looking anymore attractive. I wish if they were going to do this that they'd at least go for the Steam model where you can spend as much time as you want offline but you do have to go online to register and update games. That being said, Steam has gone through some issues getting that working, and even then it's still not perfect. Hopefully that's something that they're considering in the future. It still won't help folks that can't connect at all, and it will still be inconvenient (though maybe slightly less so) to people that can't connect online without considerable effort, but it is more attractive to people that will sometimes have internet problems and possibly if there's any issues with the servers...

The details on used game trade are interesting. Especially the part where they're not "charging a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games". I figured that the whole disc registration and online connection was in order to get a share of the used game market. Does this mean that they've got another way to get in on it, or that they're not planning to at all? To be honest, if they're not at all, I'm a little disappointed. With all this speculation that the increase in profits could lead to more flexible pricing I was quite interested. It is also the best reason that I could see that PS4 would want to follow the same route of online and disc registration. Also if it's not about used games then it's about piracy? Is piracy on consoles really that big a deal? I thought it was fairly negligible especially in comparison to DS and PC...

I think the lending games scheme, while obviously still limited compared to what was previously possible, is fairly reasonable in principle. It essentially allows persons to demo games belonging to their friends. How much time you should get playing a game that you didn't pay for is debatable, especially if we are considering a lending only situation.

Colt47 said:
Oh okay, so Microsoft pretty much confirmed exactly what people didn't want with the whole lending games to a friend bit. That's just brilliant: how exactly do they tell if the person has been lent the game only once? Because he played the game only once? I'm getting the feeling the second the person plugs in another game and tries to go back and play the game he was lent, he is screwed.
Possible that you'll only get one play, but I'm betting since lending will involve some process they'll be able to track precisely how many times it's been officially lent and to whom. I think more interestingly will be whether both persons can play at the same time, whether the owner will be able to accidently kick the lender out of the game, whether the owner will be locked out of their game if the lender is playing it first (maybe leaving it on 24hours), etc. etc.
 

Zeh Don

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MrWunderful said:
...So what happens if all the sudden nobody buys any games, because we are all standing up for what is holy (in your opinion)? Its not like these huge publishers are going to go away and all these small publishers are going to rise up and take their place and NOT implement something similar. It would be a wonderful world if everything was done for the "love of it" but that is just not reality...
What is this? Did I say "boycott" every developer, publisher, indie, TV content producer, musician, director, film studio and accessory manufacturer who worked on Microsoft's "console"?

If the public accepts Microsoft's new console, then that's it. Publishers will have won their war against the consumer. Do you think, with absolute control over the entire industry, that this will somehow be of benefit to you?
Cheaper games? Why? They've killed off the second hand market. They never have to compete or lower sale prices. Ever.
Better games? Why? Their wonderful new system prevents you from getting rid of them. Review embargoes prevent you from knowing it's terrible until you've bought it, and then you're stuck with it. Forever.
More games? Why? Their brand new revenue stream ensures more money from less sales - which they'll simply pocket, as has been their stated intention for the past entire console generation.

Microsoft have created a console that makes the end user irrelevant. It's a Publisher's wet dream, and a consumer's nightmare. If you buy it, you're telling them "I don't want my rights! I don't want to own anything! I want DRM! More DRM on everything!"
The problem is Microsoft and their console. Anyone who buys it, is killing the industry. If you fail to understand that, then they're clearing selling to the right crowd.

 

Colt47

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Zeh Don said:
MrWunderful said:
...So what happens if all the sudden nobody buys any games, because we are all standing up for what is holy (in your opinion)? Its not like these huge publishers are going to go away and all these small publishers are going to rise up and take their place and NOT implement something similar. It would be a wonderful world if everything was done for the "love of it" but that is just not reality...
What is this? Did I say "boycott" every developer, publisher, indie, TV content producer, musician, director, film studio and accessory manufacturer who worked on Microsoft's "console"?

If the public accepts Microsoft's new console, then that's it. Publishers will have won their war against the consumer. Do you think, with absolute control over the entire industry, that this will somehow be of benefit to you?
Cheaper games? Why? They've killed off the second hand market. They never have to compete or lower sale prices. Ever.
Better games? Why? Their wonderful new system prevents you from getting rid of them. Review embargoes prevent you from knowing it's terrible until you've bought it, and then you're stuck with it. Forever.
More games? Why? Their brand new revenue stream ensures more money from less sales - which they'll simply pocket, as has been their stated intention for the past entire console generation.

Microsoft have created a console that makes the end user irrelevant. It's a Publisher's wet dream, and a consumer's nightmare. If you buy it, you're telling them "I don't want my rights! I don't want to own anything! I want DRM! More DRM on everything!"
The problem is Microsoft and their console. Anyone who buys it, is killing the industry. If you fail to understand that, then they're clearing selling to the right crowd.

I'm rarely bothered by other peoples spending habits, but as I stated in a previous thread, this console has to die a horrible death or we're looking at a really bad future.
 

Zeh Don

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Colt47 said:
I'm rarely bothered by other peoples spending habits, but as I stated in a previous thread, this console has to die a horrible death or we're looking at a really bad future.
Yeah, I completely agree. I have a care factor of zero towards what people do with their own money. But, I can only stand so much, ya know? :p
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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Zeh Don said:
MrWunderful said:
...So what happens if all the sudden nobody buys any games, because we are all standing up for what is holy (in your opinion)? Its not like these huge publishers are going to go away and all these small publishers are going to rise up and take their place and NOT implement something similar. It would be a wonderful world if everything was done for the "love of it" but that is just not reality...
What is this? Did I say "boycott" every developer, publisher, indie, TV content producer, musician, director, film studio and accessory manufacturer who worked on Microsoft's "console"?

If the public accepts Microsoft's new console, then that's it. Publishers will have won their war against the consumer. Do you think, with absolute control over the entire industry, that this will somehow be of benefit to you?
Cheaper games? Why? They've killed off the second hand market. They never have to compete or lower sale prices. Ever.
Better games? Why? Their wonderful new system prevents you from getting rid of them. Review embargoes prevent you from knowing it's terrible until you've bought it, and then you're stuck with it. Forever.
More games? Why? Their brand new revenue stream ensures more money from less sales - which they'll simply pocket, as has been their stated intention for the past entire console generation.

Microsoft have created a console that makes the end user irrelevant. It's a Publisher's wet dream, and a consumer's nightmare. If you buy it, you're telling them "I don't want my rights! I don't want to own anything! I want DRM! More DRM on everything!"
The problem is Microsoft and their console. Anyone who buys it, is killing the industry. If you fail to understand that, then they're clearing selling to the right crowd.

And this right there is an excellent summary of how I feel about the whole affair. The Xbone and MS can go to hell, as far as I'm concerned. And if Sony goes in the same direction, there will be no next gen for me, but you know what? I don't care, I'm satisfied with what I have right now.